Devil's Advocate: Zetsu is Akatsuki Leader

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Defcon

Obito isn't tobi. Obito isn't evil.. if he were evil, he would never give his eye to Kakashi in the first place. He sacrificed himself to increase the survival chances of the team ..

Now if he were Tobi:
Imagine if he had the teleportation technique at that time, and he got himself teleported beneath the rocks.. He could've survived!

Tbh I am really sure Obito is not Tobi. I just hope Kishi thinks too ^^

Perhaps giving his eye to Kakashi is part of his brilliant master plan?

[Defcon]

I can't see how that would fit in his master plan? Since Kakashi is opposing him now. It only makes things more difficult since Kakashi (who has sharingan thanks to him + MS) helped Naruto defeating Akatsuki members.. or atleast tried :P

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Defcon

I can't see how that would fit in his master plan? Since Kakashi is opposing him now. It only makes things more difficult since Kakashi (who has sharingan thanks to him + MS) helped Naruto defeating Akatsuki members.. or atleast tried :P

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how it would work either...

That's the tough part about being Devil's Advocate.

But anywho...

Obito gave Kakashi his eye...because it was more challenging?

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

It's heavily implied that with Mei becoming the 5th Mizukage that
the reign of the Bloody Mist Village was over. It's unknown
when it began but it likely ended with the end of the 4th Mizukage's reign.
Either Tobi was Mizukage 1, 2 or 3 and passed the torch to Yagura.
Or Yagura was being controlled by Tobi and although Yagura was the
figure head. Tobi was pulling the strings.

It's likely Yagura was being controlled by Tobi. Why? Because Yagura WAS being controlled. People don't seem to know that Tobi was Mizukage and
we can similar situations occurring with Pain and The Rain Village and
we can see how Tobi has control over Sasuke.

In Volume 44, Kisame is surprised when Tobi takes off his mask and
reveals who he is. Kisame even says that he did not expect this person
to be Tobi. Kisame calls this person Madara and the former Mizukage.
So at the very least, Tobi was known as Madara by at least Kisame
in the Hidden Mist Village. Since Kisame did not know Tobi was Madara and the Mizukage then it can't be said that Kisame would be in on any deception involving Tobi being Obito.

If Tobi was Obito then Obito would had to been Mizukage at one point
and be able to trick people into thinking he was Madara somehow.

Or...

Madara was using Obito's body. However that's another argument.

So let's just go with Obito was calling himself Madara to gain power of Mizukage.

Didn't you say before that we don't know that Madara used 9 tails?
Anywho, the 4th says that the masked Akatsuki (Tobi) used 9 tails.
Since Kisame recognized Tobi as Madara upon removal of his mask
then the masked Akatsuki in the 4th's flashback and Tobi are
the same and therefore the person Kisame recognized as Mizukage
and as Madara fought the 4th Hokage.

So if Tobi=Obito then Obito fought the 4th Hokage.

True. Obito has no motive. Perhaps he's just evil?

Here's a good timeline. Blood Mist stopped when Zabuza was young, it was a consquence of his actions. Zabuza around Kakashi's age if not a bit older. Furthermore Yakura has to be Mizukage for a few years. Meaning that there's no way Obito could be controlling the village. He might not even had "died" yet. Therefore, either Obito is not Tobi or Mei became Mizukage only in the last few years. Yakura was before, and the Blood Mist time was still another Mizukage. If Obito is Tobi, this third Mizukage was not Tobi.

Oh, Oh you using my argument against me. I believe I am the only one that believes Madara didn't attack Konoha. It is commonly except that Minato said he did. But since we want the truth, not what's commonly accepted, we must let the objection stand. We don't know.

All that is important is that Minato knew Tobi was around. And thanks to both our arguments, I can show Obito is not Tobi using proof by contradiction.

Obito is Tobi:
The Nine Tails attack 12 years before the start of Naruto. Kakashi is ~26, thus he is 14 at the time of the Nine Tails attack. Obito is about the same age as Kakashi. Tobi, if he is to be Obito, would only be 14. Minato would definitely notice this masked man as only a boy. Not to mention likely his student, who died only two years before. So therefore this Tobi could not be Obito.

Maybe Obito became Tobi later. Nope, we already disproved that. Tobi has always been the same person. We know this do to Kisame.

Therefore, Obito is not Tobi.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Here's a good timeline. Blood Mist stopped when Zabuza was young, it was a consquence of his actions. Zabuza around Kakashi's age if not a bit older. Furthermore Yakura has to be Mizukage for a few years. Meaning that there's no way Obito could be controlling the village. He might not even had "died" yet. Therefore, either Obito is not Tobi or Mei became Mizukage only in the last few years. Yakura was before, and the Blood Mist time was still another Mizukage. If Obito is Tobi, this third Mizukage was not Tobi.

Oh, Oh you using my argument against me. I believe I am the only one that believes Madara didn't attack Konoha. It is commonly except that Minato said he did. But since we want the truth, not what's commonly accepted, we must let the objection stand. We don't know.

All that is important is that Minato knew Tobi was around. And thanks to both our arguments, I can show Obito is not Tobi using proof by contradiction.

Obito is Tobi:
The Nine Tails attack 12 years before the start of Naruto. Kakashi is ~26, thus he is 14 at the time of the Nine Tails attack. Obito is about the same age as Kakashi. Tobi, if he is to be Obito, would only be 14. Minato would definitely notice this masked man as only a boy. Not to mention likely his student, who died only two years before. So therefore this Tobi could not be Obito.

