Is life a lie?

[TheBlackChidori]

Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie

Really? What is this proof you speak of? In what way can any empirical data ever prove that we live in a fundamental reality? In point of fact, many scientists suspect that other orders of reality (extra dimensions, parallel universes, etc) may exist, because it makes it easier to explain this one! I also find it suspicious that the material world is so immaterial. Why is it that energy and matter are the same thing, that a photon is both a particle and a wave, that both time and matter seem to be delivered in irreducible quanta? How come you can't observe an electron's exact position while simultaneously knowing its velocity?

Do you realize that you are almost entirely space and have never actually touched anything? We are clouds of charged particles pushing against electromagnetic forcefields, fooled into believing we are actually solid.

As R. Buckminster Fuller once said: "Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines"

What we are is pattern, and there is no good reason to believe that such patterns can't run as programs somewhere. And if they run anywhere, they probably run nearly everywhere. Add to that the raving miracle of existence, which resides in a sample space so large that even astronomically unlikely events happen routinely, and you have a recipe for matryoshkatic matrices run amok!.

The proof that we face every day. It can be felt, it can seen, it can be remembered. What is a dream? It's merely speculation, is it not? If I have to take the two uncertainties together, then existence being real seems a bit more plausible, does it not?

What you're proposing is a Utopian society, and yes only a Utopian society would be able to maintain and run such a vast and intricate situation. It's almost like a Logan's Run or HG Wells theory, which is interesting, but still just an idea. If life was a created reality, a dream, or whatever else, things like War wouldn't exist. Poverty? Plague? The use of all our resources? If this really is a solipsism, then there would still need to be a creator of any illusion that you could be in anymore.

Of course, that plays into religion. God, the architect, whatever the case may be. But in that case, something real creates something...Doesn't the thing become real? God creates life, or even a vision of life for souls to travel through, but it is still real. Sometimes people use the word illusion and make things sound nonexistent, but that's really not the definition of an illusion.


You mentioned in your first post that you were into Panentheism. If I know about it at all, it's like seeing God as the universe itself, right? Have you ever heard of The Oversoul?

[Ur Mom]

Do you know of that theory made in Paris about the simultaneously copying movement particles. I find it interesting how they say this might be the key to why the world isn't real. Maybe this is the proof, along with what JJ said

http://www.globalone.tv/group/quantu...-a-holographic

[~blackstar~]

must you always talk about confusing things? >.> <.<

anways it dosen't matter, you're still alive (you know, maybe...) so just liek, have fun or something...

[Jutsu Junkie]

Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori

The proof that we face every day. It can be felt, it can seen, it can be remembered. What is a dream? It's merely speculation, is it not? If I have to take the two uncertainties together, then existence being real seems a bit more plausible, does it not?

What you're proposing is a Utopian society, and yes only a Utopian society would be able to maintain and run such a vast and intricate situation. It's almost like a Logan's Run or HG Wells theory, which is interesting, but still just an idea. If life was a created reality, a dream, or whatever else, things like War wouldn't exist. Poverty? Plague? The use of all our resources? If this really is a solipsism, then there would still need to be a creator of any illusion that you could be in anymore.

Of course, that plays into religion. God, the architect, whatever the case may be. But in that case, something real creates something...Doesn't the thing become real? God creates life, or even a vision of life for souls to travel through, but it is still real. Sometimes people use the word illusion and make things sound nonexistent, but that's really not the definition of an illusion.


You mentioned in your first post that you were into Panentheism. If I know about it at all, it's like seeing God as the universe itself, right? Have you ever heard of The Oversoul?

"It can be felt, it can be seen" just isn't accurate (at least in the way you probably mean it), as I've said. All your perceptions are instantiations of field interactions interpreted by your brain, not a direct experience of the object or event perceived. It is the fundamental unreality of your perceptions that allows dreams to seem so real -- and why there is hope of replicating such perceptions in virtual reality. In other words, you are not seeing a blue sky, because you aren't seeing the sky at all -- just the reaction of your retina's rods and cones to a pattern of photons that are then (often erroneously) interpreted by your brain. If you think you are getting the truth from your brain, you need to study optical illusions.

Moving on, I never said that the Matrix is an illusion. I said it wasn't fundamental, which is why I put the words "real" and "fake" in quotes (oooh, I did it again!). Fundamental, in the way I use it, means "not created by beings of our order of existence." In other words, only a god can create fundamental realities, not AIs or aliens -- or us.

And, as for why there would be war in the Matrix? Fake violence is fun -- and for a certain subset of humanity, they enjoy the real thing. If we can find satisfaction in it, so can our transdimensional overlords.

And panentheism is not God=the Cosmos; it is everything being within God, but God being transcendent and beyond Creation. What you described is called pantheism.

Originally Posted by Ur Mom

Do you know of that theory made in Paris about the simultaneously copying movement particles. I find it interesting how they say this might be the key to why the world isn't real. Maybe this is the proof, along with what JJ said

http://www.globalone.tv/group/quantu...-a-holographic

I read Talbot's book, The Holographic Universe, years ago. The man spoke to his spleen. I'm not kidding. The entire book was an attempt to get you to believe his prattle about ghosts and psychic abilities. I don't doubt that such things could happen, only that his book has anything to do with establishing proof for such a reality. The first half of the book is an exploration of a scientific theory, and the second half is all ghost stories. An interesting read, though.

Originally Posted by ~blackstar~

must you always talk about confusing things? >.> <.<

anways it dosen't matter, you're still alive (you know, maybe...) so just liek, have fun or something...

