Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki

Shikamaru Nara · 10-26-2010, 01:50 PM

No Restrictions
Mindset : Bloodlusted
Knowledge:Full
Distance : 28 Meters
Pain has 4 bodies : Tendou,Gakidou (HGR), Asura (Shuradou\Demon), Human

The 1st Hokage · 10-26-2010, 02:29 PM

Um, why isn't that match up there? Was it PMed to the participants.

Blind Uchiha · 10-26-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara

No Restrictions
Mindset : Bloodlusted
Knowledge:Full
Distance : 28 Meters
Pain has 4 bodies : Tendou,Gakidou (HGR), Asura (Shuradou\Demon), Human

Who is fighting who?

Shikamaru Nara · 10-27-2010, 04:55 AM

xDDD

My bad, Itachi Vs. Pain. Thought I put that up.

Kuromaki · 10-27-2010, 06:20 AM

Pain wins.

With full knowledge, Itachi will probably try to be more cautious, possibly even putting up Susanoo, since he's bloodlusted and he knows Susanoo is a great defense for any of Pain's attacks (except for Chibaku Tensei, which Pain can use if Itachi gives him any trouble). Susanoo, however, puts Itachi at a disadvantage as well, because it weakens him and Pain knows how to counter it. Pain can just run away and avoid the sword until Itachi runs out of energy. It's arguable that Preta can absorb part of it as well, as it it made of chakra, but not the spiritual parts.

Amaterasu or any ninjutsu tech is easily countered by Preta's absorbing technique, and the fast paths may be able to dodge it at a farther range. Deva path, who's the priority, could likely avoid it since he was able to avoid a point blank range Rasenshuriken, which crossed the mountain-sized Chibaku Tensei crater in about a second. Human reacted to Rasenshuriken as well, pushing Animal out of its way in the beginning of Naruto vs. Pain, and Preta reacted to it in Chapter 433 page 10. Asura, on the other hand, kept up with Kakashi. This also goes along with speed, since Itachi won't be blitzing or gaining the speed advantage any time soon.

With genjutsu, the main threat is Tsukuyomi, seeing as Itachi's bloodlusted. Pain however, knows about this, and he could have some paths fight with their eyes closed while the others are on lookout. Short range genjutsu, which can also be a threat, can't affect more than one of them at once, and Pain can just stay out of range since he has long ranged attacks too, such as missiles or head laser. Short range also isn't that good for Itachi with Deva's gravity based attacks, Preta's chakra absorption and Human soul suck. 28m is already kind of short, but Pain can gain distance and there are ways to get away from Itachi like Shinra Tensei or missiles.

Clone tricks are countered by Human's taijutsu and Asura's missiles, and they won't have that much of an impact on the most important path, Deva, who kept up with SM Naruto and has his other paths ready to protect him. It's arguable that he also tanked part of a 6 tailed chakra blast so Clone Explosion won't do any good, and there's always Shinra Tensei to repel them.

Itachi's stamina is a problem for him as using his best techniques tire him out. Pain on the other hand, stomped a whole village and still went toe to toe with SM Naruto.

Lastly, Itachi has no defense against Chibaku Tensei, so he better hope Pain doesn't use it. Everything else can be countered by Susanoo, which puts him at a disadvantage like I said before.

Blind Uchiha · 10-27-2010, 08:23 PM

I agree that the paths of Pain take this with some difficulty.

Speed

Several of the paths of pain have been calculated at near to low supersonic speeds. Itachi is believed to be low supersonic as well. As such neither side has a speed advantage. If Itachi does not use Susano'o at any point during the battle, the Paths of Pain should be able to surround and overwhelm him since he does not possess any other omnidirectional defenses. It should also be noted that Asura can greatly increase his speed via Chakra propulsion boots.

Durability

A couple of the paths of Pain, particularly Deva and Asura, have shown exceptional durability feats. Asura survived a double super giant slap from Choza and Choji. Deva tanked a reverse Shinra Tensei, and arguably part of KN6's menacing ball. Itachi, on the other hand, hasn't shown much in the ways of natural durability. His best tanking feat with out susano'o is taking a hit from one of Sasuke's shadow shuriken which is stated to be a weak attack.

