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Old 10-06-2010, 02:37 PM   #1
Shikamaru Nara
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Default Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Blind, I swear if you win, I will troll you. xDDD Anyway, good luck. Also, I'm looking for somebody to judge this.

Blind Uchiha Vs. Shikamaru Nara
__________________________________________________ ______________

Base Sasuke Vs. Neji. Yes. I said it.

Location: Akatsuki Cave where Sasori Died

Distance: 10 meters

State of Mind: In character

Restrictions: Kirin, Genjutsu, MS of all sorts, and Curse Mark. (Just added this as assurance.)

Knowledge: None

Begin.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

RAWR. Here comes my MASSIVE WALL of text. :P

I'm giving this to Sasuke.

Neji lacks the moveset to even come close to beating Sasuke, but I'll give a list of his moves and how they MAY be useful to him. (I'm starting with him because he only has like 5. XDDD)

- Juuken (Gentle Fist): A fighting style that inflicts internal damage.

This is useful for obvious reasons. If he can stay in range (Close range that is.) for a substancial amount of time, he should be able to kill Sasuke with this by turning off all of his Chakra nodes. His main attack.

- Hakkeshou Kaiten (Eight Trigrams Palms Heavenly Spin): Neji releases ckakra from his body and spins rapidly to create a small omnidirectional attack that can be used for defensive purposes. (For information on what omnidirectional means, follow the link. omnidirectional)

Useful for projectiles such as Kunai or Shuriken. If used correctly, he may even be able to whack Sasuke's sword out of his hands. It MIGHT be able to block Katon (Fire style) attacks. His main defensive move.

- Hakke Rokujuuyon Shou (Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms): Strikes the opponent 64 times and causes internal damage (specifically to their chakra points) and seals their chakra/ki.

This could do some relative damage as well as Juuken and for the same reasons. Reread if you forgot. XD

- Hakke Kuushou (Eight Trigrams Empty Palm): A palm thrust that shoots a small blast of chakra out of Neji's hand. A mid range attack.

This could block large groups of projectiles as well.

As you can see, Neji's downfall is his lack of options to attack Sasuke with.

I'll only list Sasuke's main attacks (Varients will be included one way or the other.) to make the list a bit shorter. Makes it easier for both of us.

- Chidori: Sasuke charges lightning chakra in to his hand to give his strikes a piercing effect. Variations of this include a lightning sword that can be extended up to 5 meters, lighting needle projectiles, and Chidori Nagashi; which allows Sasuke it emit lightning from his entire body.

This attack can be used offensively and defensively. It's basically the ideal attack. He can fend off material projectiles with his own Lightning Needle Projectiles.


The only possible way for Neji to be able to kill Sasuke would be with his Juuken or Hakke Rokujuuyon Shou, which would be thwarted by his Sasuke's Chidori Nagashi easily.

As to how this attack can be used offensively is clear. At close range, Neji probably would not last very long due to the varients of Chidori or just the original attack. Either way, this is Sasuke's key to winning, in a close range fight.

Kirin: Uses Dragon Missiles(a Katon jutsu) to change atmospheric conditions to create a thunderstorm, then channels a large bolt of lightning that (when powered by Amaterasu) destroyed a large pyramid-structure. Prep-time and weather conditions required.

Restricted.

Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique: Sasuke wraps his opponent in cord and shoots fire across the wires.

Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique: Sasuke breathes a dragon shaped figure of fire out of his mouth. Can be used to prep Kirin.

Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique: Breathes a large blast of fire from mouth.
Fire Release: Phoenix Immortal Fire Technique: Sasuke shoots balls of fire that can be used as a distraction or to hide shuriken.

All of his fire release jutsu are good for one thing - pushing Neji back out of range for Juuken. One of the ideal attacks.


Overall, it comes down to the fact that Neji is a close range fighter and he doesn't stand much of a chance because of that.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

I'll judge.

