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Old 12-21-2010, 03:57 PM   #1
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Default Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)



So we know that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse, and if naruto uses shadow clones in his jinchuuriki mode then the kyuubi will take control. So I've come up with a few reasons that he will be stronger when (if) he loses the kyuubi.

1. Uzumaki Life Force: Uzumaki's can survive jinchuuriki extraction

2. Jinchuuriki's dont lose there powers: Gaara still has sand manipulation, so Naruto will probably still have his Jinchuuriki Mode

3. Absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra: correct me if i am wrong, but naruto made the kyuubi chakra his own, so even if the kyuubi is extracted, he will not lose its chakra

4. Jinchuuriki Mode/Sage Mode fusion: Without the Nine Tails to worry about, Naruto will be able to gather Sage energy in his Jinchuuriki Mode. Thats right, we may see Bjiuu Bomb FRS before the end of the manga.


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Old 12-21-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Hmm, this is quite interesting. It is possible that he can still have its chakra without the beast itself. But let me ask you this, you said that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse. So then how can he fuse them if you said they can't. Even in Jinchuuriki Mode. REMEMBER, Jinchuuriki mode is when he is covered in the beasts chakra. Now it is possible that he can have the power of the fox's chakra and Sage Mode at the same time. Like when he was with Nagato face to face and you saw Naruto's eyes with Sage Mode and Nine Tails mode.

So now if he was in Sage/Ninetail form and even if Madara tries to suck BOTH the ninetails chakra and the Natrual energy, Madara is probably going to end up like one of the Six pains (Turned into stone)
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickass View Post

So we know that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse, and if naruto uses shadow clones in his jinchuuriki mode then the kyuubi will take control. So I've come up with a few reasons that he will be stronger when (if) he loses the kyuubi.

1. Uzumaki Life Force: Uzumaki's can survive jinchuuriki extraction

2. Jinchuuriki's dont lose there powers: Gaara still has sand manipulation, so Naruto will probably still have his Jinchuuriki Mode

3. Absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra: correct me if i am wrong, but naruto made the kyuubi chakra his own, so even if the kyuubi is extracted, he will not lose its chakra not exactly. But some of the Kyuubi's chakra fuses with Naruto's regular chakra

4. Jinchuuriki Mode/Sage Mode fusion: Without the Nine Tails to worry about, Naruto will be able to gather Sage energy in his Jinchuuriki Mode. Thats right, we may see Bjiuu Bomb FRS before the end of the manga.
If I remember right the only reason Naruto can have a perfect SM is because of mass chakra he has thanks to the Kyuubi. but If you take about the Kyuubi, he should be able to still do it, but he might have some trouble.


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Old 12-21-2010, 04:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickass View Post

So we know that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse, and if naruto uses shadow clones in his jinchuuriki mode then the kyuubi will take control. So I've come up with a few reasons that he will be stronger when (if) he loses the kyuubi.

1. Uzumaki Life Force: Uzumaki's can survive jinchuuriki extraction

This is true.

2. Jinchuuriki's dont lose there powers: Gaara still has sand manipulation, so Naruto will probably still have his Jinchuuriki Mode
This is debatable bc I'm not sure that Jinchuriki retain their bijuu abilities. It's not proven that Sand Manipulation is due to Shukaku as opposed to being the power of Gaara himself. Gaara uses his own chakra to do this. Also,I disagree on this point. for the same reason as my response to #3.

3. Absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra: correct me if i am wrong, but naruto made the kyuubi chakra his own, so even if the kyuubi is extracted, he will not lose its chakra

No. He made it his own is just saying it's there for him to draw at will. If the Kyuubi had no chakra then it would cease to exist. Naruto simply takes it when he wants now. Still......no kyuubi = no kyuubi chakra.

4. Jinchuuriki Mode/Sage Mode fusion: Without the Nine Tails to worry about, Naruto will be able to gather Sage energy in his Jinchuuriki Mode. Thats right, we may see Bjiuu Bomb FRS before the end of the manga.

