Heaven and hell

[tanduhman]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

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yes... i do assume that God exists..I understand that there isnt biological proof showing that he does, or anything like the matter. the point is that I believe in it.. I know that doesnt make it a reality. But its what I believe in. so dont go off saying oh its not real. everyone has a say in what they believe in.

Its not a dictator ship if he gives you a choice.. rlly? how hard is it to be a good person?? define a dictatorship before you go off rambling on what a dictatorship relates to.

[trackstar]

Originally Posted by tanduhman

yes... i do assume that God exists..I understand that there isnt biological proof showing that he does, or anything like the matter. the point is that I believe in it.. I know that doesnt make it a reality. But its what I believe in. so dont go off saying oh its not real. everyone has a say in what they believe in.

Its not a dictator ship if he gives you a choice.. rlly? how hard is it to be a good person?? define a dictatorship before you go off rambling on what a dictatorship relates to.

Yes exactly every one has a right to there own decision and beliefs. Also people shouldn't criticize them for it.

[animelover]

Heaven and Hell.

What I don't understand is that, either way we're supposed to have eternal life, even if we are sent to Hell aren't we? In Hell we suffer and to suffer in it's self means to still be able to feel pain and to do that you would have to live.

About being on "Satan's good side" because you've done his "work" and so you should be rewarded. Well, "Satan" in the Bible was an Arch-angel. An angel higher then the other angels and the most close to God himself, but was sent to Hell for trying to be better then God by trying to take over God's throne, and being Jealouse, when all of this was God's own test. So even before "Satan's" fall of Grace, there was still a Hell (I believe) and so Because "Satan" wanted to be better then God himself, doesn't it mean that he also would not want humans to do his "work" even in Hell?

Back to the question: Personally, I do believe in Heaven and Hell, however yes, I understand many of the confusion, for I, myself have many questions. However I do believe God is as pure as many believe him to be, because if there really is a God then he undoubtedly made "good" and "goodness" so why wouldn't he himself be the highest form of it? I believe that this is all a test to prove if we humans can even prove to be as good and do good i the world, because if we wanted to, then we can can't we?

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by animelover

Heaven and Hell.

What I don't understand is that, either way we're supposed to have eternal life, even if we are sent to Hell aren't we? In Hell we suffer and to suffer in it's self means to still be able to feel pain and to do that you would have to live.

About being on "Satan's good side" because you've done his "work" and so you should be rewarded. Well, "Satan" in the Bible was an Arch-angel. An angel higher then the other angels and the most close to God himself, but was sent to Hell for trying to be better then God by trying to take over God's throne, and being Jealouse, when all of this was God's own test. So even before "Satan's" fall of Grace, there was still a Hell (I believe) and so Because "Satan" wanted to be better then God himself, doesn't it mean that he also would not want humans to do his "work" even in Hell?

Back to the question: Personally, I do believe in Heaven and Hell, however yes, I understand many of the confusion, for I, myself have many questions. However I do believe God is as pure as many believe him to be, because if there really is a God then he undoubtedly made "good" and "goodness" so why wouldn't he himself be the highest form of it? I believe that this is all a test to prove if we humans can even prove to be as good and do good i the world, because if we wanted to, then we can can't we?

Heaven is supposed to be eternal life. Hell is eternal death, eternald damnation, and eternal suffering.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by gamabunta

i did read correctly. You were obviously trying to criticize me for that assumption, which you are now claiming as your own. I was simply pointing out that if you were assuming that god isn't, you are equally in the wrong. (i am an agnostic, please read the definition.)

god is a major part of the discussion of heaven and hell. And ironically you brought up god in your first post. Obviously you were recognizing it is an essential part of this discussion. Don't try changing the subject to fit your whims. (we are not discussing god. Heaven and hell please. God is a major part but that's besides the point. I am not changing anything.)

when did i say that? I said hell is complete seperation from god. I even told you that even on earth we are completely seperated from god. Either you have a serious comprehension problem or didn't bother reading my post.(i have a serious what? Did you just see what you posted? I quote "hell is a complete separation from god" then you said, i quote again "i even told you taht even on earth we are completely separated from god" so, like i stated earlier, with your logic, earth is hell.)

p.s don't respond in red. Type outside of the quote box.(again, if the admins do not make it a rule, i wont comply to it. )

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[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by tanduhman

yes... I do assume that god exists..i understand that there isnt biological proof showing that he does, or anything like the matter. The point is that i believe in it.. I know that doesnt make it a reality. But its what i believe in. So dont go off saying oh its not real. Everyone has a say in what they believe in. (what part of agnostic dont you get?)

its not a dictator ship if he gives you a choice.. Rlly? How hard is it to be a good person?? Define a dictatorship before you go off rambling on what a dictatorship relates to.(i would ask you to do the same, please. You obviously dont understand what a dictatorship is.)

redredred

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

Heaven is supposed to be eternal life. Hell is eternal death, eternald damnation, and eternal suffering.

not too long ago you posted this, on this thread and i quote:



"Hell is eternal seperation from God. Heaven is an eternity with him."

and now you say that?


you obviously dont understand yourself and your thinking and you expect me to take anything that you say about this matter seriously?


let me guess: eternal separation from god is eternal death damnation and suffering.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by animelover

Heaven and Hell.

