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Old 01-27-2011, 05:23 PM   #481
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Default Re: Official Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Sasuke won that fight. His reaction time and skill was above Danzo. Danzo touched him a few times. While Sasuke killed him constantly. He binded Sasuke and yet Sasuke broke free due to his power. Shisui eye is not guranteed to work on sasuke. Considering Itachi killed shisui the sharigan must offer a defense.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:25 PM   #482
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2 Yay's and 1 Nay for Sasuke?
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:27 PM   #483
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Default Re: Official Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
Strength of genjutsu can't be scaled...what are you saying?
I am saying A can't defeat Sasuke genjutsu. Also it can be scaled. So you saying Kakashi genjutsu is as powerful as Itachi genjutsu. That is what you are saying. If you are implying all genjutsu are equal.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:36 PM   #484
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LOL, Shikamaura had a hard time thinking of a way out of it. Sakura has only been shown to disable things like Feather Illusion Justu which as VERY weak Gen Justu.
That was anime. Non canon. Sakuras dodged and countered faster things than kunai, shuriken etc. so Tentens attacks really have nothing going for her.

Sakura did indeed dodge many of the attacks on her own my dear. Such as when she dodges the sword slashes from the puppets by jumping on top of their swords, or when she smashes a puppet as it comes at her head on. Chiyo only helps some of the time. She counters Iron Sand Blocks without Chiyos help at all. Re read that match.

Shikamaru isn't a genjutsu type. Though he does have some skill at dispelling, as we see when he dispels the high level Jutsu Kabuto uses to knock out the entire Chunin Exam Civilians and Genin and Chunin. Only the Jonin and Sakura and Shikamaru are able to break out of it. Kakashi praises Sakuras genjutsu ability straight afterwards. Its safe to assume, that genjutsu was high level. It was ranked A ranked in terms of difficulty to learn too.


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Originally Posted by Kuromaki View Post
Someone made note that the ninja Kakashi's team were fighting were Kekkei Genkai users. And with Kabuto's complete control how would Pakura be able to use her tactical abilities, if that was really how she became famous.

The fireballs were fast enough to appear instantly when Pakura clashed with the guy. If Pakura aims for Sakura's blind spots it won't really matter anyway. I think she was shown running too, when the fireballs were there, so she could at least dodge one punch cause that's all she needs to do before the fireball behind Sakura takes effect.
I have no idea. Kakashi got famous for being having copied 1000's of jutsu. Which he has yet to show. Pakura could have gotten famous for tactical brilliance, but also been skilled in battle. Kabuto brought her back because she was smart, but used her combat to his advantage. Hell, Pakura could've been famous for getting to Jonin at a young age, or passing the Chunin Exams when she was 6. Or at best been famous for having a unique KG but not necessarily an immensely powerful one. Because as we see, its certainly unique. But nothing compared to other KG's like Kimimaros, Senjus, Uchihas etc.

Pakura created the fireballs as she moved at the Jonin. When her kunai clashed with his and she stood still, they went around him and hit him. And naw, arguement is purely based on hype Kuro. Just assuming she could dodge one of those punches based purely on her getting famous for an unknown reason, presumably for a never seen before KG is too loose. Sakura has some hype and lots and lots of feats. Causing Sasori trouble who faaar exceeds Pakura in skill is a massive disadvantage to her even without addition of feats.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:37 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil's Lawyer View Post
Sasuke won that fight. His reaction time and skill was above Danzo. Danzo touched him a few times. While Sasuke killed him constantly. He binded Sasuke and yet Sasuke broke free due to his power. Shisui eye is not guranteed to work on sasuke. Considering Itachi killed shisui the sharigan must offer a defense.
Nope. There were multiple interferences.

It was more equal since they were on equal terms for a while.

Danzo allowed himself to be killed to focus on hurting Sasuke and tricking him.

AKA Susanoo JUST HAPPENING to break free after being healed.

It'll work for reaction speed.

