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Old 10-17-2010, 10:07 AM   #1
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Default Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

I noticed that we had 666 threads in the debate section.
So I'd thought why not a debate on the one who bears that number?
Would the Beast or more commonly known as the Antichrist (although
the Bible does not call the Beast as such) be a human being?
I'm not saying will be a horse or something like that. The Antichrist
should be very much like a human if not actually human. However
there is one key difference. The Antichrist has no free will.
(Or if you want you could argue otherwise) anywho if the Antichrist
has no free will and is evil by nature then is it human?
Humans have the free will to choose evil or good. Yet the Antichrist
is by necessity of prophecy, evil. Then again, does God forsee the
future and lets it happen? Or does God speak the future and it happens?

Debate
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:48 AM   #2
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

What's with all the 666s all over this forum?

Clearly mrsticky005 is the Antichirst. Answer this question yourself. Are you evil?
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:52 AM   #3
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

obama is the antichrist. charismatic, powerful, etc. hes leading to doom
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
What's with all the 666s all over this forum?

Clearly mrsticky005 is the Antichirst. Answer this question yourself. Are you evil?

It's like fighting Zombies in Final Fantasy.


Hmmm. I think I'd have to be smarter to be that. Smart in a bad way.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Stuff from the history channel. T_T I am ascared to post this nonsense. xD >.>

Spoiler:
From what I have learned allegedly about the concept of the rapture, Jesus will come back to smite a wicked beast into the bowls of the earth. Reigning in an era of peace and tranquility.

The concept of this rapture was twisted by the future generations of Christians. They take what the bible says and try and imagine what will happen.

Some suppose that there are different anti christs(Napolean,Hitler and ??).He Who will speak of peace and love, will actually bring the world into a final battle with modern technology.

No matter how you spin it, whether it be a person or a mythical demon, the anti christ is evil by default. I don't know if I have my facts straight,but isn't the anti christ an envoy of Lucifer or is it his spawn? Damn modern media mixing with historical references.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 10-18-2010, 12:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
It's like fighting Zombies in Final Fantasy.


Hmmm. I think I'd have to be smarter to be that. Smart in a bad way.
My Catholic senses are tingling. >.>

Yes, you are a dork after all.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

The beast is a symbol. A symbol can't be human. An entity of evil and doom.

Some could say its Lucifer. Even so, still not a human.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

I know that the Beast plays the violin. I now leave you to wonder this statement's true meaning.

@TBC: You are soooooooooo wrong. No offense.

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Old 10-18-2010, 03:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
The beast is a symbol. A symbol can't be human. An entity of evil and doom.

Some could say its Lucifer. Even so, still not a human.

The Antichrist/The First Beast is NOT Lucifer.

I'm sure you've heard of the Holy Trinity which is...

The Father
The Son (Jesus)
The Holy Spirit

Well there's also a Unholy Trinity which is

The Dragon (Lucifer, The Devil, Satan)
The First Beast (The Antichrist, The Lawless One)
The Second Beast (The False Prophet)

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is both human and God.

The First Beast is the Son of the Dragon.
He might be both Human and Demon.

However the problem with calling the First Beast as human is that
all humans are supposed to have free will. Jesus had free will and
was therefore human. However the First Beast has no free will.
Unless of course I'm wrong on that part.

The Beast is a symbol in that it may not actually be what you normally think of a beast. It could mean it as a incredibly evil and ruthless person.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
The Antichrist/The First Beast is NOT Lucifer.

I'm sure you've heard of the Holy Trinity which is...

The Father
The Son (Jesus)
The Holy Spirit

Well there's also a Unholy Trinity which is

The Dragon (Lucifer, The Devil, Satan)
The First Beast (The Antichrist, The Lawless One)
The Second Beast (The False Prophet)

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is both human and God.

The First Beast is the Son of the Dragon.
He might be both Human and Demon.

