I think I've Figured Out Madara! *spoilers*

[TarnishedTau]

Spoiler:

I'm with you, KARINISSOSEXY. I just read through the majority of this little debate and got aggravated enough to sign up on the site, create a quick profile, accept the forum rules and such just to post this.

- Uchiha clan (while it is not technically a village) rested on the outskirts of Konaha and was so secluded that it basically served as a small village in its own right. They considered their sanctions and seclusion enough of a hint that they were not the same as the other ninjas and clans within Konoha- that includes the Hyuga clan who really didn't seem to have such a separate village-esque area as the Uchiha clan did.

- Sasuke had limited information about the Nine-Tails attack on Konoha, and what he did have was what Itachi had previously told him about the Kyuubi attacking the village under the control of Madara. Madara expected such to come from Itachi, so he made sure to mention to Sasuke that the Nine-Tails attack was purely coincidence (in the anime he said "a natural occurence") to probably generate just enough confusion to cover other details but mainly to make the point that the Uchiha clan was being treated unfairly. Sasuke had no idea this was why their village (or area) was secluded. More than likely he believed that their clan was segregated because they were elite.

- Sasuke's only goal was to "kill a certain man." He never had intentions of destroying Konoha or its leaders, but at the same time he found himself with his goal achieved and only because Itachi wanted it to happen. He did it all for nothing, and after listening to Madara Sasuke knew that the only reason for everything that had happened (for his life and his clan turning to shambles) was because of Itachi's mission which came from the higher-ups of Konoha. He took everything that Madara said (lies and all) and believed every word of it. This built up enough hatred for Danzo, the Elders, and Konoha itself to merit his desire to destroy the entire village. People change. Goals do too.

- Madara tried to start war between the Senju clan of the Forest and the Uchiha clan after the merge into Konoha only because he believed his people would be oppressed. He battled with the newly created Hokage (Hashirama) and lost. Like was said, he was believed dead for a time, then a few people started to figure things out.

* Honestly, had Madara not acted the way he did and attacked the village (specifically the final battle with Hashirama) and used the Nine-Tails (which I do think he did), then maybe the Uchiha clan wouldn't have been so oppressed in Konaha. In my opinion, their oppression is all his fault for having too much pride.

Madara lied to Sasuke about the Nine-Tails attack because he knew that after revealing the truth about Itachi, Sasuke wouldn't know what to do with himself (as if he had much of an idea before that). With the majority of his life revolving around revenge, Sasuke was prone to falling back into that.

Madara's move to immediately collect Sasuke and tell him the truth is total genius on his part, the lie about the Nine-Tails included. The truth about Itachi made Sasuke almost regret his life of revenge, and the lie about the Nine-Tails attack being a purely natural occurrence made Sasuke want revenge against those who had forced Itachi into the situation that ultimately led to Sasuke's revenge motif and vendetta.

The lie created a new goal for Sasuke- to destroy those responsible for destroying his family: Danzo and the Elders specifically, but he went a step further and decided that all of Konoha was to blame.

Yes, Madara holds a grudge- against the entire Leaf Village, not just Danzo and the Elders. After he used the Nine-Tails to attack Konoha, Danzo and the Elders just gave him reasoning that fit his insane idea that the Uchiha clan would be oppressed. He manipulated the situation to make his theory turn to truth, and they were the ones who actually acted which is why he directed everything at them.

Madara definitely lied to Sasuke about the Nine-Tails story for the very reason that he would be able to use Sasuke for his own purposes. Why? That still is yet to be determined why he would actually need Sasuke.

I mean, if he so powerful then why not take care of Danzo and the Elders himself? That right there is proof enough that Danzo and the Elders aren't the focus. It's the entire village of Konoha that is under attack. Madara wants war and complete control over everyone by the time it is over (check the Manga for specifics). He is the selfish brother whose pride cause the downfall of his clan. Now after discovering a way to regain power and dominion for the Uchiha clan (but most specifically for himself), Madara is going for it. And he needs Sasuke for something.

Sasuke is a means to an end. Just not sure what that end is quite yet, but probably something to do with Naruto.

