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Old 02-03-2011, 07:16 AM   #221
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Kakashi Hatake

Movement Speed: 8.5/10
Attacking Speed: 8.5/10
Reaction Speed: 8.5/10
Durability: 8/10
Stamina: 7/10
Strength: 7.5/10
Intelligence: 9.5/10- Only Shikimaru would have a 10.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:20 AM   #222
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Kakashi already has one made for him.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:43 AM   #223
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

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No way is her attacking speed 10. Not when Kakashis is 8. Lower it to about 8. Her paper is fast but not THAT fast.

Also, her intelligence is currently above The Sannins and Kakashis. She's clever enough I suppose, but nothing exceptional. Put her intelligence on a 7.
This is with Prep Konan. Her Explosion was fast enough to catch half of Madara. Her intelligence is a ten because once again she has prep.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:52 AM   #224
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This is with Prep Konan. Her Explosion was fast enough to catch half of Madara. Her intelligence is a ten because once again she has prep.
Her Paper Ocean Technique is not particulary fast, It just has a massive radius. Madara couldn't escape it because of its sheer size. And the explosion which hit Madara only hit him because he did not know she had imbued her paper attacks with explosives. They weren't particulary faster than him, iirc.

Prep or no prep, discovering Madaras weakness and preparing billions of sheets of paper is not putting her higher than the Sannin and Kakashi on intelligence, lower it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:52 AM   #225
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

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Kakashi already has one made for him.
I know, I just thought my one was more accurate lol.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:53 AM   #226
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

THen debate why yours is more accurate and the other one is wrong.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:22 AM   #227
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

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Really? Despite there being a much more logical explanation? This isn't like you.
I don't come into the BG to have people tell me how ridiculous I'm being, so I won't respond to you at all until you at least attempt to see my point of view. Do you think it's fun for me to debate with someone who can't refrain from telling me eight times (I actually counted BTW) that I make no sense? I'll quote you for each time.
Quote:
a ridiculous theory
Quote:
doesn't seem to make a pick of sense
Quote:
seems foolish to me
Quote:
Wut?
Quote:
makes MUCH MUCH more sense
(This useless to support your arguement as well as implying my side makes no sense, something that I don't appreciate)
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I'm sorry, but you're making no sense.
I'm sorry, but a pre-appology doesn't make an insult any less insulting.
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If you can't see that, then I really don't know what to say.
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Really? Despite there being a much more logical explanation? This isn't like you.
Now, right now I appologize for anything I've said to you that was anything like this. If it's not too much trouble for you, I'd like you to appologize as well, because if this is all I can expect from debating with you I simply won't.

Just to prove I'm not hypocritical, or at the very least not purposely hypocritical, I'll try and see things from your point of view. The turtle supports several massive animals and people and could only be flipped by the combination of a giant explosion and the pull from a large snake, which itself is meant to be a much stronger version of an already powerful snake. The idea that Onoki could lift such a turtle on strength alone, considering both his lack of notability in the field of Taijutsu and his bad hip, is seemingly ridiculous. He constantly refrains from moving because of his condition. While he lacks in strength-augmenting jutsu or techniques that would allow him to transport objects or living creatures, he has shown use of a jutsu which would allow heavier objects or people (err, Akatsuchi?) to transport themselves from one location to another.

Now I shall counter the points I have made by myself. The turtle does support many animals of what must surely be large weight, and was only flipped by powerful jutsu, emphasizing the weight of the turtle. But, this only further proves Onoki's feat's worth. Onoki does have a bad back, but he doesn't refrain too terribly often from physical effort. When first introduced, he insisted he carry his own luggage, and he physically attacked Kabuto when sent as reinforcement to the turtle island. Onoki may not be noted for his strength, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's weak, as when Mifune described him while picking the Allied Shinobi Forces leader (albeit under Danzo's control) he stated only that Onoki would be seen as weak due to his old age and mobility problems. Furthermore, the Levitation Technique is in fact a jutsu that allows heavier objects to be transported from one place to another, but its operative effect is self-transportation. Rather than making someone weightless, as then force would be ineffective, it allows someone to levitate at consistent height off of the ground using chakra. Using it on an inanimate object should, in theory, have no effect whatsoever, and using it on the turtle should have a similar outcome. If the turtle were flying itself, it would not have been stated that Onoki was transporting it and Onoki would not have had his hand on it. If the turtle was moving itself, Onoki would not have struggled under the effort it would require to direct the turtle, meaning he must have lifted it himself and must be carrying it himself. As the Levitation Technique likely has no weight-lowering effect, Onoki would still have to use his own strength to lift the turtle and then transport it.