Yes. Maybe, maybe not. I am. :P

[Ur Mom]

Originally Posted by ~blackstar~

must you always talk about confusing things? >.> <.<

anways it dosen't matter, you're still alive (you know, maybe...) so just liek, have fun or something...

Heheh, confused Blackstar is confused

@JJ: I did not know that, that changes a lot of the reference then......still, I looked up Alian Aspect, and his findings may not be that wrong, he just apparently didn't put in a few variable he needed to, however these variables are untestable, thus the theory will never be able to be confirmed. Just as this discussion could never end unless someone just gives up on arguing on an unsolutional subject.

[Jutsu Junkie]

Originally Posted by Ur Mom

Heheh, confused Blackstar is confused

@JJ: I did not know that, that changes a lot of the reference then......still, I looked up Alian Aspect, and his findings may not be that wrong, he just apparently didn't put in a few variable he needed to, however these variables are untestable, thus the theory will never be able to be confirmed. Just as this discussion could never end unless someone just gives up on arguing on an unsolutional subject.

Aspect is a good scientist. I knew about his work before I read Talbot's book. There has been recent conjecture that the "fuzziness" we find at the Planck scale of existence could be explained by holographic theory.

[Err]

I could really get into this but it all boils down to: Even if we knew that we were brains in jars we would still be trapped within this reality. We just have to work with what we can make out of this reality.

[Jutsu Junkie]

Actually, if we knew we were brains in jars, life could become much better. Our reality would be a malleable substrate upon which we could write our fates with more direct means than we currently employ. This assumes, of course, that we are in control but just don't know it. In such a situation we could also just be guinea pigs, or the victims of a twisted being without any practical motive. Fun.

[Uchiha_Itachi]

I don't have a religion so I believe that you should enjoy life as much as possible. You only get one. Also, in millions of years, self concious humans probably won't exsist anymore due to nuclear weapons, climate, or just something. Have fun with life.

[Uchiha Raimaru]

Originally Posted by Err

I could really get into this but it all boils down to: Even if we knew that we were brains in jars we would still be trapped within this reality. We just have to work with what we can make out of this reality.

This^

Life, no matter how you slice it, is based on our perception of reality. If I believe, truly, with my entire being, that my hair is blond, then it is such to my perception of reality. Even if you perceive that my hair is brown, that is your reality as you perceive it, not mine.

Even if I see my own hair as brown, what does that matter? As our senses are fallible, as you have said, then who's to say that in the "true reality" as it is, that my hair isn't truly blond, or red, or black?

Even if we are living in an illusion created by some higher being, if we were able to be trapped in this supposed reality, then we have no power to remove ourselves from it. Assuming we really are in an illusion, then knowing that we are while having no power to change it would drive one to the brink of madness.

On that note, what it "true reality"? If we are in an illusion, then the creator's realm is reality by our assumptions. But who's to say that this is true reality? To the supposed creator's perception, their realm is reality while ours isn't.

So it all boils down to this: I think, therefore I am, and that's all I need to know. I will enjoy my life, and "reality" shall be as I perceive it. If my perception is wrong, then I will deal with it when the time comes, as I have no power to change it.

[The Shady Ninja]

This reminds me of the movie the Truman Show. Basically, his life was one big TV show. There were cameras everywhere he went. He was pretty much scripted, and everyone around him was an actor/actress. You may not be talking about this, but I had to make this connection.

[Jutsu Junkie]

I don't understand why so many people seem to think that pondering this stuff and/or taking it seriously and "living life/having fun" are mutually exclusive. They are not. Some people find this sort of thing entertaining, you know. Otherwise The Matrix would have been a bust, and you wouldn't know the name Socrates...

[TheTrueMasterofIllusions]

What if we were bacteria in a bigger universe than our own...?

Spoiler:

I'm the TB Bacterium....

[Jutsu Junkie]

Well, if the Plank Length doesn't apply in other universes, it is entirely possible that we are a tiny speck "inside" another universe, where different laws apply. Size is totally relative, and has no upper or lower bound without a particular set of laws to limit that parameter. In our universe, size is limited down by the Plank Length and up by the extent of cosmic inflation and the speed of light, so our cosmos does not contain objects bigger or smaller than these limitations, within the dimensions that we are able to observe.

Spoiler:

In that case, I'm definitely ebola

[TheTrueMasterofIllusions]

Isn't that the disease named after Ebola River? It's the one that makes you bleed through your skin right?

It would weirder if we were some one elses imaginary character in a book surrounded by that person's fellow being's book character collected into one big universe.

[iMario999]

Your video game don't exist cuz we don't lag....

[Sina]

God is not a gamer and if he is he's a good one that cares about the characters (just don't mind "He" we don't know the gender)

[kakashi uzumaki]

Originally Posted by Ur Mom

Are you guys replying to my posts really there? What if everything around you is just a hologram of some sort, even people. What if everything you do in your life is just you in an extremely advanced real-time first person video game played by a higher source. What if god was a gamer playing with us, since after all, everything is set in stone technically (no affiliation of god needed here to answer this either, it could just be a higher being)? How can we know something is there if we're not seeing it? How do we know we a sound has been emitted if we can't hear it? How do we know.....well, I'll stop there, but you know on what line of philosophy I'm talking about

Well, one thing that tells us apart from being real or fake would be our soul and feeling emotions. Our body releases chemicals that show either love or hate. All other emotions are in between, we were made to sense these feelings depending on how strong they are.

If it was someone from the future, we would most likely know based on their actions and knowledge. Some people believed that Albert Einstein was from the future due his large amounts of knowledge, does him being smart mean that he's from the future?

Technically, there is no answer for these questions, just opinions.