Stamina

Although most of the paths of pain were defeated by Naruto early in the Naruto vs Pain fight, they had been fighting all the fodder ninjas in Konoha for a while. In fact, the fight for Konoha could have taken a couple hours. This would give the paths of pain a high stamina to be able to fight that long. Not counting the battle for Konoha, Deva still showed impressive stamina by creating a village busting Chou Shinra Tensei, fighting hand to hand with SM Naruto, taking on KN6, and lastly creating a Chibaku Tensei capable of restraining KN6.

Itachi, however, has not shown anywhere near the level of stamina Deva and arguably the rest of the paths have shown. His disease caused him to falter even when attempting to dodge basic attacks such as Sasuke's shadow shuriken. This attack was used relatively early in the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Additionally, the use of any of his MS techniques tires him immensely. His inability to maintain the use of his MS techniques for an extended period of time will be his downfall in this fight.

Jutsus

The short and fast of this is Pain has more diverse and powerful jutsus than Itachi. In fact, Pain has two jutsus that Itachi has no real counter for, Chibaku Tensei and Chou Shinra Tensei. Chibaku Tensei would crush Itachi whether he used Susano'o or not. Chou Shinra Tensei should break Susano'o and Itachi with pure force as it destroyed more than half of Konoha. Although Susano'o may protect against Pain's other jutsus, jutsus such as Chakra Missiles, Soul Removal, and Laser Explosion should definitely cause Itachi trouble should he not use Susano'o.

Although Itachi may not have the edge here, his jutsus are nothing to be taken lightly in this fight. Susano'o is the main jutsu that Itachi will depend on in this fight. It will protect him from most of Pain's jutsu and also provide him with an excellent attack in the form of the sword of Totsuka. However, it is highly unlikely that Itachi could maintain this jutsu for long. The paths of pain will also know to avoid Itachi while using Susano'o which will greatly limit it's effectiveness.

Tsukuyomi and other genjutsu may have no effect on Pain due to the fact that they are corpses and not under control by Nagato. However should they work, the paths of pain possess full knowledge on how to avoid getting caught in Itachi's genjutsu. Preta may also be able to get another path out of genjutsu via his ability to suck chakra.

Amaterasu also has it's disadvantages in this fight. It can arguably be absorbed by Preta should it hit a path, and repelled by Shinra Tensei straight back at Itachi.

Clone tricks worked on Human path in the manga due to plot induced stupidity. With full knowledge, Pain should easily be able to handle clones with anyone of a variety of jutsu or taijutsu.

Kuromaki · 10-27-2010, 09:25 PM

If sound based genjutsu worked, why not Itachi's genjutsu? Granted, the paths have info on that and they know Itachi is a genjutsu user so they can figure out ways to avoid getting caught, and like I said they have long range jutsu to counter this too.

Susanoo durability with the Yata Mirror is not to be taken lightly, and it might be able to tank Chou Shinra Tensei, considering that its ribs alone took Kirin (and possibly even tanked it fully, depending on how you interpret what happened). Regardless, the paths know about Susanoo and I've listed ways to counter it. And Pain can always use Chibaku Tensei which screws Itachi over either way.

There's not much to debate here since we agree on the winner..

Blind Uchiha · 10-28-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

If sound based genjutsu worked, why not Itachi's genjutsu? Granted, the paths have info on that and they know Itachi is a genjutsu user so they can figure out ways to avoid getting caught, and like I said they have long range jutsu to counter this too.

Genjutsu worked on Nagato and in turn affected the paths, but I suppose since they are not under control by Nagato it may or may not still affect them.

Susanoo durability with the Yata Mirror is not to be taken lightly, and it might be able to tank Chou Shinra Tensei, considering that its ribs alone took Kirin (and possibly even tanked it fully, depending on how you interpret what happened). Regardless, the paths know about Susanoo and I've listed ways to counter it. And Pain can always use Chibaku Tensei which screws Itachi over either way.