That's still shrouded in mystery
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:47 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare View Post
Nope. There were multiple interferences.

It was more equal since they were on equal terms for a while.

Danzo allowed himself to be killed to focus on hurting Sasuke and tricking him.

AKA Susanoo JUST HAPPENING to break free after being healed.

It'll work for reaction speed.

That's still shrouded in mystery
Interferences like what? They were fighting one on one nobody else was there.

He didn't allow Sasuke to do anything. He was trying his hardest to kill Sasuke.

Susanoo didn't happen to break anything it overpowered the seal. Equal feat to Kn6 breaking its seal.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:50 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Devil's Lawyer View Post
Interferences like what? They were fighting one on one nobody else was there.

He didn't allow Sasuke to do anything. He was trying his hardest to kill Sasuke.

Susanoo didn't happen to break anything it overpowered the seal. Equal feat to Kn6 breaking its seal.
Karin was there the whole fight and even healed him at a time, as well as helped him by telling him where Danzo was. Madara also watched ready to save him.

If he was he would've summoned Baku from the start and killed him.

BREAK FREE from the seal. And the seal of the Kyuubi was broken in the Haku fight.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:55 PM   #488
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Default Re: Official Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

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Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare View Post
Karin was there the whole fight and even healed him at a time, as well as helped him by telling him where Danzo was. Madara also watched ready to save him.

If he was he would've summoned Baku from the start and killed him.

BREAK FREE from the seal. And the seal of the Kyuubi was broken in the Haku fight.
Big deal, he wouldn't have died from that anyway.

Then he would just have fireballed Baku like he did.

The seal was not broken in the Haku fight. The Kyubi's chakra leaked out.
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Old 01-27-2011, 05:55 PM   #489
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Originally Posted by J-Sun Tasogare View Post
Karin was there the whole fight and even healed him at a time, as well as helped him by telling him where Danzo was. Madara also watched ready to save him.

If he was he would've summoned Baku from the start and killed him.

BREAK FREE from the seal. And the seal of the Kyuubi was broken in the Haku fight.
Interferences that was equalized by the fact he was not at full health when he fought Danzo. Karin ability isn't that strong. Sasuke was already pushing it before the fight even began.

Baku couldn't kill him. Considering it is weak against fire. Also animals are vulnerable to the sharigan.

No it was broken in the pain fight. When he completely crushed it.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:06 PM   #490
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Tenten would need some kind of jutsu to be able to launch a MASS amount of weapons all at once, like Twin Rising Dragons. But she's never shown such jutsu in the manga. So really she has no advantage other than being long ranged. She can summon maybe a few tools at once with great accuracy but its nothing Sakura can't dodge or deflect. And dodging Kunai Bomb shouldn't be difficult either when she can keep up with Iron Sand and Sasoris puppets.
Tenten maybe has some skill with swords at close range but they'd be no where enough to take on Sakura who clearly better at close range than Tenten.

I'd beg to differ. Her shunshins distance far exceed anything Tayuyas Doki have ever shown. And her speedy punch against Sai was almost if not shunshin speed. Also, she moves at near shunshin speed , and throws a quick punch to the giant Caterpillars face whenever she solos it during the Pein Arc. And her taijutsu was enough to predict Sasoris movements, keep up with his puppets and Iron Sand and dodge many of their attacks by herself and destroy some of the puppet army. Chiyo praises her for her evasive movement and taijutsu ability, and Chiyo was a War Veteran and skilled Advisor. Sakuras taijutsu is exellent, its just not on par with people like A, Guy and Lee - because of their speed advantage and power ups. Oh yes, Part I Sakura dispelled Kabutos A Class Genjutsu which only the Jonin and Special Jonin were capable of doing. Part I Sakuras initial Genjutsu skill is placed at 3, and goes up to 3.5 by Part II, while DB's aren't always correct - this one makes sense, as Sakura has always been praised for her skill in Genjutsu. Would seem logical to go by.