Another point though- I'm hurting for an instance where Madara has even used a jutsu that did damage to anyone. Maybe he is in a state of limbo? Stuck between life and death, unable to perform jutsu and take care of his enemies himself? Just an idea though. I mean I've seen him touch people and transport them in the Manga, but never injure them. Could be totally wrong with that kind of idea, but it is just a thought.

Sorry I'm a bit long winded. I've just been reading the replies (specifically between KARINISSOSEXY and zerosameri) and I kept finding things to say haha.

Can't wait for the next Manga to come out and for the rest of the Anime series to catch up!

HOLLER!

[PlatonicZombie]

Originally Posted by KARINISSOSEXY

......sasuke can't kill anyone?
Are you joking? Sasuke's a friggin' mad powerhouse. Did you see how he held his own against Bee? The only reason he's alive is because he ran. They'd have killed eachother. And he killed Deidara.

Actually... technically Deidara killed himself.

[Windking]

Madara is a liar.
He tell stories about histories..,Rikudo Sennin and his juubi, Uchiha clan assassination.etc.

[KARINISSOSEXY]

Originally Posted by PlatonicZombie

Actually... technically Deidara killed himself.

techinally if it wasn't for Sasuke he wouldn't've gone mad as such.

[KARINISSOSEXY]

Originally Posted by Kizomaru Yukimoto

COUGH ! I think soo tooo ! .. Um I figured this out 2 months ago. Isnt that chapter old now ?

COUGH! Wow I think it is! .. Um, I figured this out waayy longer than two months ago. This thread is aging. It's pretty old now. More than two months old. But People are really attracted to it, giving it a long life.

[laglasgo]

Technically.............Madara is a snake, duh

[KARINISSOSEXY]

Originally Posted by tarnishedtau

Spoiler:

i'm with you, karinissosexy. I just read through the majority of this little debate and got aggravated enough to sign up on the site, create a quick profile, accept the forum rules and such just to post this.

- uchiha clan (while it is not technically a village) rested on the outskirts of konaha and was so secluded that it basically served as a small village in its own right. They considered their sanctions and seclusion enough of a hint that they were not the same as the other ninjas and clans within konoha- that includes the hyuga clan who really didn't seem to have such a separate village-esque area as the uchiha clan did.

- sasuke had limited information about the nine-tails attack on konoha, and what he did have was what itachi had previously told him about the kyuubi attacking the village under the control of madara. Madara expected such to come from itachi, so he made sure to mention to sasuke that the nine-tails attack was purely coincidence (in the anime he said "a natural occurence") to probably generate just enough confusion to cover other details but mainly to make the point that the uchiha clan was being treated unfairly. Sasuke had no idea this was why their village (or area) was secluded. More than likely he believed that their clan was segregated because they were elite.

- sasuke's only goal was to "kill a certain man." he never had intentions of destroying konoha or its leaders, but at the same time he found himself with his goal achieved and only because itachi wanted it to happen. He did it all for nothing, and after listening to madara sasuke knew that the only reason for everything that had happened (for his life and his clan turning to shambles) was because of itachi's mission which came from the higher-ups of konoha. He took everything that madara said (lies and all) and believed every word of it. This built up enough hatred for danzo, the elders, and konoha itself to merit his desire to destroy the entire village. People change. Goals do too.

- madara tried to start war between the senju clan of the forest and the uchiha clan after the merge into konoha only because he believed his people would be oppressed. He battled with the newly created hokage (hashirama) and lost. Like was said, he was believed dead for a time, then a few people started to figure things out.

* honestly, had madara not acted the way he did and attacked the village (specifically the final battle with hashirama) and used the nine-tails (which i do think he did), then maybe the uchiha clan wouldn't have been so oppressed in konaha. In my opinion, their oppression is all his fault for having too much pride.

Madara lied to sasuke about the nine-tails attack because he knew that after revealing the truth about itachi, sasuke wouldn't know what to do with himself (as if he had much of an idea before that). With the majority of his life revolving around revenge, sasuke was prone to falling back into that.

Madara's move to immediately collect sasuke and tell him the truth is total genius on his part, the lie about the nine-tails included. The truth about itachi made sasuke almost regret his life of revenge, and the lie about the nine-tails attack being a purely natural occurrence made sasuke want revenge against those who had forced itachi into the situation that ultimately led to sasuke's revenge motif and vendetta.