Last edited by Yellow Flash; 10-06-2010 at 03:18 PM. Reason: I answered it myself?... I looked at the OP.. >_>
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Part II.

Thanks.
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

NOT THIS: If by tomorrow Blind does NOT post by 3:37 PM GMT -6, the match is over. I want to be precise about the time so I don't get a free bye to the championship. But if push comes to shove, I'll gladly take it.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

I am going to agree with you on this one, Shikamaru. Sasuke takes this easily.

Speed: Sasuke is assumed to be low supersonic in short bursts, with Neji only being Sonic. This means Sasuke should be able to blitz the hell out of him. Additionally, Sasuke has supersonic reaction speed via feats such as his dodging of Amaterasu. Neji has not shown any reaction feat that even compare to that. This means that Neji probably could not even hit him.

Stamina: Neji could not maintain Kaiten for long in his PTS fight with Kidomaru, and his fight with Kisame didn't really improve upon this showing.
Sasuke, however, went from fighting at the Go-kage summit, to fighting Danzo, to fighting Kakashi and Naruto. He spammed MS techniques such as Susano'o like it was no big deal. Although, he had recovery time between the Go-kage fight and Danzo fight. This feat still shows that Sasuke should be able to easily outlast Neji in this fight.

Taijutsu: Although this is Neji's specialty. I am also going to say that Sasuke has the edge here. Sasuke's three tomoe sharingan allowed him to dodge an attack from Killer Bee in eight tails mode. Byakugan may allow for almost 360 degree vision, but when it comes to reading opponent's movements, the Sharingan is unsurpassed.

Jutsu: Sasuke also has the edge here. Neji has few offensive techniques that could actually damage Sasuke. In fact, I am going to say that there is a high possibility that Sixty Four palms would fail against Sasuke. Sasuke has shown the ability to break out of Chakra seals via his fight with Danzo by releasing large amounts of "dark chakra" in a manner very similar to Naruto's use of the Kyuubi's chakra in the Neji/Naruto chunin exam fight.

Kaiten is also not a godly, unlimited defense. If fire style attacks can't break it, Chidori can. Now for my logic on how Rotation fails to stop Chidori. Chidori>>>>Kyuubi chakra enhanced punch. Chidori is on par with Rasengan as shown in the VotE fight. The Rasengan is an extremely condensed rotating chakra. Rotation works on the same principle. However, Rotation is spread out and hence loses strength over area based on the principle of pressure. Rasengan, a far more condensed chakra sphere was negated by Chidori. Hence, Sasuke's far more condensed Chidori should easily pierce Rotation. That's not even considering that Chidori excels in piercing damage.

Sasuke also can summon his hawk and fly high above Neji and spam ranged attacks if he wanted to. Although, he certainly doesn't need to perform such an action.

Summary: Sasuke wins this unholy rape fight.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Uchiha View Post
I am going to agree with you on this one, Shikamaru. Sasuke takes this easily.

Speed: Sasuke is assumed to be low supersonic in short bursts, with Neji only being Sonic. This means Sasuke should be able to blitz the hell out of him. Additionally,Sasuke has supersonic reaction speed via feats such as his dodging of Amaterasu . Neji has not shown any reaction feat that even compare to that. This means that Neji probably could not even hit him.

Stamina: Neji could not maintain Kaiten for long in his PTS fight with Kidomaru, and his fight with Kisame didn't really improve upon this showing.
Sasuke, however, went from fighting at the Go-kage summit, to fighting Danzo, to fighting Kakashi and Naruto. He spammed MS techniques such as Susano'o like it was no big deal. Although, he had recovery time between the Go-kage fight and Danzo fight. This feat still shows that Sasuke should be able to easily outlast Neji in this fight.

Taijutsu: Although this is Neji's specialty. I am also going to say that Sasuke has the edge here. Sasuke's three tomoe sharingan allowed him to dodge an attack from Killer Bee in eight tails mode. Byakugan may allow for almost 360 degree vision, but when it comes to reading opponent's movements, the Sharingan is unsurpassed.