Maybe Obito became Tobi later. Nope, we already disproved that. Tobi has always been the same person. We know this do to Kisame.

Therefore, Obito is not Tobi.

I'm working on a time line.
Zabuza murdered his classmates a year after nine tails attacked.
A year after that Hidden Mist changed their policy.

Zabuza is actually a couple years younger than Kakashi.

Zabuza would of been 26 now and 22 when he fought Kakashi

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

I'm working on a time line.
Zabuza murdered his classmates a year after nine tails attacked.
A year after that Hidden Mist changed their policy.

Zabuza is actually a couple years younger than Kakashi.

Zabuza would of been 26 now and 22 when he fought Kakashi

Well that doesn't change the conclusion of my argument with Minato that one's solid. So Obito is not Tobi still stands. This makes sense though. Zabuza wasn't in the class, and he looked less than 10 years old.

But if Mei took over around then, Obito was much too young to have been involved to be controlling Yakura from the beginning.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Well that doesn't change the conclusion of my argument with Minato that one's solid. So Obito is not Tobi still stands. This makes sense though. Zabuza wasn't in the class, and he looked less than 10 years old.

But if Mei took over around then, Obito was much too young to have been involved to be controlling Yakura from the beginning.

Ok, I'm just saying that Zabuza is younger. It wasn't really an argument.
Also you keep writing Yakura. But the name is Yagura...unless perhaps
you have a different translation?

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Ok, I'm just saying that Zabuza is younger. It wasn't really an argument.
Also you keep writing Yakura. But the name is Yagura...unless perhaps
you have a different translation?

No just a different translator in my brain today.
But my point was do you concede this debate?

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

No just a different translator in my brain today.
But my point was do you concede this debate?

Am I allowed to use hysterical and annoying oversized font with bad grammar and spelling as a counter argument?

like so

TOBI IS TEH OBITO! the NamES @re dah same. DUH! XD

Or should I call it quits?

[Wooster]

We could repeat the argument over and over again as well.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

We could repeat the argument over and over again as well.

Hmm I think we need a new topic.


Zetsu is the true mastermind behind Akatsuki

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Hmm I think we need a new topic.


Zetsu is the true mastermind behind Akatsuki

Well we came to the obvious conclusion with the last debate, but I learned a crap-load about the Mist village. Who knows what that debate could reveal.
But I think someone else can do it this time. I've laid a perfect example of how to do it anyway.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Well we came to the obvious conclusion with the last debate, but I learned a crap-load about the Mist village. Who knows what that debate could reveal.
But I think someone else can do it this time. I've laid a perfect example of how to do it anyway.

Yeah.

Well in the meanwhile, if you're curious about when anything in Naruto happened post the event in the timeline thread I made.
I'm making a timeline so I can logically figure out when things happened.

[Phoenix Wright]

Guys just want to pop in and tell you something.

If you actually believed in the theory you want others to try and disprove, it'd be harder to make you give up. That's why Devil's Advocates always fail IMO. On the other hand the person ends up believing it if they're stubborn enough.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Trueborn_Uchiha

Guys just want to pop in and tell you something.

If you actually believed in the theory you want others to try and disprove, it'd be harder to make you give up. That's why Devil's Advocates always fail IMO. On the other hand the person ends up believing it if they're stubborn enough.

Actually, not true UNLESS you're remaining belief doesn't follow logic.

The classic: "It's just what I think" garbage.

"If the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"

[original uchiha]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Ah...true.

However Obito was lying. Calling himself Madara gives more credit.

how would obito find out about madara but since he was basiclly clan leader not to long ago i believe its about 30/100% possible

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by original uchiha

how would obito find out about madara but since he was basiclly clan leader not to long ago i believe its about 30/100% possible

We kinda of past this point now. But Madara might be talked about in a rebellious clan like the Uchiha. So he could have picked it up along the way.

But we found out that the possibility of Obito being Tobi 0%. The only possible way is for Kishimoto to drive a semi through the plot.

[zerosameri]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Am I allowed to use hysterical and annoying oversized font with bad grammar and spelling as a counter argument?

like so

TOBI IS TEH OBITO! the NamES @re dah same. DUH! XD

Or should I call it quits?

Liek OMG ur soooo rite thair. Tobi iz teh Obito.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Trueborn_Uchiha

Guys just want to pop in and tell you something.

If you actually believed in the theory you want others to try and disprove, it'd be harder to make you give up. That's why Devil's Advocates always fail IMO. On the other hand the person ends up believing it if they're stubborn enough.

I gave up because I couldn't counter Wooster's argument. I lost.

Originally Posted by original uchiha

how would obito find out about madara but since he was basiclly clan leader not to long ago i believe its about 30/100% possible

It wouldn't be surprising if Obito knew who Madara was.
It would be surprising if Obito MET Madara or WAS Madara.

Originally Posted by Wooster

We kinda of past this point now. But Madara might be talked about in a rebellious clan like the Uchiha. So he could have picked it up along the way.

But we found out that the possibility of Obito being Tobi 0%. The only possible way is for Kishimoto to drive a semi through the plot.

Kishimoto: Floor it.!

Vrooom!!!

Originally Posted by zerosameri

Liek OMG ur soooo rite thair. Tobi iz teh Obito.

Hey! I think you're emoticon is teh Obito! Laugh out loudz!

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Hey! I think you're emoticon is teh Obito! Laugh out loudz!

Everyone hear that? is now the Obito=Tobi emoticon.

So let it be written.

So let it be done.

Obito is Tobi I know it.