The lie created a new goal for sasuke- to destroy those responsible for destroying his family: Danzo and the elders specifically, but he went a step further and decided that all of konoha was to blame.

Yes, madara holds a grudge- against the entire leaf village, not just danzo and the elders. After he used the nine-tails to attack konoha, danzo and the elders just gave him reasoning that fit his insane idea that the uchiha clan would be oppressed. he manipulated the situation to make his theory turn to truth, and they were the ones who actually acted which is why he directed everything at them.

Madara definitely lied to sasuke about the nine-tails story for the very reason that he would be able to use sasuke for his own purposes. Why? That still is yet to be determined why he would actually need sasuke.

I mean, if he so powerful then why not take care of danzo and the elders himself? That right there is proof enough that danzo and the elders aren't the focus. It's the entire village of konoha that is under attack. Madara wants war and complete control over everyone by the time it is over (check the manga for specifics). He is the selfish brother whose pride cause the downfall of his clan. Now after discovering a way to regain power and dominion for the uchiha clan (but most specifically for himself), madara is going for it. And he needs sasuke for something.

Sasuke is a means to an end. Just not sure what that end is quite yet, but probably something to do with naruto.

Another point though- i'm hurting for an instance where madara has even used a jutsu that did damage to anyone. Maybe he is in a state of limbo? Stuck between life and death, unable to perform jutsu and take care of his enemies himself? Just an idea though. I mean i've seen him touch people and transport them in the manga, but never injure them. Could be totally wrong with that kind of idea, but it is just a thought.

Sorry i'm a bit long winded. I've just been reading the replies (specifically between karinissosexy and zerosameri) and i kept finding things to say haha.

Can't wait for the next manga to come out and for the rest of the anime series to catch up!

Holler!

thank you!!!!

[kakashi_sempai]

Originally Posted by Naruto321

I knew that Itachi didn't destroy the village.

Spoiler:

Madara was the one who did. He used his Sharingan to control the Nine Tailed fox

i knew since the nine tail fox told sasuke the name of madara
plus itachi only destroyed his clan not a village

[ElitesamuraI26]

Spoiler:

You forget to noticed that Itachi was a double agent working with Konoha to massacre his clan.

[garra12345]

I don't think he lied to sasuke.

[sakura_san]

i am sure madara is lying and i agree sasuke is stupid and he is doing what madara wants

[jeka.com.ua]

sasuke is stupid and he is doing what madara wants

I can't agree with you. Just imagine that you had a strong confidence that Itachi killed your сlan simply to check his own forces for a long time and in some moment you simply understand that all this was wrong, Itachi was a brilliant man and actions that you have done to kill Itachi were useless And after this Madara says that the problem was not in Itachi but in counsellors. Sasuke was in situation when everything was destroyed, the goal of his life was wrong and it was his only way to continue his existence and to find a new goal.

[OmegaShenlon]

i believe that when sasuke learns about Madara's lie he will kill him but he will still be against Konoha.Madara have controlled twice the 9-tailed-fox.Once against Hashirama and once against Konoha

[Devroux]

Originally Posted by KARINISSOSEXY

When Madara was having a convo with sasuke about who he is and the history of why Itachi destroyed the village I remember distictly about him telling sasuke that the Nine-Tailed Fox attacking 16 years ago was purely a coincidence. But then when the fourth was talking to naruto, he said that Madara WAS behind it. I think he lied to Sasuke so he would go after the elders because he holds a grudge against them - they cast him out of the village. And if sasuke knew the truth, He would've killed Tobi/Madara. Maybe this was obvious, but what do you think?

This makes a lot of sense. Good theory!

Originally Posted by super

Um... Itachi destroyed a village?

He has not destroyed any villages but killed his clan with the exception of Sasuke

Spoiler:

with the help of Madara.

Originally Posted by BankaiZ

Itachi killed his clan, thats about it.
Only person in the Akatsuki that has been show to destroy villages is Sasori and Deidara

If I'm saying this right (correct me if I'm wrong) neither of them have destroyed a village. Deidara attempted to destroy the Hidden Sand but was thwarted (<- ) by Gaara.

[Throw Rasen-Shuriken]

If Madara lied to Sasuke about the nine-tailed fox it makes you wonder what else he lied about to him as well doesn't it.

I know one that destroyed a village, Pain