Jutsu: Sasuke also has the edge here. Neji has few offensive techniques that could actually damage Sasuke. In fact, I am going to say that there is a high possibility that Sixty Four palms would fail against Sasuke. Sasuke has shown the ability to break out of Chakra seals via his fight with Danzo by releasing large amounts of "dark chakra" in a manner very similar to Naruto's use of the Kyuubi's chakra in the Neji/Naruto chunin exam fight.

Kaiten is also not a godly, unlimited defense. If fire style attacks can't break it, Chidori can. Now for my logic on how Rotation fails to stop Chidori. Chidori>>>>Kyuubi chakra enhanced punch. Chidori is on par with Rasengan as shown in the VotE fight. The Rasengan is an extremely condensed rotating chakra. Rotation works on the same principle. However, Rotation is spread out and hence loses strength over area based on the principle of pressure. Rasengan, a far more condensed chakra sphere was negated by Chidori. Hence, Sasuke's far more condensed Chidori should easily pierce Rotation. That's not even considering that Chidori excels in piercing damage.

Sasuke also can summon his hawk and fly high above Neji and spam ranged attacks if he wanted to. Although, he certainly doesn't need to perform such an action.

Summary: Sasuke wins this unholy rape fight.
Neji isn't even close to being Sonic. He couldn't even completely evade Kidomaru's Arrows. Plus, to back up the statement, I looked at the MVBG. Here is his speed stat, word for word.

Quote:
Speed: Faster than the eye can see


I'm pretty sure that doesn't say Sonic. :/


"Spammed them like they were nothing." He flinched, he bled, and he was in pain. It was made clear. And I'm pretty sure that if your eyes were bleeding, you would be in pain. Just a thought. He didn't spam them like it was nothing.
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Old 10-07-2010, 09:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
Neji isn't even close to being Sonic. He couldn't even completely evade Kidomaru's Arrows. Plus, to back up the statement, I looked at the MVBG. Here is his speed stat, word for word.



I'm pretty sure that doesn't say Sonic. :/


"Spammed them like they were nothing." He flinched, he bled, and he was in pain. It was made clear. And I'm pretty sure that if your eyes were bleeding, you would be in pain. Just a thought. He didn't spam them like it was nothing.
Either way he gets roflblitzed. Additionally, he hasn't received any good calcs. The speed stats are given via power scaling :/

Turn of phrase. The main fact was that he maintained use of said powers for an extended period of time. Neji has nothing that could even compare.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Wait, is it alright that Shika is making the fight for his own match? Just asking.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

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Either way he gets roflblitzed. Additionally, he hasn't received any good calcs. The speed stats are given via power scaling :/

Turn of phrase. The main fact was that he maintained use of said powers for an extended period of time. Neji has nothing that could even compare.

I wouldn't have made the comment if we were debating on the same side. Just try to pick out errors. I explained this in the rules.

So? Show me Sasuke calcs.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

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Wait, is it alright that Shika is making the fight for his own match? Just asking.
*Cough*
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

I see no objections as to why not. Anyway, if Blind doesn't post, Flash should judge.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Should I judge it now?
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Go ahead.
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Old 10-09-2010, 07:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
RAWR. Here comes my MASSIVE WALL of text. :P

I'm giving this to Sasuke.

Neji lacks the moveset to even come close to beating Sasuke, but I'll give a list of his moves and how they MAY be useful to him. (I'm starting with him because he only has like 5. XDDD)

- Juuken (Gentle Fist): A fighting style that inflicts internal damage.

This is useful for obvious reasons. If he can stay in range (Close range that is.) for a substancial amount of time, he should be able to kill Sasuke with this by turning off all of his Chakra nodes. His main attack.