Kirin busted a small hill, and left wreckage of the Uchiha hideout which was on top of said hilll. Chou Shinra Tensei literally left a crater where over half of Konoha used to exist. Should Itachi be caught anywhere in the initial blast zone, I doubt Susano'o could tank it.

Agreed.

There's not much to debate here since we agree on the winner..

In red.

Kuromaki · 10-28-2010, 07:52 PM

This is the Yata Mirror we're talking about, although Deva could do something to Susanoo while it's still forming and there's no guarantee that the Yata Mirror will tank a village buster. I was just playing it safe.

Blind Uchiha · 10-28-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

This is the Yata Mirror we're talking about, although Deva could do something to Susanoo while it's still forming and there's no guarantee that the Yata Mirror will tank a village buster. I was just playing it safe.

Yeah, I admit that Yata Mirror may be able to tank it, but then again it is more hype than anything else as it hasn't really been shown to tank anything as powerful as Chou Shinra Tensei.

I think we are in full agreement otherwise.

Kuromaki · 10-28-2010, 08:11 PM

Ok, since we agree, this can be judged now. Good luck.

Blind Uchiha · 10-28-2010, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

Ok, since we agree, this can be judged now. Good luck.

Same to you. I really enjoyed typing that out. T'was fun.

Blind Uchiha · 10-31-2010, 03:41 PM

Awaiting judgment.

Kuromaki · 11-06-2010, 08:49 PM

Still waiting.

Is Shikamaru the only judge?

Blind Uchiha · 11-06-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

Still waiting.

Is Shikamaru the only judge?

I think Flash and First are judges as well.

Kuromaki · 11-06-2010, 08:53 PM

Oh.

Gaiz, it's not a very long debate.

Shikamaru Nara · 11-07-2010, 10:22 AM

Been out for a while. I can't do it now, but I likely will soon.

Wooster · 11-07-2010, 10:25 AM

Hate to interfere, but the list of contestants has been unstickied. Thus, I don't know who needs more than one round of rep besides Kuromaki and Blind.

Shikamaru Nara · 11-07-2010, 10:26 AM

Me, First, X I believe. I can't find it.

Shikamaru Nara · 11-07-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

None of the people in this match up are anywhere near sonic level's of speed.

You do know this is only for the two participants, correct?