What I don't understand is that, either way we're supposed to have eternal life, even if we are sent to Hell aren't we? In Hell we suffer and to suffer in it's self means to still be able to feel pain and to do that you would have to live. (indeed. tho some argue (without any evidence) that feelings go on living on our soul...)

About being on "Satan's good side" because you've done his "work" and so you should be rewarded. Well, "Satan" in the Bible was an Arch-angel. An angel higher then the other angels and the most close to God himself, but was sent to Hell for trying to be better then God by trying to take over God's throne, and being Jealouse, when all of this was God's own test. So even before "Satan's" fall of Grace, there was still a Hell (I believe) and so Because "Satan" wanted to be better then God himself, doesn't it mean that he also would not want humans to do his "work" even in Hell?(not in hell, but on earth. i ask you this: "if you do as your boss tells you, wouldnt you be "rewarded" with something? whether pay or a raise or days off.)

Back to the question: Personally, I do believe in Heaven and Hell, however yes, I understand many of the confusion, for I, myself have many questions. However I do believe God is as pure as many believe him to be, because if there really is a God then he undoubtedly made "good" and "goodness" so why wouldn't he himself be the highest form of it?(because, if he is the creator, he also created hell, which is a bad place, according to many) I believe that this is all a test to prove if we humans can even prove to be as good and do good i the world, because if we wanted to, then we can can't we?(true. we sure. i believe in altruism so yeah.)

red red.

[animelover]

"if you do as your boss tells you, wouldnt you be "rewarded" with something? whether pay or a raise or days off"

Yes you would be rewarded with something. If he was a boss who actually cared enough to give that to you.

(because, if he is the creator, he also created hell, which is a bad place, according to many)

I understand where your going with this. Well I would say that yes Hell is supposed to represent all evil. I'm kind of stumped on this one....

I'll say that, God knows all evil and all goodness. He might be the highest form of goodness, however he does know evil, but it doesn't mean that he is himself evil because if humans can commit sins and then stop and try to be pure again, then God can know evil and not be evil.

Maybe God created evil to let us choose (because we have free-will) a side in which we would stand on. Rather then only 1 path. Or he made Hell as a place to contain a evil he did not want to create but it was for the balance of things..... I'm getting confused myself now

Do you understand what I mean at least?

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

not too long ago you posted this, on this thread and i quote:



"Hell is eternal seperation from God. Heaven is an eternity with him."

and now you say that?


you obviously dont understand yourself and your thinking and you expect me to take anything that you say about this matter seriously?


let me guess: eternal separation from god is eternal death damnation and suffering.

Complete seperation from God is the equivilant of eternal suffering. They are synonymous. Surely you are not so simple minded that you think it can be described in only one way?

And I understand myself just find. What I don't understand is why you come here to debate, when you don't even know to punctuate.

[tanduhman]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

redredred

pretty sure I asked you first.. and due to your fail to awnswer you obviusly do not know what the definition is.. good job

[LBDZ5204]

Hell was created by God for Satan as well as his demons. Satan is not the ruler of Hell, he is a denizen.
It later became a place where people who have not found faith through Christ will be thrown.
Even the Prophets before Christ went to a temporary Hell, before Jesus went and took them to Heaven.
Heaven is the second perfect world created by God, the first being Eden, and the only way to ascend there is through faith in Christ.
We only get one life to do so.

[AkatsukiMember]

Originally Posted by tanduhman

I am a christian, but do know that I am no genuis at this thing.. im only giving my own opinion on the bible and etc. alot of people interpret the bible in many different ways, because well.. the bible doesnt always give a solid meaning. alot of it is confusing, and alot of people probably take it the wrong way by rearranging words and debating the opposite end of it.

That is a really good question although... the bible states the ten commandments more like a guide to your life.

it simply states not to commit adultery, to not murder, to not have other religions(although this one can be taken different ways), to not covet others of whatever they may have, to not curse god etc.

Of course some of these are more "BAD" than others, but i dont think that just because you did one means your going to hell. because in war, if you kill someone trying to kill you does that mean that you are going to hell? i wouldnt think so neways. yet if you killed someone out of anger or spite than that is a different story.. and adultery... that is just wrong..

Actually if you do one you will not go to hell, but God is merciful. He sent Jesus here to die for us, so that we may go to heaven after we have sinned. Because after Adam and Eve sinned, we were born into sin. Only believers will go to heaven. God has a set age where he thinks we can make the right decisions and that entails choosing Jesus as our pesonal Lord and Saviour at the appropiate age. Jesus also said in John 3:18-19, (18) "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he hath believeth not is condemned alrealdy, because he hath not believed in the name the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because thier deeds were evil"....