As a counter-point, due to Onoki's small stature and build, it's illogical for Onoki to have the amount of muscle mass required to lift such a large turtle. As, by my own logic, all things in fictional works follow the laws of real life unless stated otherwise, Onoki can only be at either the maximum known strength someone of his size could be at in the real world, or his strength could only be at the level of strength of any ninja who doesn't use strength-augmenting jutsu. Due to the fact that no explanation exists to sufficiently explain the feat, including the Levitation Technique, it's merely an inconsistency, as neither the logic set in place by the Real World nor the Naruto world itself can explain it.

Despite this, for the sake of fictional debate I believe we should treat it as a feat of strength, because realistically speaking by its presentation it was more likely than anything else a feat of strength, and despite Real-World impossibilities, if Onoki were truly to face another character in battle this strength would aid him greatly and shouldn't be disregarded towards the worth of his character. It may be hype, but hype is also a part of a character's strength, and in my opinion should be realistically included. Hype should only be disregarded when put against specifically proven exceptions, as one exception may not apply to all characters by normal logic. The logic of the fictional universe must always apply unless against proven exceptions, as with every rule there is an exception and with most there is typically but one.

Do I make sense now, or do I need to type another long post?
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:34 AM   #228
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Can I have a summery of the post above?
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:42 AM   #229
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

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Can I have a summery of the post above?
I'll try, but I do suck at them.

LT said I was being ridiculous while countering the points I made to defend her own arguement. I didn't like that. I asked her to try seeing things from my point of view, and to prove my point tried to see things from hers. I gave several points to show how Onoki would not be able to lift the turtle, then countered each to show how the only explanation is that he did, then proceeded to say it was logically impossible by both real-world logic and Naruto logic for Onoki to have lifted the turtle. I then proceeded to state that, while this is true, it should be disregarded for debate on Onoki because even though it was an impossibility, it was presented as a feat of Onoki and realistically, if Onoki were to fight anyone, such a feat would apply in battle. It's not like if Onoki existed we could simply tell him, "Sorry, you can't do this, we haven't proven it yet." I then asked LT if I had now made sense or if I had to write another WoT.

This summary was likely thrice as long as it actually had to be. For an explanation, see "Wall of Text Syndrome" in my signature.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:44 AM   #230
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

I actually read that post. =D

I gotcha now bro.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:19 AM   #231
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Someone should make Naruto Sage mode stats.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:53 AM   #232
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Quote:
Just to prove I'm not hypocritical, or at the very least not purposely hypocritical, I'll try and see things from your point of view. The turtle supports several massive animals and people and could only be flipped by the combination of a giant explosion and the pull from a large snake, which itself is meant to be a much stronger version of an already powerful snake. The idea that Onoki could lift such a turtle on strength alone, considering both his lack of notability in the field of Taijutsu and his bad hip, is seemingly ridiculous. He constantly refrains from moving because of his condition. While he lacks in strength-augmenting jutsu or techniques that would allow him to transport objects or living creatures, he has shown use of a jutsu which would allow heavier objects or people (err, Akatsuchi?) to transport themselves from one location to another
This ^

If I come across as aggressive of whatever, then I'm sorry. But I'm not trying to be. I'm just surprised you , someone who is on a whole intelligent and clever when it comes to debates, would actually consider something as, like you said - ridiculous, as this.

Quote:
Now I shall counter the points I have made by myself. The turtle does support many animals of what must surely be large weight, and was only flipped by powerful jutsu, emphasizing the weight of the turtle. But, this only further proves Onoki's feat's worth. Onoki does have a bad back, but he doesn't refrain too terribly often from physical effort. When first introduced, he insisted he carry his own luggage, and he physically attacked Kabuto when sent as reinforcement to the turtle island. Onoki may not be noted for his strength, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's weak, as when Mifune described him while picking the Allied Shinobi Forces leader (albeit under Danzo's control) he stated only that Onoki would be seen as weak due to his old age and mobility problems. Furthermore, the Levitation Technique is in fact a jutsu that allows heavier objects to be transported from one place to another, but its operative effect is self-transportation. Rather than making someone weightless, as then force would be ineffective, it allows someone to levitate at consistent height off of the ground using chakra. Using it on an inanimate object should, in theory, have no effect whatsoever, and using it on the turtle should have a similar outcome. If the turtle were flying itself, it would not have been stated that Onoki was transporting it and Onoki would not have had his hand on it. If the turtle was moving itself, Onoki would not have struggled under the effort it would require to direct the turtle, meaning he must have lifted it himself and must be carrying it himself. As the Levitation Technique likely has no weight-lowering effect, Onoki would still have to use his own strength to lift the turtle and then transport it
Onoki hurts his hip from carrying some basic luggage on his back ,iirc. And has to be carried to the Kage Summit. The fact he withstood an entire island on pure strength without snapping anything is a major major inconsistency. Therefore, it should be safe to assume. His levitation jutsu did 99% of the work. He apparently had to apply some sort of strength for unknown reasons, but as we can clearly see. He did not lift the whole thing with brute strength. Totally ridiculous. Also, when Onoki is referred to as being seen as weak - I believe its on a whole. [Ninjutsu etc. included] Not directly speaking about brute strength. Also, the turtle is not inanimate. Its a living being which can move. Again, Onoki could've been applying a degree of strength for unknown reasons to perhaps lead the turtle in right direction. But the Flight Technique means the user is capable of moving themself, it may not reduce any weight, that we know of - but an old man who struggles with luggage on his back - is not lifting an island hundreds of meters in the air and carrying it miles. We don't know why he kept his hand on the turtle. Perhaps because it wouldn't be able to fly for very long because of its weight is he had let go? Perhaps to lead it in the correct direction? I don't know. But as you said, its ridiculous to say he carried the thing himself with one arm. When he said his back was struggling, it could've been because he was holding his arm up for so long. Your arm does tend to hurt if you hold up for that long. After all - he did transport it miles. We can assume it was strength, or assume it was the levitation. But at the end of the day, theres no solid proof for either claim. My point is, its stupid to think he has that strength, and until its been properly proved he has such. I won't be agreeing.