However the problem with calling the First Beast as human is that
all humans are supposed to have free will. Jesus had free will and
was therefore human. However the First Beast has no free will.
Unless of course I'm wrong on that part.

The Beast is a symbol in that it may not actually be what you normally think of a beast. It could mean it as a incredibly evil and ruthless person.

You're spouting left-wing, theological rhetoric at me. In some cultures, the Antichrist IS Lucifer. And being as the Holy Trinity is one being split into 3, so to speak, so couldn't we easily say that the Unholy Trinity is also a split of 3 entities based off the same thing, once again in 3 seperate symbols?

Some people believe the Son of God(Jesus, for all you Mormons) is God himself in human form.
Some people believe The Holy Spirit is more or less the "Voice" or "Feeling" of God.

Only problem with that is, The False Prophet is definitely not Lucifer.

Last edited by TheBlackChidori; 10-18-2010 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
You're spouting left-wing, theological rhetoric at me. In some cultures, the Antichrist IS Lucifer. And being as the Holy Trinity is one being split into 3, so to speak, so couldn't we easily say that the Unholy Trinity is also a split of 3 entities based off the same thing, once again in 3 seperate symbols?

Some people believe the Son of God(Jesus, for all you Mormons) is God himself in human form.
Some people believe The Holy Spirit is more or less the "Voice" or "Feeling" of God.

Only problem with that is, The False Prophet is definitely not Lucifer.
I'm not spouting anything. What other cultures believe the Antichrist is Lucifer? Not that I doubt that there are other cultures who think that.
But other cultures could include our good pal Harold Camping.

Yes, the Unholy Trinity would likely be a 3 in 1 type dealio.
However that still doesn't mean that Lucifer=The First Beast

With the Holy Trinity, while all 3 person are God they are not each other.
For example while both Jesus The Son and The Father are both God they
are not each other. Jesus The Son is not The Father.

The Unholy Trinity should be the same. All 3 are Anti-God for lack of a better term but they aren't each other. The Dragon and the Beasts are not the same persons. Evidence for this is provided in the following line

"They worship the dragon because it gave its authority to the beast".

If the Antichrist (The First Beast) was Lucifer (The Dragon) then it would have already had its authority to begin with.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Before I counter that, do you believe the Impossible Trinity fits into all of this?

Inconsistent trinity, unholy trinity, triangle of impossibility?


Lawl you cant use economics in a religious debate...
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:01 AM   #13
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
Before I counter that, do you believe the Impossible Trinity fits into all of this?

Inconsistent trinity, unholy trinity, triangle of impossibility?


Lawl you cant use economics in a religious debate...

I don't actually know what that is. But I imagine you're mocking my post.


Nevermind, you're not mocking my post. That's cool (even though you may still disagree with my post)
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Truth be told, I agree with most of what you said in your last post...

I just like to see how long I can bullspit my way through a debate.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
Truth be told, I agree with most of what you said in your last post...

I just like to see how long I can bullspit my way through a debate.

What parts did you disagree with then?

Do note that this isn't a Does God exist ? debate, or is my religion the right one ? debate. It's a debate within Christianity regardless of whether or not Christianity is true. While it's fine to use various denominations in your
argument you should avoid including cults claiming to be Christianity.


By cults I mean stuff like Jim Jones. Or Harold Camping.
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

I still disagree with the Antichrist not possibly being Lucifer. Perhaps not in the "physical sense"... can't think of a better term than that.... but the Antichrist's actions are going to be affected by Lucifer. Sort of a liason to his will, in the end one could say even controlled by Lucifer himself.

If we do wanna use the Bible in this argument, we could site the Temptation of Christ. In this argument, one could say that Lucifer showed just how far his reach could extend by harassing Jesus in the wilderness. Now I'm not saying that Lucifer himself would come up and claim to be the Antichrist and not give rise to his own name. For one, that'd be suicide on his part(Again, can't think of a better term). But using the Unholy Trinity as your example, you could definitely compare the relationship between Lucifer and the Antichrist to one like God and Jesus.
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:45 AM   #17
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
I still disagree with the Antichrist not possibly being Lucifer. Perhaps not in the "physical sense"... can't think of a better term than that.... but the Antichrist's actions are going to be affected by Lucifer. Sort of a liason to his will, in the end one could say even controlled by Lucifer himself.