This scripture says basically that we must believe in God and The Son of God to get into heaven. Hell is a place of torment and suffering. Where it is extremely hot. Hotter than we can imagine. In the end Satan will be bound in hell and tormented.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by animelover

Yes you would be rewarded with something. If he was a boss who actually cared enough to give that to you.

I understand where your going with this. Well I would say that yes Hell is supposed to represent all evil. I'm kind of stumped on this one....

I'll say that, God knows all evil and all goodness. He might be the highest form of goodness, however he does know evil, but it doesn't mean that he is himself evil because if humans can commit sins and then stop and try to be pure again, then God can know evil and not be evil.

Maybe God created evil to let us choose (because we have free-will) a side in which we would stand on. Rather then only 1 path. Or he made Hell as a place to contain a evil he did not want to create but it was for the balance of things..... I'm getting confused myself now

Do you understand what I mean at least?

thats a lot of maybes. with an omnipotent being there cant be such things, imo.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by tanduhman

pretty sure I asked you first.. and due to your fail to awnswer you obviusly do not know what the definition is.. good job

here:

dictatorship:


a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

A dictatorship is defined as an autocratic form of government in which the government is ruled by an individual, the dictator, without hereditary ascension. It has three possible meanings: #A Roman dictator was a political office of the Roman Republic. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship

A type of government where absolute sovereignty is allotted to an individual or a small clique; A government which exercises autocratic rule
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dictatorship



tell me again, how is god not a dictator? 0.o

[Err]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

Heaven and hell

doesn't exist.

I can understand why people believe in it. But if you look at it rationally, it's just silly.

[Bacon]

I find "God" rather sadistic,but maybe that's because he is an enigma. I find that if he is Omnipotent and all knowing, he would anticipate who goes to heaven and hell with a 100 percent sucess rate. Therefore, why would he punish someone he already knew would go to hell? This would either suggest "god" is not all knowing, sadistic,or he has something entirely unfathomable at this point in time in store for each and every human being.

@ animelover: I see your ppoint about him casting what he did not want to create in hell to keep a balance,but that would mean he made a mistake. Which would suggest he is not omnipotent, and beggs the question why he created anything in the first place.

@Tan: Itachi's point about "god" using a dictatorship is becuase of his narrow standards. I would think that my mother who never committed a serious crime, or hamred anyone in such a hienous way. Yet I am sure she has commited adultery before, and so she is going to hell?
By God's very standards, she is a sinner and evil for breaking siad commandment. If there is no redemption, then "god" is a dictator.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Err

doesn't exist.

I can understand why people believe in it. But if you look at it rationally, it's just silly.

and that's the whole thing. it is irrational. and rather simplistic. more of a hope for more life to our finite life.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by bacon_army17

I find "God" rather sadistic,but maybe that's because he is an enigma. I find that if he is Omnipotent and all knowing, he would anticipate who goes to heaven and hell with a 100 percent sucess rate. Therefore, why would he punish someone he already knew would go to hell? This would either suggest "god" is not all knowing, sadistic,or he has something entirely unfathomable at this point in time in store for each and every human being.

@ animelover: I see your ppoint about him casting what he did not want to create in hell to keep a balance,but that would mean he made a mistake. Which would suggest he is not omnipotent, and beggs the question why he created anything in the first place.

@Tan: Itachi's point about "god" using a dictatorship is becuase of his narrow standards. I would think that my mother who never committed a serious crime, or hamred anyone in such a hienous way. Yet I am sure she has commited adultery before, and so she is going to hell?
By God's very standards, she is a sinner and evil for breaking siad commandment. If there is no redemption, then "god" is a dictator.

at your first statement, i ask myself that all the time.

to your last part, according to his laws, she is a sinner and should be considered evil. (btw i dont believe she is "evil")

also, since you pointed it out. i keep hearing that god will forgive our sins if we accept him.....well how about i accept him after i sinned for my entire life? would i be saved? if so, then he is an inept ruler, if not, then he is not merciful and is a dictator.

[Bacon]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

at your first statement, i ask myself that all the time.

to your last part, according to his laws, she is a sinner and should be considered evil. (btw i dont believe she is "evil")

also, since you pointed it out. i keep hearing that god will forgive our sins if we accept him.....well how about i accept him after i sinned for my entire life? would i be saved? if so, then he is an inept ruler, if not, then he is not merciful and is a dictator.

I am glad that I am not a alone in that aspect,but it plagues me becuase I want to believe in heaven. I want to beleive that my family will go there, and want to spend an eternity with all of them. However, there are too many unanswered questions beyond the very questions the religiously committed depend on. Why stop at the acceptance of god being the absolute creator?The flaws in his word tends to reflect not an omnipotent being,but rather it reflects men. Men who lived a harsh life 2000 years ago, and needed some assurance that life was still worth living. A society where you don't posses the time to contemplate what you are told, and where change does not occur often.

The part you said about accepting god; leaves room for you to live however you choose. You can be Hitler himself,but if you accept god before your dying breath; then you will be accepted into heaven. It doesn't make sense sometimes, and makes you wonder why didn't 'god" stop it all?