new law in arizona

[itachiuchiha85]

ive been debating this in another site and one person has a pretty strong case "pro" this law, here is what he wrote:


"the constitution clearly states that the powers not given to the republic lie on the states, as such the law of the land, this is true. since immigration lands on the federal government's power, i agree this seems unlawful and unconstitutional, but since it doesnt aim to change any immigration laws but rather enforce them, this is not unconstitutional."




here is the bill http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/16/AzSB1070.pdf



(i am out, will be back tomorrow)

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

IOU, do you really thing that officers won't use racial profiling near the mexican border, especially considering racial profiling WORKS in many other aspects of law enforcement and they are encouraged to profile in other instances?

I agree the OP was dis-genuine with his summary but would argue it in the end amounts to the same thing.

oh there's no doubt they will! but that doesnt make it "illegal" in a sense.

[Kingsnoke]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

I stand by "Nothing says american democracy like "show me your papers."

Kingsnoke says that The History Teachers that say Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it have more evidence now.

[garra12345]

well i just hope it does not happen i don't like this law at all.

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

oh there's no doubt they will! but that doesnt make it "illegal" in a sense.

You may in fact be correct, legally. That's what civil disobedience (and hopefully jury nullification, though the ignorance of the masses don't inspire me) is for.

I promise I would go to jail over this, and try to get it rectified.

It's still Nazi-ism, and not cool in this country.

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by garra12345

well i just hope it does not happen i don't like this law at all.

It passed, it happened.

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by Kingsnoke

Kingsnoke says that The History Teachers that say Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it have more evidence now.

Nein!

[Toma RNK]

Originally Posted by SageoftheSixPaths

Nein!

Du sprechen Deutch?

[SageoftheSixPaths]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

Du sprechen Deutch?

Ein kleines bisschen.

[Sasori_X]

I understand showing a police officer my driver's licence when I'm driving because they have every right to ask for it. But I am against having police officers ask people (hispanic or not) if they're an illegal citizen or not. Do people really need to show a documentation if they're legal or not? Thats just stupid. If you really wanted to stop illegal immigration, you should have stopped it from the start. To late now.

[Azal]

Originally Posted by garra12345

okay so i live in arizona and there is this new law that says if you are mexican
then somebody can come up to you and ask you if you are legal here i mean i understand this but don't you think that is racist. debate

lmao is all i can say here

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Kingsnoke

Kingsnoke is reminded of Nazi Germany.

That's funny because this exact law is something in MODERN GERMANY. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking a citizen for papers. The issue is whether or not it is right to racially profile someone. Basically this law is making being in this country illegally a state crime in Arizona. Once again it is making being in this country illegally, illegal.

This wouldn't be an issue if the Federal gov't had done it's job and kept these people out like it was supposed to. It's easy to criticize being so far away, but honestly if it was in your back yard most of you would feel a great deal differently about this law.

[Wooster]

I hate when those Nazis make me show my "papers" for registration of ownership when they pull my car over. I must not live in a democracy.

The problem is the federal government has screwed up. Obama yes, but many presidents before. This likely not to be more than looking if criminals are citizens or not. Frankly police always have the right to approach any citizen and question them. It only racist if they target a race.

That does not mean that if the question more Hispanics it's racist as there are more Hispanics that are illegal immigrants. With all the crime and drug smuggling that's coming over the border this law is understandable.

The federal government should be stopping the flow of illegal migration. But it hasn't and is not likely to do so. This law is what's called a last resort.

[Kuroda Taishi]

I do not exactly agree with this law, however I do agree with the intent of this law.

[Toma RNK]

Id rather do it a more brutal way myself. Proof of citizenship required for all public services, bus, healthcare, police reports, perhaps an exception for firemen as I don't want the neighbors house burned down.

If you are here illegally and are mugged, tough, our cops won't help. Having complications giving birth, tough, or medical facilities are barred to you.

State issued ID would be sufficient.

Also tougher fines for hiring illegals. I mean seriously tough fines, enough to almost bankrupt a company.

Attack the housing owners and the employers, while denying public services like mail, healthcare, and police assistance.

Those I can live with because I am ok needing to show ID to receive a service subsidized or run by the government. I am not ok with requiring more than my state issued ID for walking around.

I know my views aren't popular, but there it is.

[Kuroda Taishi]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

Id rather do it a more brutal way myself. Proof of citizenship required for all public services, bus, healthcare, police reports, perhaps an exception for firemen as I don't want the neighbors house burned down.

If you are here illegally and are mugged, tough, our cops won't help. Having complications giving birth, tough, or medical facilities are barred to you.

State issued ID would be sufficient.

Also tougher fines for hiring illegals. I mean seriously tough fines, enough to almost bankrupt a company.

Attack the housing owners and the employers, while denying public services like mail, healthcare, and police assistance.

Those I can live with because I am ok needing to show ID to receive a service subsidized or run by the government. I am not ok with requiring more than my state issued ID for walking around.

I know my views aren't popular, but there it is.

Toma for President!!!!!!!!

[Vivi]

Originally Posted by garra12345

okay so i live in arizona and there is this new law that says if you are mexican
then somebody can come up to you and ask you if you are legal here i mean i understand this but don't you think that is racist. debate

Who made that law?John Arpaio?

All this does is make the prejudice about the US being Idiots towards Foreigners a reality.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Toma RNK

Id rather do it a more brutal way myself. Proof of citizenship required for all public services, bus, healthcare, police reports, perhaps an exception for firemen as I don't want the neighbors house burned down.

If you are here illegally and are mugged, tough, our cops won't help. Having complications giving birth, tough, or medical facilities are barred to you.

State issued ID would be sufficient.

Also tougher fines for hiring illegals. I mean seriously tough fines, enough to almost bankrupt a company.

Attack the housing owners and the employers, while denying public services like mail, healthcare, and police assistance.

Those I can live with because I am ok needing to show ID to receive a service subsidized or run by the government. I am not ok with requiring more than my state issued ID for walking around.

I know my views aren't popular, but there it is.

I support the first part: not providing service to illegal immigrants. I would support fining employers for hiring illegals IF the first part was carried out. Since that not the case, fining employers is bad idea. If illegals are here, it's better that they work than recieve welfare.

If we are going to do an ideal world. I would just make extremely hard to enter illegally whether it fences or severe punishment such as months of jail time if caught here illegally.

Conversely, I would make it much easier to come here legally. Essentially expand the number per year and make it much easier to renew visa and the such.

However, none of this will ever happen. The problem is that there are not just two sides, so that you can just do what ever the majority wants. Instead, there are about five sides. No matter what is proposed, you will annoy a majority. That's why we have the current situation on immigration even though it's about the worst possibility.

[MasterOfPain]

Most retarted law passed since you couldnt carry a donkey in a bathtub on your head.

[tanduhman]

its a genuis law... this is america. after 9/11 we are deffinetly supposed to keep track of who is coming, in and out of this country. plus for all of you who do not know the predictions of how many illegal immigrants there are in america, it is around 500,000!!! in that area anyways.

those are jobs being taken, that could go to the well deserving americans that actually have the decency to pay their taxes.