My take on the existance of God; God = Universe

[Rasengan-]

Originally Posted by Kakashi Hatake_Daphne Lu

religion and science are like opposite concepts.....but i do believe there is a god...there are different gods that different people believe....
but i kinda dont think that god created this universe, although there are some unnatural phenomena...like miracles and such....such a difficult subject

Luck is one aswell. What is really luck lol

[Err]

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

"Time itself is just a unit of measure, created by people. Time would not exist if we did not discover the need to measure factors of life itself.".

I don't have any other way of putting this, but you ARE saying that time itself was created by people and you therefore are implying that time is not part of the universe. Time would still exist even if humans never discovered it because it's part of the universe, just like gravity is.

[Rasengan-]

gravity appeared before are a natural factor. We were born into the world with gravity in place.

Time was created not natural like gravity. We don't need to discover gravity to know that I can't float around. We needed to discover time in order to measure the universe.

Time was then integrated to the universe which became part of the universe as a totality. Thus, stop telling me what i'm implying..I've told you many times this is what i mean. Still part of the universe.

Time will not exist if we never discovered it. The universe will continue "over time" not correlation with time that we have created.

[Bacon]

The sad thing is, time is just a concept created by people; just like god.

[Rasengan-]

Originally Posted by Bacon

The sad thing is, time is just a concept created by people; just like god.

agreed.

[ItachiAnbu]

Originally Posted by Err

I don't have any other way of putting this, but you ARE saying that time itself was created by people and you therefore are implying that time is not part of the universe. Time would still exist even if humans never discovered it because it's part of the universe, just like gravity is.

"Time is the measurement of motion." -Aristotle

We did not create time per-se, but we did create a way to measure time. Or, put differently, we created the UNITS of measurement.

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

gravity appeared before are a natural factor. We were born into the world with gravity in place.

Time was created not natural like gravity. We don't need to discover gravity to know that I can't float around. We needed to discover time in order to measure the universe.

Time was then integrated to the universe which became part of the universe as a totality. Thus, stop telling me what i'm implying..I've told you many times this is what i mean. Still part of the universe.

Time will not exist if we never discovered it. The universe will continue "over time" not correlation with time that we have created.

Time is a natural factor, just like gravity. Ask any scientist. You don't need to "discover" time to know that the sun rises and sets at about the same "time" (for lack of a better word) every day.

Time would still exist if we never "discovered" it. We just wouldn't measure it in hours, days, weeks, and so on, and so forth.

Originally Posted by Bacon

The sad thing is, time is just a concept created by people; just like god.

Like I said, we didn't create time, we just created the units of measurement for time.

[Err]

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

gravity appeared before are a natural factor. We were born into the world with gravity in place.

Time was created not natural like gravity. We don't need to discover gravity to know that I can't float around. We needed to discover time in order to measure the universe.

Time was then integrated to the universe which became part of the universe as a totality. Thus, stop telling me what i'm implying..I've told you many times this is what i mean. Still part of the universe.

Time will not exist if we never discovered it. The universe will continue "over time" not correlation with time that we have created.

I'm saying you're wrong and I offered a link to prove it. You can believe what you want to believe but you are still wrong.

Originally Posted by ItachiAnbu

"Time is the measurement of motion." -Aristotle

We did not create time per-se, but we did create a way to measure time. Or, put differently, we created the UNITS of measurement.

This, I agree with.

[Rasengan-]

Originally Posted by ItachiAnbu

"Time is the measurement of motion." -Aristotle

We did not create time per-se, but we did create a way to measure time. Or, put differently, we created the UNITS of measurement.



Time is a natural factor, just like gravity. Ask any scientist. You don't need to "discover" time to know that the sun rises and sets at about the same "time" (for lack of a better word) every day.

Time would still exist if we never "discovered" it. We just wouldn't measure it in hours, days, weeks, and so on, and so forth.

Like I said, we didn't create time, we just created the units of measurement for time.

I know we didn't create time, god...we will be gods if we created time.....
I said time itself as a measurement of factors of life. i repeated that many times or people just don't understand what i mean by "factors of life".

"Time would still exist if we never "discovered" it. We just wouldn't measure it in hours, days, weeks, and so on, and so forth."

(your quote) I meant that time as a measurement will not exist, you got this impression because you did not read my entire post from the begninng. Time as a continuum does not needed to be discovered...obviously. But I am essentially saying that time that measures the universe such as light years will not exist. Thus after the creation of time we are now able to intergrate it into the universe. And calculate time in the univserse. Hence, going back to where it all started, I commented that time cannot be "GOD". And therefore all these arguments are going no where.