Quote:
Despite this, for the sake of fictional debate I believe we should treat it as a feat of strength, because realistically speaking by its presentation it was more likely than anything else a feat of strength, and despite Real-World impossibilities, if Onoki were truly to face another character in battle this strength would aid him greatly and shouldn't be disregarded towards the worth of his character. It may be hype, but hype is also a part of a character's strength, and in my opinion should be realistically included. Hype should only be disregarded when put against specifically proven exceptions, as one exception may not apply to all characters by normal logic. The logic of the fictional universe must always apply unless against proven exceptions, as with every rule there is an exception and with most there is typically but one.
Then we agree to disagree. Its faar too ridiculous for me to believe. And with no solid proof. I'm not assuming hes that kind of strength.

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Old 02-03-2011, 01:34 PM   #233
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

So an old man with a very bad back, lifting an Island is no feat? Kind of a cheat really.
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:37 PM   #234
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Never fully proven. More likely to be his flying technique. See mass of posts for further details. Neither arguement has been fully proven in the manga.

But still, him using a flying technique makes more sense. Dont see how an old man like that who struggles with carrying luggage could carry an entire island with one hand. Its safe to assume he had to apply some form of strength as he was continually pushing his arm up.
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Old 02-03-2011, 02:28 PM   #235
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

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Originally Posted by deidara330 View Post
Despite this, for the sake of fictional debate I believe we should treat it as a feat of strength, because realistically speaking by its presentation it was more likely than anything else a feat of strength, and despite Real-World impossibilities, if Onoki were truly to face another character in battle this strength would aid him greatly and shouldn't be disregarded towards the worth of his character. It may be hype, but hype is also a part of a character's strength, and in my opinion should be realistically included. Hype should only be disregarded when put against specifically proven exceptions, as one exception may not apply to all characters by normal logic. The logic of the fictional universe must always apply unless against proven exceptions, as with every rule there is an exception and with most there is typically but one.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:02 PM   #236
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

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Someone should make Naruto Sage mode stats.
Not it :3
For obvious reasons <__<
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:20 PM   #237
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Naruto SM:

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9.5/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: 5.5/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Someone give the stamina a number. I didn't know what to base it off of. During SM or how he is when SM goes off
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:39 PM   #238
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

At least give Bee a 6 in intelligence or something, he's not that stupid and he's at least as smart as his brother. He only appears that way because he spends much of his time writing raps, which is only when he doesn't take the opponent seriously.

Edit: Along with this, Sage Jiraiya showed some incredible stamina, speed, and attacking speed feats, so I think he should get some higher stats.

Edit edit: What makes Ino smarter than Karin?
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:41 PM   #239
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yori View Post
Naruto SM:

Movement Speed: 9/10
Attacking Speed: 10/10
Reaction Speed: 9.5/10
Durability: 9/10
Stamina: ?/10
Strength: 10/10
Intelligence: 7/10

Someone give the stamina a number. I didn't know what to base it off of. During SM or how he is when SM goes off
Will Since Sage Mode is only 5 minutes, i guess it does not deserve even a 5.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:47 PM   #240
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Default Re: Battlegrounds Databook

I would put it at 5.5 or 6 thanks to the limit.

Not sure if this one has been made but whatever:
Darui
Movement Speed: 6/10
Attacking Speed: 8/10 (Casually stopped Sasuke with Water Wall)
Reaction Speed: 8/10 (See above)
Durability: 6/10
Stamina: 6/10 (I have no idea what these two are so I'll give him average)
Strength: 8/10
Intelligence: 6.5/10
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