10-26-2010, 01:50 PM	#1
Shikamaru Nara Super \| ɹoʇɐɹǝpoW Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 43,792 Rep Power: 42 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 Total Points: 4	Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki No Restrictions Mindset : Bloodlusted Knowledge:Full Distance : 28 Meters Pain has 4 bodies : Tendou,Gakidou (HGR), Asura (Shuradou\Demon), Human __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-27-2010, 04:55 AM	#4
Shikamaru Nara Super \| ɹoʇɐɹǝpoW Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 43,792 Rep Power: 42 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 Total Points: 4	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki xDDD My bad, Itachi Vs. Pain. Thought I put that up. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-27-2010, 06:20 AM	#5
Kuromaki Sage of Starbucks Coffee Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: holla holla get $ Posts: 18,098 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Pain wins. With full knowledge, Itachi will probably try to be more cautious, possibly even putting up Susanoo, since he's bloodlusted and he knows Susanoo is a great defense for any of Pain's attacks (except for Chibaku Tensei, which Pain can use if Itachi gives him any trouble). Susanoo, however, puts Itachi at a disadvantage as well, because it weakens him and Pain knows how to counter it. Pain can just run away and avoid the sword until Itachi runs out of energy. It's arguable that Preta can absorb part of it as well, as it it made of chakra, but not the spiritual parts. Amaterasu or any ninjutsu tech is easily countered by Preta's absorbing technique, and the fast paths may be able to dodge it at a farther range. Deva path, who's the priority, could likely avoid it since he was able to avoid a point blank range Rasenshuriken, which crossed the mountain-sized Chibaku Tensei crater in about a second. Human reacted to Rasenshuriken as well, pushing Animal out of its way in the beginning of Naruto vs. Pain, and Preta reacted to it in Chapter 433 page 10. Asura, on the other hand, kept up with Kakashi. This also goes along with speed, since Itachi won't be blitzing or gaining the speed advantage any time soon. With genjutsu, the main threat is Tsukuyomi, seeing as Itachi's bloodlusted. Pain however, knows about this, and he could have some paths fight with their eyes closed while the others are on lookout. Short range genjutsu, which can also be a threat, can't affect more than one of them at once, and Pain can just stay out of range since he has long ranged attacks too, such as missiles or head laser. Short range also isn't that good for Itachi with Deva's gravity based attacks, Preta's chakra absorption and Human soul suck. 28m is already kind of short, but Pain can gain distance and there are ways to get away from Itachi like Shinra Tensei or missiles. Clone tricks are countered by Human's taijutsu and Asura's missiles, and they won't have that much of an impact on the most important path, Deva, who kept up with SM Naruto and has his other paths ready to protect him. It's arguable that he also tanked part of a 6 tailed chakra blast so Clone Explosion won't do any good, and there's always Shinra Tensei to repel them. Itachi's stamina is a problem for him as using his best techniques tire him out. Pain on the other hand, stomped a whole village and still went toe to toe with SM Naruto. Lastly, Itachi has no defense against Chibaku Tensei, so he better hope Pain doesn't use it. Everything else can be countered by Susanoo, which puts him at a disadvantage like I said before. __________________ My reaction to 599 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-27-2010, 08:23 PM	#6
Blind Uchiha formerly Kuroi Kagai Lightning Amp Disciple Justice of the BG Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Virtual Reality Posts: 4,659 Rep Power: 14 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki I agree that the paths of Pain take this with some difficulty. Speed Several of the paths of pain have been calculated at near to low supersonic speeds. Itachi is believed to be low supersonic as well. As such neither side has a speed advantage. If Itachi does not use Susano'o at any point during the battle, the Paths of Pain should be able to surround and overwhelm him since he does not possess any other omnidirectional defenses. It should also be noted that Asura can greatly increase his speed via Chakra propulsion boots. Durability A couple of the paths of Pain, particularly Deva and Asura, have shown exceptional durability feats. Asura survived a double super giant slap from Choza and Choji. Deva tanked a reverse Shinra Tensei, and arguably part of KN6's menacing ball. Itachi, on the other hand, hasn't shown much in the ways of natural durability. His best tanking feat with out susano'o is taking a hit from one of Sasuke's shadow shuriken which is stated to be a weak attack. Stamina Although most of the paths of pain were defeated by Naruto early in the Naruto vs Pain fight, they had been fighting all the fodder ninjas in Konoha for a while. In fact, the fight for Konoha could have taken a couple hours. This would give the paths of pain a high stamina to be able to fight that long. Not counting the battle for Konoha, Deva still showed impressive stamina by creating a village busting Chou Shinra Tensei, fighting hand to hand with SM Naruto, taking on KN6, and lastly creating a Chibaku Tensei capable of restraining KN6. Itachi, however, has not shown anywhere near the level of stamina Deva and arguably the rest of the paths have shown. His disease caused him to falter even when attempting to dodge basic attacks such as Sasuke's shadow shuriken. This attack was used relatively early in the Sasuke vs Itachi fight. Additionally, the use of any of his MS techniques tires him immensely. His