As I said above, I don't think Naruto will have his Jinchuuriki mode after extraction so obviously I can't agree with this either.......... I hate to seem so opposed but I am I guess. Sorry.
debate away
One thing I think Naruto will have going for him after the extraction is more of his own chakra. Minato created the old seal so that Naruto's chakra was actually what enforced the Kyuubi's imprisonment. So without this burden he should have a greater amount of his personal chakra to expell (assuming his new seal works on the same principle). It should be a significant amount more since it would undoubtedly take a large amount of his supply to supress the Kyuubi.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Jinchuuriki mode is a perfected combination of Kyuubi Chakra and Naruto Chakra. So if the demon is extracted, wouldn't that remove the Kyuubi Chakra? Granted Sage Mode would get a monstrous power boost with him able to make shadow clones and gather energy on the move.

My reasoning on him being able to survive the extraction is because he only has half the Kyuubi inside of him. The other half is sitting in the reaper's belly waiting to be extracted before a Juubi can be complete.
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Do you need the beast's chakra to revive the ten tails?
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Old 12-21-2010, 04:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

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Originally Posted by Naruto321 View Post
Hmm, this is quite interesting. It is possible that he can still have its chakra without the beast itself. But let me ask you this, you said that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse. So then how can he fuse them if you said they can't. Even in Jinchuuriki Mode. REMEMBER, Jinchuuriki mode is when he is covered in the beasts chakra. Now it is possible that he can have the power of the fox's chakra and Sage Mode at the same time. Like when he was with Nagato face to face and you saw Naruto's eyes with Sage Mode and Nine Tails mode.

So now if he was in Sage/Ninetail form and even if Madara tries to suck BOTH the ninetails chakra and the Natrual energy, Madara is probably going to end up like one of the Six pains (Turned into stone)
I agree.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

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Do you need the beast's chakra to revive the ten tails?
According to Madara and Jiraiya, yes.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickass View Post

So we know that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse, and if naruto uses shadow clones in his jinchuuriki mode then the kyuubi will take control. So I've come up with a few reasons that he will be stronger when (if) he loses the kyuubi.

1. Uzumaki Life Force: Uzumaki's can survive jinchuuriki extraction

Spoiler:
Yes this is true, as when his mother was seperated from the fox, she survived but was in terrible shape and I believe they said she dying. If the Kyuubi is removed he may survive, but the question is, for how long??


2. Jinchuuriki's dont lose there powers: Gaara still has sand manipulation, so Naruto will probably still have his Jinchuuriki Mode

Spoiler:
It's said at a later point in the story that the rasengan is similar to the beast bomb of the Kyuubi, so when Jiraiya taught him the Rasengan, this helped to make it a reality...


3. Absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra: correct me if i am wrong, but naruto made the kyuubi chakra his own, so even if the kyuubi is extracted, he will not lose its chakra

Spoiler:
Naruto has made the Kyuubi's chakra his own, he simply uses it on a liberal basis and his new form is more like a give and take basis. If he uses it too much he can die along with the Kyuubi!



4. Jinchuuriki Mode/Sage Mode fusion: Without the Nine Tails to worry about, Naruto will be able to gather Sage energy in his Jinchuuriki Mode. Thats right, we may see Bjiuu Bomb FRS before the end of the manga.

Spoiler:
Without the Kyuubi, Naruto will have to rely on only his own chakra whiuch seems to be quite a lot. That which would normally be used to suppress the Kyuubi wouild be freed up so he could now use it and thus potentially become more powerful. As he was taught the Sage mode, w/o the Kyuubi he would most likely be able to stay in that form for awhile but he would have to practice it, less he get froglike features or turn into stone like his predecessors. As stated above as for the Bijuu bomb, as it closely resembles the Rasengan, this is indeed possible to see the Bijuu Bomb later in the story used by Naruto himself..


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Old 12-21-2010, 07:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

I'd like to say that it's being hinted at strongly that Naruto will lose the Kyuubi. Many times Naruto has talked about the loneliness the Kyuubi brings. Then there's the parallel between Gaara and Naruto, and the fact that it was mentioned that the Uzumaki's stamina allowed Kushina to survive the Kyuubi being extracted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickass View Post

So we know that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse, and if naruto uses shadow clones in his jinchuuriki mode then the kyuubi will take control. So I've come up with a few reasons that he will be stronger when (if) he loses the kyuubi.

1. Uzumaki Life Force: Uzumaki's can survive jinchuuriki extraction.

Spoiler:
I don't see how this is a reason that he will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi, but okay.