Hence why Tayuyas Genjutsu can probably be dispelled. One way or another.
A few weapons? Tenten carries a massive summoning scrolls on her back. It is safe to assume she can summon a lot more than a few weapons. I am more than positive she can summon more weapons than a person can dodge, unless you are Temari. Chapter 73: Page 19 is a perfect example. Though she got her ass handed to her by Temari, look at the amount of weapons on the ground. They did not even fight long and yet the ground is almost completely covered. That means, she can either summon weapons extremely quick or she can summon a mass amount of weapons at once. Remind you, that took place PTS. In Shippuden, Tenten is now a Chunin, so her skills have no doubtingly improved. Furthermore, she has perfect accuracy and excels at long range, so to say someone can dodge easily is foolish. Sakura reacting to Iron Sand -- especially World Order -- was due to Granny Chiyo. Sakura would have not been able to do that alone. Granny Chiyo even saved her ass a few times against those puppets. Sakura? Great at Taijutsu? I doubt it. Sakura is powerful not fast. Tenten is a weapon expert, so you can assume she excels at Kenjutsu and Bojutsu.

Did you say Sakura moves at Shunshin speed? We are referring to the jutsu right? Shunshin no Jutsu? You are kidding. Sakura is not that fast. One, Tayuya would be at a distance, playing a flute. Sakura travels faster than sound? The Doki move pretty fast, reacting to mere music notes. Additionally, the Doki possess Makyō no Ran, which feed on chakra. Sakura is a close range combatant, so fighters like Tayuya and Tenten have an advantage over her. Sai was no more than ten feet in front of Sakura and was caught off guard, not an impressive speed feat. The Giant Centipede was coming toward that little girl, so apparently Sakura was somewhere nearby to see it. The only thing she did was jump and punch. Again, not an impressive speed feat. The Centipede was moving fast, but not that fast. The mass of objects affect their speed. The bigger the object, the slower it moves. The smaller the object, the faster it moves. Sakura was trained by Tsunade, meaning her fighting style resembles Tsunade's. Tsunade and Sakura are powerful, not fast. They have moderate speed, which is how strength usually works. You are either super fast and not so strong or super strong and not so fast. Sakura dispelled that weak sleeping Genjutsu, that was it. Kishi messed up along the way because Kakashi told Sakura that she was a Genjutsu type. Has she used Genjutsu? Not once. She ended up as a Medical Ninja. Is her Genjutsu resistance strong? We do not know nor has any evidence proved or assumed otherwise.

BTW: Chapter 207 are great visuals of Tayuya and her attacks.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:11 PM   #491
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Interferences that was equalized by the fact he was not at full health when he fought Danzo. Karin ability isn't that strong. Sasuke was already pushing it before the fight even began.

Baku couldn't kill him. Considering it is weak against fire. Also animals are vulnerable to the sharigan.

No it was broken in the pain fight. When he completely crushed it.
No he wasn't read the end of the Kage Summit all of his chakra was restored as well as his health.

He wouldn't have a chance to use fire with Izangi+Baku or seal. He hasn't shown to use it on another person's summon.

That was AFTER 6 tails. And it was already broke to an extent to where an amount of 8 tails could get out.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:20 PM   #492
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No he wasn't read the end of the Kage Summit all of his chakra was restored as well as his health.

He wouldn't have a chance to use fire with Izangi+Baku or seal. He hasn't shown to use it on another person's summon.

That was AFTER 6 tails. And it was already broke to an extent to where an amount of 8 tails could get out.
At the Danzo fight, he already had pretty blurred vision, so he wasn't fighting at his best anyway.
Danzo would not use Izanagi until he had to, so he wouln't do that first.

What does Naruto almost breaking the seal have anything to do with Danzo's seal? Both seals have different strengths, different purposes, Naruto's was 16 years old, and they seal different things.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:25 PM   #493
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No he wasn't read the end of the Kage Summit all of his chakra was restored as well as his health.