inability to maintain the use of his MS techniques for an extended period of time will be his downfall in this fight. Jutsus The short and fast of this is Pain has more diverse and powerful jutsus than Itachi. In fact, Pain has two jutsus that Itachi has no real counter for, Chibaku Tensei and Chou Shinra Tensei. Chibaku Tensei would crush Itachi whether he used Susano'o or not. Chou Shinra Tensei should break Susano'o and Itachi with pure force as it destroyed more than half of Konoha. Although Susano'o may protect against Pain's other jutsus, jutsus such as Chakra Missiles, Soul Removal, and Laser Explosion should definitely cause Itachi trouble should he not use Susano'o. Although Itachi may not have the edge here, his jutsus are nothing to be taken lightly in this fight. Susano'o is the main jutsu that Itachi will depend on in this fight. It will protect him from most of Pain's jutsu and also provide him with an excellent attack in the form of the sword of Totsuka. However, it is highly unlikely that Itachi could maintain this jutsu for long. The paths of pain will also know to avoid Itachi while using Susano'o which will greatly limit it's effectiveness. Tsukuyomi and other genjutsu may have no effect on Pain due to the fact that they are corpses and not under control by Nagato. However should they work, the paths of pain possess full knowledge on how to avoid getting caught in Itachi's genjutsu. Preta may also be able to get another path out of genjutsu via his ability to suck chakra. Amaterasu also has it's disadvantages in this fight. It can arguably be absorbed by Preta should it hit a path, and repelled by Shinra Tensei straight back at Itachi. Clone tricks worked on Human path in the manga due to plot induced stupidity. With full knowledge, Pain should easily be able to handle clones with anyone of a variety of jutsu or taijutsu. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-27-2010, 09:25 PM	#7
Kuromaki Sage of Starbucks Coffee Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: holla holla get $ Posts: 18,098 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki If sound based genjutsu worked, why not Itachi's genjutsu? Granted, the paths have info on that and they know Itachi is a genjutsu user so they can figure out ways to avoid getting caught, and like I said they have long range jutsu to counter this too. Susanoo durability with the Yata Mirror is not to be taken lightly, and it might be able to tank Chou Shinra Tensei, considering that its ribs alone took Kirin (and possibly even tanked it fully, depending on how you interpret what happened). Regardless, the paths know about Susanoo and I've listed ways to counter it. And Pain can always use Chibaku Tensei which screws Itachi over either way. There's not much to debate here since we agree on the winner.. __________________ My reaction to 599 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-28-2010, 07:52 PM	#9
Kuromaki Sage of Starbucks Coffee Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: holla holla get $ Posts: 18,098 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki This is the Yata Mirror we're talking about, although Deva could do something to Susanoo while it's still forming and there's no guarantee that the Yata Mirror will tank a village buster. I was just playing it safe. __________________ My reaction to 599 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-28-2010, 08:11 PM	#11
Kuromaki Sage of Starbucks Coffee Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: holla holla get $ Posts: 18,098 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Ok, since we agree, this can be judged now. Good luck. __________________ My reaction to 599 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-31-2010, 03:41 PM	#13
Blind Uchiha formerly Kuroi Kagai Lightning Amp Disciple Justice of the BG Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Virtual Reality Posts: 4,659 Rep Power: 14 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Awaiting judgment. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-06-2010, 08:49 PM	#14
Kuromaki Sage of Starbucks Coffee Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: holla holla get $ Posts: 18,098 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Still waiting. Is Shikamaru the only judge? __________________ My reaction to 599 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-06-2010, 08:53 PM	#16
Kuromaki Sage of Starbucks Coffee Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: holla holla get $ Posts: 18,098 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Oh. Gaiz, it's not a very long debate. __________________ My reaction to 599 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-07-2010, 10:22 AM	#17
Shikamaru Nara Super \| ɹoʇɐɹǝpoW Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 43,792 Rep Power: 42 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 Total Points: 4	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Been out for a while. I can't do it now, but I likely will soon. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-07-2010, 10:25 AM	#18
Wooster Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 36,978 Rep Power: 32	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Hate to interfere, but the list of contestants has been unstickied. Thus, I don't know who needs more than one round of rep besides Kuromaki and Blind. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

11-07-2010, 10:26 AM	#19
Shikamaru Nara Super \| ɹoʇɐɹǝpoW Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New York Posts: 43,792 Rep Power: 42 Awards Showcase Total Awards: 1 Total Points: 4	Re: Debate Contest- Final Round - Blind Uchiha Vs. Kuromaki Me, First, X I believe. I can't find it. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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