2. Jinchuuriki's dont lose there powers: Gaara still has sand manipulation, so Naruto will probably still have his Jinchuuriki Mode

Spoiler:
Gaara's sand and Naruto's Jinchuuriki mode are different. Whereas it's not been stated that Gaara's sand manipulation came from the Shukaku, it has been shown that Naruto's Jinchuuriki mode is a direct result of the Kyuubi's chakra. Also, using one of the Bijuu's techniques is conceptually different than Jinchuuriki mode.


3. Absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra: correct me if i am wrong, but naruto made the kyuubi chakra his own, so even if the kyuubi is extracted, he will not lose its chakra

Spoiler:
Since the Bijuu is simply a giant mass of chakra with a conscious mind, extracting the Kyuubi would mean taking out the chakra. And as others have said, saying that Naruto "made it his own" is simply meaning that he can force the Kyuubi's chakra out without forcing its consciousness. So it can use the Kyuubi's power while being in control of his actions.


4. Jinchuuriki Mode/Sage Mode fusion: Without the Nine Tails to worry about, Naruto will be able to gather Sage energy in his Jinchuuriki Mode. Thats right, we may see Bjiuu Bomb FRS before the end of the manga.

Spoiler:
See above.


debate away
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

if naruto loses the kyuubi sasuke should lose susanoo it's the only way they'll be evenly matched
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Seems to make sense to me but after reading the other post.. I don't know!

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Old 12-22-2010, 06:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickass View Post

So we know that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse, and if naruto uses shadow clones in his jinchuuriki mode then the kyuubi will take control. So I've come up with a few reasons that he will be stronger when (if) he loses the kyuubi.

1. Uzumaki Life Force: Uzumaki's can survive jinchuuriki extraction
True


2. Jinchuuriki's dont lose there powers: Gaara still has sand manipulation, so Naruto will probably still have his Jinchuuriki Mode
Not True. Gaara has the ability to manipulate sand, thats it. He can't go into his Bijuu form, so how do you expect Naruto to?

3. Absorbing the Kyuubi's chakra: correct me if i am wrong, but naruto made the kyuubi chakra his own, so even if the kyuubi is extracted, he will not lose its chakra
He made the Kyuubi chakra controllable. But no Kyuubi = No Kyuubi chakra. Obviously.

4. Jinchuuriki Mode/Sage Mode fusion: Without the Nine Tails to worry about, Naruto will be able to gather Sage energy in his Jinchuuriki Mode. Thats right, we may see Bjiuu Bomb FRS before the end of the manga.
Not without the Kyuubi he won't.

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Old 12-22-2010, 08:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Naruto's tenacity will eventually find a way around his limitations. This is a well established theme by now. He is an Uzumaki; for all we know, there's a special seal waiting for him to spontaneously discover (like the one SotSP's seal he used), that will allow him to block the reverse flow of his native chakra and thus use shadow clones, etc. After all, it would make as much sense as his learning the current seal out of nowhere. Also, it might be possible to establish clones before he enters beast mode. While I suspected a while ago that using sage mode in beast mode could end up harming the Kyuubi, has this been established? If not, it could go either way, because of course he's using sage mode while hosting the Kyuubi in the first place...
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

naruto needs kyuubi's power as a source of chakra for tough techniques
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Does he? I thought he had a vast store of personal chakra, which is why he's uniquely able to handle being the Kyuubi's jinchuuriki in the first place...
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

We've already seen Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode fused....

chapter 444, page 4, 6, and 7

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Old 12-22-2010, 11:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

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Originally Posted by Naruto321 View Post
Hmm, this is quite interesting. It is possible that he can still have its chakra without the beast itself. But let me ask you this, you said that Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode cannot fuse. So then how can he fuse them if you said they can't. Even in Jinchuuriki Mode. REMEMBER, Jinchuuriki mode is when he is covered in the beasts chakra. Now it is possible that he can have the power of the fox's chakra and Sage Mode at the same time. Like when he was with Nagato face to face and you saw Naruto's eyes with Sage Mode and Nine Tails mode.

So now if he was in Sage/Ninetail form and even if Madara tries to suck BOTH the ninetails chakra and the Natrual energy, Madara is probably going to end up like one of the Six pains (Turned into stone)
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Originally Posted by YondaimeSage View Post
We've already seen Jinchuuriki Mode and Sage Mode fused....

chapter 444, page 4, 6, and 7
I just said that already
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

Yes, and i provided the source. TEAMWORK!
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: Naruto will be stronger if he loses the Kyuubi (READ OP)

I do not call that as teamwork but fine.
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