He wouldn't have a chance to use fire with Izangi+Baku or seal. He hasn't shown to use it on another person's summon.

That was AFTER 6 tails. And it was already broke to an extent to where an amount of 8 tails could get out.
My fault thinking of another fight for a second he was healthy.

Yes he would his speed and reaction are on par with Danzo binding speed and teleporting. He was clearly faster considering the fact that Danzo really couldn't land an attack on Sasuke. That bind jutsu Danzo was him moving at his top speed. That and blocking Susanoo using wood element.

No longer know what you are talking about with that last bit.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:12 PM   #494
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I am willing to say that Killer Bee is stronger than Pain and Kisame.
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #495
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Stop posting that unless you're going to give a reason.

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Old 01-29-2011, 01:34 PM   #496
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500th post and I dont know if bee is that strong...
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:40 PM   #497
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A few weapons? Tenten carries a massive summoning scrolls on her back. It is safe to assume she can summon a lot more than a few weapons. I am more than positive she can summon more weapons than a person can dodge, unless you are Temari. Chapter 73: Page 19 is a perfect example. Though she got her ass handed to her by Temari, look at the amount of weapons on the ground. They did not even fight long and yet the ground is almost completely covered. That means, she can either summon weapons extremely quick or she can summon a mass amount of weapons at once. Remind you, that took place PTS. In Shippuden, Tenten is now a Chunin, so her skills have no doubtingly improved. Furthermore, she has perfect accuracy and excels at long range, so to say someone can dodge easily is foolish. Sakura reacting to Iron Sand -- especially World Order -- was due to Granny Chiyo. Sakura would have not been able to do that alone. Granny Chiyo even saved her ass a few times against those puppets. Sakura? Great at Taijutsu? I doubt it. Sakura is powerful not fast. Tenten is a weapon expert, so you can assume she excels at Kenjutsu and Bojutsu.

Did you say Sakura moves at Shunshin speed? We are referring to the jutsu right? Shunshin no Jutsu? You are kidding. Sakura is not that fast. One, Tayuya would be at a distance, playing a flute. Sakura travels faster than sound? The Doki move pretty fast, reacting to mere music notes. Additionally, the Doki possess Makyō no Ran, which feed on chakra. Sakura is a close range combatant, so fighters like Tayuya and Tenten have an advantage over her. Sai was no more than ten feet in front of Sakura and was caught off guard, not an impressive speed feat. The Giant Centipede was coming toward that little girl, so apparently Sakura was somewhere nearby to see it. The only thing she did was jump and punch. Again, not an impressive speed feat. The Centipede was moving fast, but not that fast. The mass of objects affect their speed. The bigger the object, the slower it moves. The smaller the object, the faster it moves. Sakura was trained by Tsunade, meaning her fighting style resembles Tsunade's. Tsunade and Sakura are powerful, not fast. They have moderate speed, which is how strength usually works. You are either super fast and not so strong or super strong and not so fast. Sakura dispelled that weak sleeping Genjutsu, that was it. Kishi messed up along the way because Kakashi told Sakura that she was a Genjutsu type. Has she used Genjutsu? Not once. She ended up as a Medical Ninja. Is her Genjutsu resistance strong? We do not know nor has any evidence proved or assumed otherwise.

BTW: Chapter 207 are great visuals of Tayuya and her attacks.
Good point. Though, for all we know those weapons could've been released in 3's over a period of time. After all, panels don't exactly scale time accurately. As Sakura wakes up Tenten and Temari are already half way through their match. You can't really make assumptions. Also, you're assuming Tenten is more accurate, can summon more weapons etc. purely from hype. And dismissing any hype Sakura has. Such being taught by a Sannin, an evasive master? One of the most skilled shinobi Konoha has ever produced? And being praised constantly for her skill by a War Veteran and Councilor - Chiyo. I should also add Sakura counters the Iron Sand blocks entirely by herself, Chiyo even states this. In fact, the only time Chiyo helps her with Iron Sand is when three spikes are fired at her, and Chiyos puppets jump to protect Sakura. Sakura was taught by a taijutsu master, so assuming she's not at good at it is really stupid.

