Infinity

[ベーゼル]

I believe infinity does not exist because what is infinite? How can we know it is infinite? What are the logical conclusions of infinity? So, does infinity still exist to you?

[ItachiAnbu]

Originally Posted by ベーゼル

I believe infinity does not exist because what is infinite? How can we know it is infinite? What are the logical conclusions of infinity? So, does infinity still exist to you?

Yes. Though I have yet to see a physical example of infinity, the theory still makes sense to me.

Spoiler:

In physics, approximations of real numbers are used for continuous measurements and natural numbers are used for discrete measurements (i.e. counting). It is therefore assumed by physicists that no measureable quantity could have an infinite value, for instance by taking an infinite value in an extended real number system, or by requiring the counting of an infinite number of events. It is for example presumed impossible for any body to have infinite mass or infinite energy. Concepts of infinite things such as an infinite plane wave exist, but there are no experimental means to generate them.

Just think about the "number line." Or the idea of an infinite line in geometry. It's the same idea.

There is no end to a number line. Therefore, it is not finite. So, according to the theory, it must be infinite.

[Black Shuck]

It is just a concept to explain a limitless amount of quantity. It doesn't have to exist.

[ItachiAnbu]

Originally Posted by Black Shuck

It is just a concept to explain a limitless amount of quantity. It doesn't have to exist.

True. It exists as a concept.

[Shikamaru Nara]

In mathematics, we do not treat "infinity" as a number, though it is
often used that way informally. Rather, we say that something is
"infinite," which simply means that it is unbounded or unlimited or
unending. (That is what the Latin word from which we get the English
word means.) There is no object called "infinity" that you can point
out.

What you are really asking is, how do we know that any particular
entity has no end? The answer depends on the entity you are talking
about. In mathematics, we deal only with abstract entities like the
whole numbers or integers, and by definition those are infinite, just
because there is nothing in our definitions that makes them stop. This
doesn't mean that all of the infinitely many possible numbers can ever
be used; on the contrary, it says that no one can ever use up all the
numbers, even if time does go on forever.

Similarly, in geometry we are dealing with an ideal plane or space
that has no limits; this has nothing to do with whether actual space
ends, or curves back on itself, or whatever. For practical purposes
even in physics, we usually think of space as flat and unbounded; but
if you are working on a problem in relativity where you go beyond
small spaces and speeds, you have to start taking curvature and
possible limits into account. So infinity in physics usually results
from ignoring parts of reality in order to have a manageable
abstraction to work with; in math it results from not caring about the
real world itself in the first place.

So how do we prove that "the infinite" actually exists? It exists _by
definition_, but only in my mind. "I think it, therefore it exists."
If you want to know whether anything in the _real world_ is infinite,
you have to ask a physicist - or, better, a theologian, since I don't
think science could ever prove that anything is true beyond the bounds
of what we can observe.

[Black Shuck]

^By, Dr. Peterson. ;)

[Wooster]

Easy. Two parallel lines intersect at infinity.

Easy peasy to contemplate that.

[Kiseki]

You mean with touchable things... or imagined things?
Touchables can go on and on.. etc. till infinity.
But things like.. life, every living thing. No. It will end somewhere.
Unless you believe things can survive black holes etc.

[ベーゼル]

Okay I will elaborate everything again since I should have explain it with details.

Does infinity exist? As in is there such a thing as infinity in reality, not merely as a concept. So is the universe/multiverse of infinite size, is time infinite.

What is infinite? I am not asking what is infinity (as in defining it), but rather what is of infinite value.

How can we know it is infinite? How do we know that it is infinite.

What are the logical conclusion of infinity? How can it end and how it can not end?

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

In mathematics, we do not treat "infinity" as a number, though it is
often used that way informally. Rather, we say that something is
"infinite," which simply means that it is unbounded or unlimited or
unending. (That is what the Latin word from which we get the English
word means.) There is no object called "infinity" that you can point
out.

What you are really asking is, how do we know that any particular
entity has no end? The answer depends on the entity you are talking
about. In mathematics, we deal only with abstract entities like the
whole numbers or integers, and by definition those are infinite, just
because there is nothing in our definitions that makes them stop. This
doesn't mean that all of the infinitely many possible numbers can ever
be used; on the contrary, it says that no one can ever use up all the
numbers, even if time does go on forever.

Similarly, in geometry we are dealing with an ideal plane or space
that has no limits; this has nothing to do with whether actual space
ends, or curves back on itself, or whatever. For practical purposes
even in physics, we usually think of space as flat and unbounded; but
if you are working on a problem in relativity where you go beyond
small spaces and speeds, you have to start taking curvature and
possible limits into account. So infinity in physics usually results
from ignoring parts of reality in order to have a manageable
abstraction to work with; in math it results from not caring about the
real world itself in the first place.

So how do we prove that "the infinite" actually exists? It exists _by
definition_, but only in my mind. "I think it, therefore it exists."
If you want to know whether anything in the _real world_ is infinite,
you have to ask a physicist - or, better, a theologian, since I don't
think science could ever prove that anything is true beyond the bounds
of what we can observe.

I first like to say, thank you to Shikamaru Nara for being my opponent for this debate. Thank you for participating, I hope we'll have a fine and interesting debate. Ok let's start.

Only through math can it can be infinity However, to elaborate,
does infinity exist - as in is there such a thing as infinity in reality, not merely as a concept. So is the universe/multiverse of infinite size, is time infinite.

If you say math and physic can't be related into the real world or reality. What is currency doing in the real world? Furthermore, if we don't care about the real world and using mathematic and physic to solve the details in infinity of the universe/multiverse, it would not be accurate? If you say math and physic should be ignore to the real world.

If math and physic does not exist in the real world what is math and physic to us in this real world?