- Hakkeshou Kaiten (Eight Trigrams Palms Heavenly Spin): Neji releases ckakra from his body and spins rapidly to create a small omnidirectional attack that can be used for defensive purposes. (For information on what omnidirectional means, follow the link. omnidirectional)

Useful for projectiles such as Kunai or Shuriken. If used correctly, he may even be able to whack Sasuke's sword out of his hands. It MIGHT be able to block Katon (Fire style) attacks. His main defensive move.

- Hakke Rokujuuyon Shou (Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms): Strikes the opponent 64 times and causes internal damage (specifically to their chakra points) and seals their chakra/ki.

This could do some relative damage as well as Juuken and for the same reasons. Reread if you forgot. XD

- Hakke Kuushou (Eight Trigrams Empty Palm): A palm thrust that shoots a small blast of chakra out of Neji's hand. A mid range attack.

This could block large groups of projectiles as well.

As you can see, Neji's downfall is his lack of options to attack Sasuke with.

I'll only list Sasuke's main attacks (Varients will be included one way or the other.) to make the list a bit shorter. Makes it easier for both of us.

- Chidori: Sasuke charges lightning chakra in to his hand to give his strikes a piercing effect. Variations of this include a lightning sword that can be extended up to 5 meters, lighting needle projectiles, and Chidori Nagashi; which allows Sasuke it emit lightning from his entire body.

This attack can be used offensively and defensively. It's basically the ideal attack. He can fend off material projectiles with his own Lightning Needle Projectiles.


The only possible way for Neji to be able to kill Sasuke would be with his Juuken or Hakke Rokujuuyon Shou, which would be thwarted by his Sasuke's Chidori Nagashi easily.

As to how this attack can be used offensively is clear. At close range, Neji probably would not last very long due to the varients of Chidori or just the original attack. Either way, this is Sasuke's key to winning, in a close range fight.

Kirin: Uses Dragon Missiles(a Katon jutsu) to change atmospheric conditions to create a thunderstorm, then channels a large bolt of lightning that (when powered by Amaterasu) destroyed a large pyramid-structure. Prep-time and weather conditions required.

Restricted.

Fire Release: Dragon Fire Technique: Sasuke wraps his opponent in cord and shoots fire across the wires.

Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique: Sasuke breathes a dragon shaped figure of fire out of his mouth. Can be used to prep Kirin.

Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique: Breathes a large blast of fire from mouth.
Fire Release: Phoenix Immortal Fire Technique: Sasuke shoots balls of fire that can be used as a distraction or to hide shuriken.

All of his fire release jutsu are good for one thing - pushing Neji back out of range for Juuken. One of the ideal attacks.


Overall, it comes down to the fact that Neji is a close range fighter and he doesn't stand much of a chance because of that.
You used to much information from the web. I feel like it's really not even you debating. Just as a note, using things in your own words makes a nuch better image for your debate and would potentially give you the upper hand. Good evaluation, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Uchiha View Post
I am going to agree with you on this one, Shikamaru. Sasuke takes this easily.

Speed: Sasuke is assumed to be low supersonic in short bursts, with Neji only being Sonic. This means Sasuke should be able to blitz the hell out of him. Additionally, Sasuke has supersonic reaction speed via feats such as his dodging of Amaterasu. Neji has not shown any reaction feat that even compare to that. This means that Neji probably could not even hit him.

Stamina: Neji could not maintain Kaiten for long in his PTS fight with Kidomaru, and his fight with Kisame didn't really improve upon this showing.
Sasuke, however, went from fighting at the Go-kage summit, to fighting Danzo, to fighting Kakashi and Naruto. He spammed MS techniques such as Susano'o like it was no big deal. Although, he had recovery time between the Go-kage fight and Danzo fight. This feat still shows that Sasuke should be able to easily outlast Neji in this fight.

Taijutsu: Although this is Neji's specialty. I am also going to say that Sasuke has the edge here. Sasuke's three tomoe sharingan allowed him to dodge an attack from Killer Bee in eight tails mode. Byakugan may allow for almost 360 degree vision, but when it comes to reading opponent's movements, the Sharingan is unsurpassed.