Shunshin-like speed. Yes. Look at when she punches Sai during the Sasuke and Sai Arc, its extremely quick. Her fist is barely seeable. And when she solos the giant caterpillar she appears out of nowhere in front of the caterpillar, punches it and kills it no more than a panel/a few moments. I should also add her shunshin has a very large distance, so it should be quite doable to travel even wide distances instantly. Why would she need to move at sound speed? Doki don't move at sound speed and nor does Tayuya. Their attacks can all be dodged and they can all be One Shotted, and like I said. Sakura has an exellent talent for genjutsu, even being able to dispel ones only Jonin level ninja are able to. Like Kakashi, Asuma, Gai, Kurenai, Aoba etc. so dispelling Tayuyas should be doable. One way or another. Essentially meaning Tayuya has no form of hurting her. Also taking hype on board, Sakura would easily beat Tayuya.The punch? How was that not impressive? It was close range yeh, but so what? So are the majority of A's attacks which are extremely quick, does that make them any less impressive? The punch was still very fast. And Sakura was obviously nearby to see the giant caterpillar attacking the little girl, yet in the area around the giant caterpillar, which is rather large I should add, Sakura is nowhere to be seen until she has solo'd the beast. Look it up yourself, its chapter 412 I think. Impressive. At least more impressive than firing a few tools which move at slower speeds and are easily seen.

And whats all this rubbish about Tsunade? Tsunade is fast. As you'll see when she covers a very large distance during the Invasion of Pein while in a near-comatose state. She is also sitting down, and her ANBU [who are known for their extremely acute senses] fails to notice her absence until she lands onto ground in the distance. We also fail to see her move in the few panels which are zoomed out. We may not see her get up and move from point A to point B on panel but the fact so many high level ninja around her failed to notice her move at all notes how fast she moved, and the fact she did so in such a poor state is even more impressive. Tsunades reaction speed is average, yes. Her movement speed is actually very high, as we've seen from that shunshin she did. And Sakuras long range shunshin during the Sai and Sasuke Arc mirrors that. Her reaction speed is enough to dodge attacks from about 5 or 6 puppets coming at her in several directions, and the puppets aren't notably slow either. [Sakura]

Finally, the genjutsu Sakura dispelled was only dispelled by Jonin level ninja like Kakashi, Gai and other examples I gave above. Sakura was the only one able to dispel it, along with Shikamaru - who is given a 3 in genjutsu at the time. We have no knowledge on Shikamarus genjutsu skill otherwise, so going by this DB stat should be accurate, considering it was written by Kishimoto. Sakura also dispels the genjutsu Naruto is put under by Itachi, and to assume its not high level is idiotic. So yes, its safe to assume her genjutsu resistance is very high. She may not have ever used a genjutsu, but the fact she can dispel it shows she is knowledgable on it.

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Old 01-29-2011, 05:58 PM   #498
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Default Re: Official Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

You are wanking Sakura. I will counter your argument later. I do not feel like typing a wall of text right now.
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:09 PM   #499
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=/ You made Sakura sound like she's easily jonin level.
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:35 PM   #500
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Default Re: Official Naruto Tier List - Group Debate

Nope. Just applied the same hype/potential to Sakura as Tentens being given by you Kaz. As well as feats.

Sakuras speed is good. If you wanna back up your claims of why I'm apparently wanking then go ahead and do so ' later ' , or whenever you hope to do so. Just make sure you do it. Nothing more I hate than unjustified insults.

And Sakura is Jonin level, like many of the other rookies, she's far stronger than her rank suggests. Along with Shikamaru, Lee and Choji she's probably one of the strongest rookies.

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