Again, "time as a natural factor", you just didn't read all the comments just the last one. TIME per se is natural, time as a unit of measurement is not, thus time as a continuum existed. that is why i said "OVER TIME"... Differed from "time" as a measure of factor of life. I can't make it more clear. Therefore for here on out..anything of "OVER time" is irrelevant to me as I made it clear. Someone said Time is god, time is not god. I said two types of time.....Time as a measurement AND "over time". That is all im going to say there. Over time is therefore natural. There is a huge difference in the times i've talked about. But i differed both.

I said time is not natural like gravity because time as a measurment is not natural. I said this aswell re-read earlier post it is all there.

Originally Posted by Err

I'm saying you're wrong and I offered a link to prove it. You can believe what you want to believe but you are still wrong.

This, I agree with.

What in the world, I already said that time itself is a unit of measurement, I said the same thing. I said that we created time to measure life. Obviously we didn't create time. IF we created time then we are god, I thought you knew what I meant, when i said we created time...i mentioned time that measures factors of life many times already. To repeat I said We created time to measure AND for the record of my other quote I distisguted two types of time in my wording, time as a unit of measure and "over time", I referred "over time" as time as a continuum. concept. You agree with his and not mine...seriously it is just different wording.


Errr....Go read where someone said that time is god, then re-read my comment. I said "over time" is not god. AS in time as a continuum. If you think that I do not know time as a concept then your argument that time is part of the universe is irrelevant because everyone already knows that. You just did not read my comment carefully or didnt understand what i meant.

[Rasengan-]

"Time will not exist if we never discovered it. The universe will continue "over time" not correlation with time that we have created."

Look this is proof. I said it countless time. post number 43, on page 3. the last line.

[Err]

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

What in the world, I already said that time itself is a unit of measurement, I said the same thing. I said that we created time to measure life. Obviously we didn't create time. IF we created time then we are god, I thought you knew what I meant, when i said we created time...i mentioned time that measures factors of life many times already. To repeat I said We created time to measure AND for the record of my other quote I distisguted two types of time in my wording, time as a unit of measure and "over time", I referred "over time" as time as a continuum. concept. You agree with his and not mine...seriously it is just different wording.


Errr....Go read where someone said that time is god, then re-read my comment. I said "over time" is not god. AS in time as a continuum. If you think that I do not know time as a concept then your argument that time is part of the universe is irrelevant because everyone already knows that. You just did not read my comment carefully or didnt understand what i meant.

Then you need to reword your argument next time because I wasn't the only the who was mislead by your wording.

[Rasengan-]

I don't need to re-word, it is prefectly clear to me, i am sorry if you didn't understand it. It is different wording but the meaning remain the same.

But i barely blame the wording, it mainly the problem of understand time and universe.

No one will ever have the answer, but the argument I had was good to distinguish the concept of time. I can't make it easier.

The wording is fine. Other people probaly did not read all of my post from the beginning to completely grasp where I was coming from.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by The Demon Zabuza

What is your stand on the parallel universe theory?

Also, this is basically saying that science is right, you're just attributing the laws of the universe to divine creation rather than the big bang.

This is a fallacy. It's not God or science.

The Big Bang is still only a theory. It cannot be proven by empirical science. Hinting that the two are synonymous is simply wrong.

[Rasengan-]

^ they are getting closer though with the recent biggest scientific experiment in human history in geneva.

[The Demon Zabuza]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

This is a fallacy. It's not God or science.

The Big Bang is still only a theory. It cannot be proven by empirical science. Hinting that the two are synonymous is simply wrong.

Did I ever present them as anything other than theories? No. Did I say that either or both of them were true? No.

Did you assume I did? Yes.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by The Demon Zabuza

Did I ever present them as anything other than theories? No. Did I say that either or both of them were true? No.

Did you assume I did? Yes.

Actually I said you hinted at it. Open your eyes.

Stop arguing wording and semantics. It's clear what the intention of your post was. Creationism is a theory too and it is as valid as the Big Bang.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by ItachiAnbu

"Time is the measurement of motion." -Aristotle

We did not create time per-se, but we did create a way to measure time. Or, put differently, we created the UNITS of measurement.



