New Battleground Rules

[BMC1994]

Remember naruto saying he was out of chakra just take that as an example of 'being out of chakra'

There are really tons of moments of characters claiming they would be 'out of chakra' but thats never the case because they would be 1.dead and 2. They still pump out a good 2-3 jutsu and 10 for narutom after they have stated it.

also remember sasukes taboo 3rd chidori which would supposedly kill him because his limit was 2 and meanwhile now both sauce and akakshi are spamming chidoris. Sasuke case would be his growth but kakashi is a grown man his chakra could not have increased so much.

It like saying (while in some hot place without water) ' I would kill for some water' You probably wouldnt but its just to communicate that you are very thirsty. Just like out of chakara seems to have become the 'I am so tired' of naruto.

[shinigan no sora]

Yeah except here we have a comparison of life force draining. Which are completely different.

Its more like saying I'm bleeding out soon I won't even be abl to move and the person stumbling a few more yards


Another thing is that they aren't huge jutsu usually they're small or ones used to escape the situation

In naruto's case of throwing out ten jutsus he's different being a jinchuriki but this opens him up to deus ex machina as well seing as the only way he should be able to do such a thing would have been with kyubbi's help when until more recent chapters he didn't have control of kyubbi's chakra to use as a reserve as he does now

Its still deus ex machina. You need to learn that not everything that happens is a legitimat feat

[BMC1994]

Naruto is an uzumaki and even before that was stated to have a chakra pool x times larger then kakashi as a 12 year old child (or atleast 16 idk when they said it).

Thats not deus ex machina as narutos large chakra pool and fast recovery have been praised through out the manga. Its not something new that falls out of the sky. Naruto made clones before he made them battle before just now they are all powered up by kyuubi chakra mode. (And he already uses some of the kyuubi chakra in kyuubi chakra mode hence the name).

Really 90% of things of shounen can be deus ex machina. madara flipping edo tensei off , Obito surviving, Naruto meeting his mom/dad and thats just 2 of a list of +1000.

You have barely any feats left when you go all deux es machina.

[Uchiha Sora]

Summoning Jutsu takes way too much chakra to be used when you have little to none.

Sasuke pulled enough to summon manda AND put him in a sharingan genjutsu -.-

When right before that his sharingan flickered off cuz he couldn't keep it up anymore

[BMC1994]

When did summoning jutsu require alot of chakra i mean tsunade got bisected which would remove atleast half her chakra while the other half has been wasted on madara without result. Kisame used on the brink of death or atleast severe injury. Really where does it say summoning jutsu takes alot of chakra from what i have seen it does not take much and is 1 of the less taxing jutsu.

There is also nothing indicating that common sharingan genjutsu takes alot of chakra consering both itachi and sasuke spam it without consequences.

[shinigan no sora]

Originally Posted by BMC1994

Naruto is an uzumaki and even before that was stated to have a chakra pool x times larger then kakashi as a 12 year old child (or atleast 16 idk when they said it).

Thats not deus ex machina as narutos large chakra pool and fast recovery have been praised through out the manga. Its not something new that falls out of the sky. Naruto made clones before he made them battle before just now they are all powered up by kyuubi chakra mode. (And he already uses some of the kyuubi chakra in kyuubi chakra mode hence the name).

His large chakra pool is. Not. Because he's an uzamaki. Its because he's a jinchuriki. Chakra control is a trade mark of the uzamaki which is why several of them have been the nine tails vessel however that is something that they had to practice at. They simply have a natural penchan for it as well as sealing

Really 90% of things of shounen can be deus ex machina. madara flipping edo tensei off , Obito surviving, Naruto meeting his mom/dad and thats just 2 of a list of +1000.

You have barely any feats left when you go all deux es machina.

I explained the difference between deus ex machina and plot repair outliers in the korra v mustang thread. Go there and read it

Naruto going and meeting his parents counts as deus ex machina as does madara showing up

However obito survivng at least for now is not. Though it was completely pants on head retarded

Also what US said about sasuke

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Summoning has always required obscene amounts of chakra, one of the biggest reasons why Naruto using a boss summon at that age was treated as so special

people trying to defend the great snake escape are functionally ignoring established canon and that should be taken into consideration as you can only debate by consistent feats

[Wooster]

Sasuke has a scroll for Manda. Essentially it was prep to summon with a cheat i.e using chakra before hand to trap manda and seal him in a scroll.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog

Summoning has always required obscene amounts of chakra, one of the biggest reasons why Naruto using a boss summon at that age was treated as so special

people trying to defend the great snake escape are functionally ignoring established canon and that should be taken into consideration as you can only debate by consistent feats

True summoning was impressive, for a 12 year old naruto. His best competition was sasuke. Using kage bunshin used to be impressive. Its easy to say that summoning doesnt not take a large part of your chakra in the higher naruto tiers. And again there is tsunade using it while being bisected.

I am against the great snake escape (even without the other things he couldnt have summoning and used a genjutsu before being tagged by that explosion ) too just trying to convey what probably went through kishis head atm.

[Cult of Personality]

Scenario:
Deidara uses C0.
It charges.
It detonates.
Sasuke, standing may three feet away, watches this happen.
After the explosion has started, Sasuke summons Manda, genjutsus Manda, has Manda open his mouth, jumps in, has Manda close his mouth and desummons Manda.

In the time it takes C0 to reach him. After C0 has already gone off. A few feet away. While effectively out of chakra.

Kishi's head is filled with Uchihacest, no point in trying to convey what's going on in his head when what's going on his head is "SAWSKAY-KOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!11!"

[PuffPuffPanda]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

Scenario:
Deidara uses C0.
It charges.
It detonates.
Sasuke, standing may three feet away, watches this happen.
After the explosion has started, Sasuke summons Manda, genjutsus Manda, has Manda open his mouth, jumps in, has Manda close his mouth and desummons Manda.

In the time it takes C0 to reach him. After C0 has already gone off. A few feet away. While effectively out of chakra.

Kishi's head is filled with Uchihacest, no point in trying to convey what's going on in his head when what's going on his head is "SAWSKAY-KOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!11!"

U mad?

And Sasuke said they got hit by part of the blast, which is why Manda died.