If we do wanna use the Bible in this argument, we could site the Temptation of Christ. In this argument, one could say that Lucifer showed just how far his reach could extend by harassing Jesus in the wilderness. Now I'm not saying that Lucifer himself would come up and claim to be the Antichrist and not give rise to his own name. For one, that'd be suicide on his part(Again, can't think of a better term). But using the Unholy Trinity as your example, you could definitely compare the relationship between Lucifer and the Antichrist to one like God and Jesus.

Actually not quite.

I used the term "Anti-God" for a reason. It can be confusing when people use The Father and God interchangeably. While The Father is God, God is not always The Father (a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square...unless I got that mixed up but you should get the point.)
As I said before, in the Holy Trinity, The Father and Jesus are not the same person, however they both are God.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:37 AM   #18
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

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Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
I noticed that we had 666 threads in the debate section.
So I'd thought why not a debate on the one who bears that number?
Would the Beast or more commonly known as the Antichrist (although
the Bible does not call the Beast as such) be a human being?
I'm not saying will be a horse or something like that. The Antichrist
should be very much like a human if not actually human. However
there is one key difference. The Antichrist has no free will.
(Or if you want you could argue otherwise) anywho if the Antichrist
has no free will and is evil by nature then is it human?
Humans have the free will to choose evil or good. Yet the Antichrist
is by necessity of prophecy, evil. Then again, does God forsee the
future and lets it happen? Or does God speak the future and it happens?

Debate
Well, I dispute your premise that humans have free will. But in as much as humans do, so does the Antichrist. If it is possible for God to be fully human, yet transcendent, He can allow/design any other being to be so as well, but I don't recall any Biblical evidence that the Antichrist is anything more than a human. In all likelyhood, the Antichrist has already come and gone. There is every possibility that the Antichrist was the emperor Nero.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

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Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie View Post
Well, I dispute your premise that humans have free will. But in as much as humans do, so does the Antichrist. If it is possible for God to be fully human, yet transcendent, He can allow/design any other being to be so as well, but I don't recall any Biblical evidence that the Antichrist is anything more than a human. In all likelyhood, the Antichrist has already come and gone. There is every possibility that the Antichrist was the emperor Nero.
What makes you think humans don't have free will?
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Theological Seminar: Is the Beast of Revelations human?

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Actually not quite.

I used the term "Anti-God" for a reason. It can be confusing when people use The Father and God interchangeably. While The Father is God, God is not always The Father (a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square...unless I got that mixed up but you should get the point.)
As I said before, in the Holy Trinity, The Father and Jesus are not the same person, however they both are God.
Exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jutsu Junkie View Post
Well, I dispute your premise that humans have free will. But in as much as humans do, so does the Antichrist. If it is possible for God to be fully human, yet transcendent, He can allow/design any other being to be so as well, but I don't recall any Biblical evidence that the Antichrist is anything more than a human. In all likelyhood, the Antichrist has already come and gone. There is every possibility that the Antichrist was the emperor Nero.
How do we not have free will? I could go commit mass genocide right now, if I chose to do it. That's not free will? I could stab myself in the heart. Free will?

If we didn't have free will, the Ten Plagues would never have happened. Although your belief of Nero as the antichrist is fascinating. Some say that the Antichrist appears just to lead a civilization into downfall. But in that sense, Augustus destroyed Egypt and became the Roman Emperor. Nero was actually quite the matricidal maniac. Also his name was Lucius, named after whom?

And he played the Fiddle while Rome burned. Is Charlie Daniels a prophet?!
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