Jutsu: Sasuke also has the edge here. Neji has few offensive techniques that could actually damage Sasuke. In fact, I am going to say that there is a high possibility that Sixty Four palms would fail against Sasuke. Sasuke has shown the ability to break out of Chakra seals via his fight with Danzo by releasing large amounts of "dark chakra" in a manner very similar to Naruto's use of the Kyuubi's chakra in the Neji/Naruto chunin exam fight.

Kaiten is also not a godly, unlimited defense. If fire style attacks can't break it, Chidori can. Now for my logic on how Rotation fails to stop Chidori. Chidori>>>>Kyuubi chakra enhanced punch. Chidori is on par with Rasengan as shown in the VotE fight. The Rasengan is an extremely condensed rotating chakra. Rotation works on the same principle. However, Rotation is spread out and hence loses strength over area based on the principle of pressure. Rasengan, a far more condensed chakra sphere was negated by Chidori. Hence, Sasuke's far more condensed Chidori should easily pierce Rotation. That's not even considering that Chidori excels in piercing damage.

Sasuke also can summon his hawk and fly high above Neji and spam ranged attacks if he wanted to. Although, he certainly doesn't need to perform such an action.

Summary: Sasuke wins this unholy rape fight.
Wow, I'm impressed. You depicted the fight very well, right down to the small details even. I like how you gave supporting arguments on how Sasuke would defeat him, and then an argument showing how Neji couldn't do anything against Sasuke and how Sasuke would defend himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
Neji isn't even close to being Sonic. He couldn't even completely evade Kidomaru's Arrows. Plus, to back up the statement, I looked at the MVBG. Here is his speed stat, word for word.



I'm pretty sure that doesn't say Sonic. :/


"Spammed them like they were nothing." He flinched, he bled, and he was in pain. It was made clear. And I'm pretty sure that if your eyes were bleeding, you would be in pain. Just a thought. He didn't spam them like it was nothing.
Again, your using an external source as the main fight force of your debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Uchiha View Post
Either way he gets roflblitzed. Additionally, he hasn't received any good calcs. The speed stats are given via power scaling :/

Turn of phrase. The main fact was that he maintained use of said powers for an extended period of time. Neji has nothing that could even compare.
Basic response.

First off, you both did great. I like how you both kept it civilized and used facts instead of hype to support your debate.

Shikamaru: You post a lot of jutsu's and reason why this played a vital roll in the victory. Just make sure that this isn't the main force in your debate, makes it seem almost like your not even the one debating.

Blind: You provided excellent reason as to why components from Neji's offensive and defensive style wouldn't be able to harm or defend against Sasuke's. Great job on providing pure knowledge based debate.

Again, you both did a great job.

Final Verdict:
Spoiler:
Blind seem to provide better reasons to why this would happen and why this wouldn't happen. Congratulations Blind, and good luck in the next round.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Oh well.

Nice job, Blind.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

You both did well, but Shikamaru, next time you shouldn't stick to the MVBG. Not trying to hate, but it has a lot of inaccuracies and it's better to provide feats and manga proof rather than MVBG stuff.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuromaki View Post
You both did well, but Shikamaru, next time you shouldn't stick to the MVBG. Not trying to hate, but it has a lot of inaccuracies and it's better to provide feats and manga proof rather than MVBG stuff.
I mostly used the OBD Wiki. Imo, MVBG sucks.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:32 AM   #19
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
I mostly used the OBD Wiki. Imo, MVBG sucks.
Quote:
Plus, to back up the statement, I looked at the MVBG.
Mhmm.

I see that you used the OBD wiki for the other one, but you should still explain things in your own words.
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Debate Contest Round 6 - The stakes are high!

It's not that MVBG sucks and to be honest it doesn't.
It's just the fact people rely too heavily on it for information.

I remember one dude was sticking with Kakuzu was class 50 just because it said that in the wiki, it was pretty hilarious.
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