It's a perfect world we live in. Or maybe not.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

There is no such thing as imperfection. Don't believe me? Me neither. Then again, I don't believe there is such a thing as perfection, either. There's no such thing as anything other than simply being.

Who decides if an action is right or wrong? Perfect or imperfect? Nobody and everybody. There is not a single action you can take that is both just and unjust, right and wrong, perfect and imperfect, etc. That also means that ALL actions are just that.

In other words, what you deem to be imperfect may be, in fact, just the opposite. Who's to say? Your opinion doesn't matter to the Earth we all walk on, and the planet itself is greater than any single individual. But without the people that inhabit the planet, would there even BE an Earth?

The concept of perfection is, in a nutshell, a paradox of the most epic scale. Our predecessors, or Neanderthals, quite possibly were just as conscious as we are in regards to their surroundings and own existences. However, do you think they thought in terms of "this is right" or "this is wrong"? Doubtfully, and it's a fact that animals don't think that way either (as far as we know).

Humans are animals. Plain and simple. So what makes us different from every other creature on the planet? The fact that we think we're better than everything else. Because we believe we're closer to perfection than the koala bear is, but at the same time we know that we possess more imperfections than anything else in this world.

So why? Why continue living the way we do? Why continue living in terms of "right and wrong", "perfect and imperfect", "just and unjust", "moral and immoral"? Why not just "be"?

Discuss if you'd like, observe if necessary, simply think it over if it appeals to you, do whatever you want, because in the grand scheme of things, we're all only being us.

[akikofrown]

Look in the dictionary under perfect. You'll find me.

[naruto_jock]

To answer the "who deems something as right/perfect?" it's the people who become the majority in society. So if the majority of society was for dog fighting, then dog fighting would be considered alright.
To answer your last question, for some odd reason humans in general want to believe that there is a higher purpose for us than to just "exist". I guess people think that if we can't find a higher purpose, the question of "Are we really better than animals?" comes up. So in order for us to "live", we have to find something that makes us "better" where morals, ethics, and ideas comes from.

[Cyl]

Originally Posted by akikofrown

Look in the dictionary under perfect. You'll find me.

I have some feeling you didn't read the OP.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by naruto_jock

To answer the "who deems something as right/perfect?" it's the people who become the majority in society. So if the majority of society was for dog fighting, then dog fighting would be considered alright.
To answer your last question, for some odd reason humans in general want to believe that there is a higher purpose for us than to just "exist". I guess people think that if we can't find a higher purpose, the question of "Are we really better than animals?" comes up. So in order for us to "live", we have to find something that makes us "better" where morals, ethics, and ideas comes from.

But why do we need to be better than animals? They get along just fine.

[naruto_jock]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

But why do we need to be better than animals? They get along just fine.

I think it might be an ego thing right there....but there are some things that animals do that I would consider not "natural" either. For example, if a panda mother has twins, the mother will decide to keep one of them and abandon the other one to die. Do you think that's alright to do ifyou're mother/sister/gf/wife/or any other woman that you know did this if they had twins? I can understand how we want there to be a bigger purpose, because I can't imagine us doing something like that.

[Blind Uchiha]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

There is no such thing as imperfection. Don't believe me? Me neither. Then again, I don't believe there is such a thing as perfection, either. There's no such thing as anything other than simply being.

Who decides if an action is right or wrong? Perfect or imperfect? Nobody and everybody. There is not a single action you can take that is both just and unjust, right and wrong, perfect and imperfect, etc. That also means that ALL actions are just that.

In other words, what you deem to be imperfect may be, in fact, just the opposite. Who's to say? Your opinion doesn't matter to the Earth we all walk on, and the planet itself is greater than any single individual. But without the people that inhabit the planet, would there even BE an Earth?

The concept of perfection is, in a nutshell, a paradox of the most epic scale. Our predecessors, or Neanderthals, quite possibly were just as conscious as we are in regards to their surroundings and own existences. However, do you think they thought in terms of "this is right" or "this is wrong"? Doubtfully, and it's a fact that animals don't think that way either (as far as we know).

Humans are animals. Plain and simple. So what makes us different from every other creature on the planet? The fact that we think we're better than everything else. Because we believe we're closer to perfection than the koala bear is, but at the same time we know that we possess more imperfections than anything else in this world.

So why? Why continue living the way we do? Why continue living in terms of "right and wrong", "perfect and imperfect", "just and unjust", "moral and immoral"? Why not just "be"?

Discuss if you'd like, observe if necessary, simply think it over if it appeals to you, do whatever you want, because in the grand scheme of things, we're all only being us.

I agree with your line of thought, however it all boils down to how you believe the world came into being. Your mention of neanderthals implies an atheistic belief in evolution. If evolution is true, than you are right. If creationism is true, than you are horribly wrong.

[akikofrown]

Originally Posted by Kyousei

I have some feeling you didn't read the OP.

The first few lines.

[HeavenShocking LunarFang7]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

But why do we need to be better than animals? They get along just fine.

I don't believe that to be true. Animals, Carnivores and Omnivores, kill other animals to live. So, they don't necessarily get along well.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by Blind Uchiha

I agree with your line of thought, however it all boils down to how you believe the world came into being. Your mention of neanderthals implies an atheistic belief in evolution. If evolution is true, than you are right. If creationism is true, than you are horribly wrong.

If creationism is true, then everything I said in this thread is wrong. And right.

If G-d is perfect, and we are made in G-d's image, why are we not perfect? Who's to say that G-d never CREATED perfection and it was a purely mortal concept? If that's the case, then we've fooled ourselves into thinking we're better or worse than we really are, which is what this entire concept is about.