Only through your mind, you think infinity can exist such like number can go on forever as long as we constantly add numbers after numbers?

In reality and math, they are two completely different things? Therefore, geometry can be infinity but space (universe/multiverse) an reality can't be infinity. Space can't be infinity because how do we know the universe/multiverse is infinity?

Haha, no I am not here to solve something that is be on uncountable. Although I am here to argue nicely in this debate.

Since we understand now that physic and math can't be use in the real world, from what you have told us; is that how you believe infinity exist. Because math and physic is not use in the real world. Therefore you assume your mind can think it's infinity?

Thanks for the advice, I will look into seeing one and hoping to getting my questions answered. However, let's debate with are only knowledge, to make this debate more interesting and educational.

I now turn the debate over to Shikamaru Nara.

Originally Posted by ItachiAnbu

Yes. Though I have yet to see a physical example of infinity, the theory still makes sense to me.

Spoiler:

In physics, approximations of real numbers are used for continuous measurements and natural numbers are used for discrete measurements (i.e. counting). It is therefore assumed by physicists that no measureable quantity could have an infinite value, for instance by taking an infinite value in an extended real number system, or by requiring the counting of an infinite number of events. It is for example presumed impossible for any body to have infinite mass or infinite energy. Concepts of infinite things such as an infinite plane wave exist, but there are no experimental means to generate them.

Just think about the "number line." Or the idea of an infinite line in geometry. It's the same idea.

There is no end to a number line. Therefore, it is not finite. So, according to the theory, it must be infinite.

I first like to say, thank you to ItachiAnbu for being my opponent for this debate. Thank you for participating, I hope we'll have a fine and interesting debate. Ok let's start.

What I meant is does infinity exist in reality. However, you are correct counting can be infinity.

I now turn the debate over to ItachiAnbu.

Originally Posted by Black Shuck

It is just a concept to explain a limitless amount of quantity. It doesn't have to exist.

I first like to say, thank you to Black Shuck for being my opponent for this debate. Thank you for participating, I hope we'll have a fine and interesting debate. Ok let's start.

What I mean by does infinity exist - As in is there such a thing as infinitiy in reality, not merely as a concept.

I now turn the debate over to Black Shunk.

[Rasengan-]

Our mind itself is infinite - consciousness is reality as appeared to self. Is this where this all is going?

consciousness is the prime example - in both physical and mental form.
And 'time' is one, but it seem that's not the answer you are looking for.

[ukiyo]

when you divide by zero

[Kakashi Hatake_Yamato]

i think it just means endless too. but when i hear the word infinite or infinity, i think of space. its vast and no one knows alot about it...very mysterious

[Azal]

Originally Posted by ItachiAnbu

Yes. Though I have yet to see a physical example of infinity, the theory still makes sense to me.

Spoiler:

In physics, approximations of real numbers are used for continuous measurements and natural numbers are used for discrete measurements (i.e. counting). It is therefore assumed by physicists that no measureable quantity could have an infinite value, for instance by taking an infinite value in an extended real number system, or by requiring the counting of an infinite number of events. It is for example presumed impossible for any body to have infinite mass or infinite energy. Concepts of infinite things such as an infinite plane wave exist, but there are no experimental means to generate them.

Just think about the "number line." Or the idea of an infinite line in geometry. It's the same idea.

There is no end to a number line. Therefore, it is not finite. So, according to the theory, it must be infinite.

was the entire lecture in the spoiler box necessary -_-

[NaruGaar. <3]

Originally Posted by ItachiAnbu

Yes. Though I have yet to see a physical example of infinity, the theory still makes sense to me.

Just think about the "number line." Or the idea of an infinite line in geometry. It's the same idea.

There is no end to a number line. Therefore, it is not finite. So, according to the theory, it must be infinite.

*********
yeahh the number line thing got me too. yoo can just keep adding numbers andd yoo will never get to the point where yoo can properly end with an ending number. in my eyes, the number line is definately infinate. theres not much proof than the fact that yoo wont be able to stop county at any point..

unless yoo give up becuz yoo can barely get to a million. lmao. [mee.] aha.

[Black Shuck]

Originally Posted by ベーゼル

I first like to say, thank you to Black Shuck for being my opponent for this debate. Thank you for participating, I hope we'll have a fine and interesting debate. Ok let's start.

What I mean by does infinity exist - As in is there such a thing as infinitiy in reality, not merely as a concept.

I now turn the debate over to Black Shunck.

The shortest answer is NO. But predictably, it is not simple as that.

[Rasengan-]

Money? - Credit or paper.

It is infinite, it is only constrained by inflationary pressures and other key economic variables.

Trillions of capital (money) is exchanged on the world markets. Last figures were 1.5 trillion in US dollars. So there is no limit to them.

[Chidori of Death]

The concept of inifinity is just that, a concept, no proof of it exist, yet like god, we believe it does.

[Chidori of Death]

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

Money? - Credit or paper.

It is infinite, it is only constrained by inflationary pressures and other key economic variables.

Trillions of capital (money) is exchanged on the world markets. Last figures were 1.5 trillion in US dollars. So there is no limit to them.

Money is created.You have to use a supply of a product to create.Eventually that supply will run out.So No.

[lolohwd]

if theres a such thing as nothingness then id believe in an infinite amount

[Rasengan-]

Originally Posted by Chidori of Death

Money is created.You have to use a supply of a product to create.Eventually that supply will run out.So No.

Not exactly, anything thing can be money. Commodity money for example, we could transform the nature of money but we will always have money as a means of exchange. Therefore, money just determine value. Value is infinite.

But I also suggested "credit" we don't actually need money at hand, just something to represent value.

But we can't ignore the concept of reproduction as well.