Time is a natural factor, just like gravity. Ask any scientist. You don't need to "discover" time to know that the sun rises and sets at about the same "time" (for lack of a better word) every day.

Time would still exist if we never "discovered" it. We just wouldn't measure it in hours, days, weeks, and so on, and so forth.



Like I said, we didn't create time, we just created the units of measurement for time.

I forget that this is the debate forum, so I have to be specific. By the way, the only difference between what you said and what I said; is that I called time a concept instead of units of meaurement.

[Devroux]

False. I am god.

But really I believe that the universe could be god because the universe entitles more than just space. I believe it's everything that exists and can exist which in essence is god. The universe is connected to everything, living and inanimate. I also believe the universe trancends life and death which again is in essence god.
It only makes sense to me that the universe is god because it's the only thing that is always around and we can see it. Seeing god is one of the reason some people won't convert to Christianity. There is no physical proof that their god exists.

That's just my take in 2 paragraphs. I can talk for hours on the religion subject.

[ItachiAnbu]

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

I know we didn't create time, god...we will be gods if we created time.....
I said time itself as a measurement of factors of life. i repeated that many times or people just don't understand what i mean by "factors of life".

"Time would still exist if we never "discovered" it. We just wouldn't measure it in hours, days, weeks, and so on, and so forth."

(your quote) I meant that time as a measurement will not exist, you got this impression because you did not read my entire post from the begninng (WRONG. I read the whole thing five times over). Time as a continuum does not needed to be discovered...obviously. But I am essentially saying that time that measures the universe such as light years will not exist. Thus after the creation of time we are now able to intergrate it into the universe. And calculate time in the univserse. Hence, going back to where it all started, I commented that time cannot be "GOD". And therefore all these arguments are going no where.

I agree with that last sentence.

As for the rest of it; you aren't wrong, but you just caused a bit of miscommunication.

Again, "time as a natural factor", you just didn't read all the comments just the last one. TIME per se is natural, time as a unit of measurement is not, thus time as a continuum existed. that is why i said "OVER TIME"... Differed from "time" as a measure of factor of life. I can't make it more clear. Therefore for here on out..anything of "OVER time" is irrelevant to me as I made it clear. Someone said Time is god, time is not god. I said two types of time.....Time as a measurement AND "over time". That is all im going to say there. Over time is therefore natural. There is a huge difference in the times i've talked about. But i differed both.

"Over time" is bad wording, becasue it's vague, which is why I did not understand you.

There are not two types of time. There is time, and then there are units of time.

I said time is not natural like gravity because time as a measurment is not natural. I said this aswell re-read earlier post it is all there.

"Time as a measurement" is bad wording. Next time, try saying "Units of time" so that we don't continue to misunderstand you.

What in the world, I already said that time itself is a unit of measurement, I said the same thing. I said that we created time to measure life. Obviously we didn't create time. IF we created time then we are god, I thought you knew what I meant, when i said we created time...i mentioned time that measures factors of life many times already. To repeat I said We created time to measure AND for the record of my other quote I distisguted two types of time in my wording, time as a unit of measure and "over time", I referred "over time" as time as a continuum. concept. You agree with his and not mine...seriously it is just different wording.

We did not create time.

In the post I quoted, you did not say what I was saying, and therefore your statement did not have the same meaning.


Errr....Go read where someone said that time is god, then re-read my comment. I said "over time" is not god. AS in time as a continuum. If you think that I do not know time as a concept then your argument that time is part of the universe is irrelevant because everyone already knows that. You just did not read my comment carefully or didnt understand what i meant.

My various responses are in red. I get the feeling like we're making a very simple thing way too complicated.

Originally Posted by Rasengan-

I don't need to re-word, it is prefectly clear to me, i am sorry if you didn't understand it. It is different wording but the meaning remain the same.

But i barely blame the wording, it mainly the problem of understand time and universe.

No one will ever have the answer, but the argument I had was good to distinguish the concept of time. I can't make it easier.

The wording is fine. Other people probaly did not read all of my post from the beginning to completely grasp where I was coming from.

The wording, my friend, was atrocious in the post I quoted. I'll quote it again for you if you missed it. And by wording, I mostly mean your grammar, but I also mean your specific choice of words which you used to express your ideas.

Originally Posted by Bacon

I forget that this is the debate forum, so I have to be specific. By the way, the only difference between what you said and what I said; is that I called time a concept instead of units of meaurement.

True. You weren't specific, and therefore were not necessarily wrong.