Originally Posted by HeavenShocking LunarFang7

I don't believe that to be true. Animals, Carnivores and Omnivores, kill other animals to live. So, they don't necessarily get along well.

What's wrong with killing other animals to live? No animal has gone extinct because of another species (except humans, of course). In the grand scheme of the circle of life, they're doing exactly what they were meant to do.

[HeavenShocking LunarFang7]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

What's wrong with killing other animals to live? No animal has gone extinct because of another species (except humans, of course). In the grand scheme of the circle of life, they're doing exactly what they were meant to do.

You could always be a flipping vegetarian.
You mean to tell me, that if your kid/wife/dad/brother/sister was killed by a bear, you wouldn't shot/kill a bear every time you saw one? Or at least try to find the bear that killed the person.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by HeavenShocking LunarFang7

You could always be a flipping vegetarian.
You mean to tell me, that if your kid/wife/dad/brother/sister was killed by a bear, you wouldn't shot/kill a bear every time you saw one? Or at least try to find the bear that killed the person.

If I was another bear, then no.

Animals don't exact revenge. Only humans. The closest thing in nature to a human being is, horrifyingly enough, a virus.

We go from place to place and take what we can from our environment and one another. Once we've sucked the place dry, we move on. No other creature on Earth does that.

[Blind Uchiha]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

If creationism is true, then everything I said in this thread is wrong. And right.

If G-d is perfect, and we are made in G-d's image, why are we not perfect? Who's to say that G-d never CREATED perfection and it was a purely mortal concept? If that's the case, then we've fooled ourselves into thinking we're better or worse than we really are, which is what this entire concept is about.

My point is the greatest being in existence would define perfection. Whether we are or not, doesn't change the fact that an all powerful creator can set up expectations. Your post said that no one's views on morality and such can be trusted to define perfection. An all powerful creator's view on perfection would naturally be right.

If perfection is a man made concept, you are correct. If it is the concept of an all powerful god, you are wrong.

[HeavenShocking LunarFang7]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

If I was another bear, then no.

Animals don't exact revenge. Only humans. The closest thing in nature to a human being is, horrifyingly enough, a virus.

We go from place to place and take what we can from our environment and one another. Once we've sucked the place dry, we move on. No other creature on Earth does that.

Fair enough.

That's not true. Most animals do take revenge on other animals. People just think that animals are stupid creatures that can't think, nor feel anything.

Bears do it. Once they've run out of food to eat, or other bears move near his territory, he either leaves, or in the case of another bear showing up, he would fight the other bear for the food. But once the place is dead of fish, or rabbits, whatever, it moves to a new place.

[akikofrown]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

If creationism is true, then everything I said in this thread is wrong. And right.

If G-d is perfect, and we are made in G-d's image, why are we not perfect? Who's to say that G-d never CREATED perfection and it was a purely mortal concept? If that's the case, then we've fooled ourselves into thinking we're better or worse than we really are, which is what this entire concept is about.

What's wrong with killing other animals to live? No animal has gone extinct because of another species (except humans, of course). In the grand scheme of the circle of life, they're doing exactly what they were meant to do.

God is perfect and the reason we are not is because we are all born sinners because adam and eve ate that fruit. Therefor, we are not perfect.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by Blind Uchiha

My point is the greatest being in existence would define perfection. Whether we are or not, doesn't change the fact that an all powerful creator can set up expectations. Your post said that no one's views on morality and such can be trusted to define perfection. An all powerful creator's view on perfection would naturally be right.

If perfection is a man made concept, you are correct. If it is the concept of an all powerful god, you are wrong.

Ah, but why would an all powerful creator NEED to set expectations for something based off of itself? That's like saying something is perfect, but a copy of that something is imperfect.

It's a right pretty little paradox is what it is, lad.

Originally Posted by HeavenShocking LunarFang7

Fair enough.

That's not true. Most animals do take revenge on other animals. People just think that animals are stupid creatures that can't think, nor feel anything.

Bears do it. Once they've run out of food to eat, or other bears move near his territory, he either leaves, or in the case of another bear showing up, he would fight the other bear for the food. But once the place is dead of fish, or rabbits, whatever, it moves to a new place.

No, they do not. Name one animal that exacts revenge solely for the sake of revenge.

Some animals might kill others for land, food, dominance, etc. But none kill one another simply for the sake of killing them, which is, in essence, what revenge IS.

Migration is not viral infestation. Bears never take more than they need, and they never take so much that the land never recovers for when they come back next season. They don't suck a place dry, they take what's needed and move on to the next step of life. Humans mass produce food, grow in population, produce more food, and the cycle continues until a location is so completely drained of resources we have no further use for it.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by akikofrown

God is perfect and the reason we are not is because we are all born sinners because adam and eve ate that fruit. Therefor, we are not perfect.

Why does eating the fruit make us sinners?

[Blind Uchiha]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

Ah, but why would an all powerful creator NEED to set expectations for something based off of itself? That's like saying something is perfect, but a copy of that something is imperfect.

It's a right pretty little paradox is what it is, lad.

You are assuming that humanity would be an exact copy of the Creator. If it isn't, then my statement still stands.

I agree that depending on it's origins, it is a fascinating paradox.

[HeavenShocking LunarFang7]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

Why does eating the fruit make us sinners?

Because the fruit was from the one tree God told them not to eat from. The Devil tricked Eve into tricking Adam into eating the fruit from the tree. Therefore, God sent them to Earth as their punishment. And being that they were the only people on Earth, they had about 500 kids, and so one, and so on. But the fact is, they both sinned, and they pretty much pasted their sins to their children, and their children to their children, etc.

[akikofrown]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

Why does eating the fruit make us sinners?

God told them not to eat off the forbidden tree.
Satan tempted them after God clearly said don't.