The Case For Not Hating Sakura After Chapter 484

[VampireCat]

Like I said before; she's not crazy. She tries to save the man she loves. :]
But, yes, I think she thinks that her team can't kill Sasuke. But I think she doesn't think that they are weak. Look at Naruto, can he kill Sasuke? He can't, because Sasuke is/was his best friend. ^^

[Err]

Originally Posted by VampireCat

Like I said before; she's not crazy. She tries to save the man she loves. :]
But, yes, I think she thinks that her team can't kill Sasuke. But I think she doesn't think that they are weak. Look at Naruto, can he kill Sasuke? He can't, because Sasuke is/was his best friend. ^^

Exactly, she's crazy because she's in love with a evil guy.

[VampireCat]

Seriously, what would you do? O.o
Anyway, this is your opinion. :]

[Err]

I don't know what I would do. I wouldn't be foolish enough to fall in love, that's for certain.

[VampireCat]

Do you really think that you can take control of it? (I'm talking about falling in love)
Trying to control it would be a waste of time, in my opinion. :]

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by Err

Did read the entire thing. I still think she's crazy. If she really wanted to kill Sasuke, she should of done it with her team. It's just your assumption that her team can't.

She knew that she couldn't get Naruto to join her, and that Kakashi might die if he fought Sasuke. She did it to protect them.

[VampireCat]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

She knew that she couldn't get Naruto to join her, and that Kakashi might die if he fought Sasuke. She did it to protect them.

I agree. ^^

[Sakura+Sasuke=Awesomness]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

***SPOILERS***

READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THING BEFORE YOU REPLY. SERIOUSLY, SO MANY TIMES, I'LL MAKE A LONG CASE IN MY OP, AND PEOPLE WON'T BOTHER TO READ IT ALL. THEN, THEY MAKE COUNTERARGUMENTS CONTAINING THINGS I 100% PERCENT DISPROVED IN MY OP. IT'S REALLY ANNOYING.


All right, Chapter 484 seems to have unleashed new waves of hatred for Sakura's character. In it, she has the chance to stab Sasuke in the back, and finally end the Sasuke storyline, which stopped being interesting (with few exceptions) about 25 chapters ago. However, she is racked with indecision, and stops less than inch from his back. This has caused about 60% of all Chapter 484-related posts to be whining about Sakura not killing him.

They all seem to revolve around the theme: "Grrr... Sakura's such a crybaby! She's whining about everything! Seriously, MAKE YOUR MIND UP ABOUT SASUKE, YOU LOSER! She needs to die, and soon..."

I think this is where they're being completely blind to vast majorities of the recent story, and only noticing the parts that support thier whining. Maybe, if they were actually paying attention, they'd notice how much has changed in the last 35 chapters.

For about 175 chapters, from after the Sasori fight to when she decided to kill Sasuke herself, she bacame a pathetic, weak character. When Part 2 started she and Naruto were on the same level. She actually had a fair chance at beating him, if it weren't for Shadow Clone Spamming. Then, after the Sasori fight, she fell out the spotlight completely. She appeared in arcs, for sure, but she stopped doing anything that mattered. Without the constant stream of powerups that the rest of the characters were getting, she quickly fell behind and became a weakling. Then, about 15 chapters ago, she made the decision to kill Sasuke herself, and all of a sudden became a valid character again. However, most people clung to the image they had had of her for the past 3 years, and failed to notice how increasingly great her character was becoming.


Here's my case for why her hesitating to kill Sasuke doesn't make her hateable:

Everything from Page 16 of Chapter 456 onwards takes place on the same day. That's right. The current day in Naruto started back in July 2009. Seven months ago. Now, I could spend a very long time explaining why it's impossible for a day to have passed. However, I'm already spending quite a bit of my time making the "Pro-Sakura" case. Inevitably, someone will say, "Prove it," and when they do, I'll go and make the very long case, but for now I'm just finishing this up.

Anyway, that means that on the morning of this "day", Sakura was in Tsunade's tent with Shizune, until around the time the meeting started. She was still totally convinced (like much of the fandom), that Sasuke could be saved. Then, Sai and Shikamaru came in and explained that Sasuke was going to be killed by the Konaha 11. All her closest friends are telling her (with very persuasive arguments) why it's the best decision to kill Sasuke. The realization that they might be right causes her to break down crying. Even though she has a very good reason to be upset and crying, the fandom instantly decides that this makes her "a crybaby".

She decides to go and talk to Naruto herself, and explain to him that killing Sasuke is a viable option. However, when she sees him, she decides that she has always relied on him him too much, and that it's time to finally do something for him.

Becuase of this, she goes up to him and gives a fake speech in order to help him get over her. She knows that once she kills Sasuke, he'll hate her for doing so. And so she tells him that she no longer wants him to keep the promise he made to her 3 years ago (to bring Sasuke back). She explains that she no longer loves Sasuke, and loves him instead. She does all this becuase she knows it'll make Naruto angry with her, so he'll feel less betrayed when he finds out she killed Sasuke. However, Naruto can tell that she's lying and still loves Sasuke. She fake-storms off, and thinks to herself, "Naruto! I'm sorry!" Then she asks Kiba to find Sasuke for her.

As soon as she finds out from Kiba where Sasuke is, she tries to put the rest of her team to sleep. She knows that even with all 4 of them they're still no match for Sasuke. Her only chance is to join his team, and then wait for the right moment to catch him off-guard and kill him. However, if her 3 teammates are with her, then she'll have to kill them before Sasuke will let her join him (if he doesn't kill them himself). So she puts them to sleep for thier own safety.

When she reaches Sasuke, her plan seems to be working, until he says she can only join if she kills Karin. She can't get herself to do it, thinking, "She... has nothing to do with this..." She contemplates for a moment trying to kill Sasuke now, so she won't have to kill Karin, but Sasuke can tell, and tries to kill her. (Kakashi manages to show up at exactly the last moment to stop him.)

She follows Kakashi's orders to heal Karin, but once that's done, and she's been told by Karin that he's evil ("He's... not the Sasuke you knew anymore."), she realizes she has to help. Despite Kakashi's (and all the fan's) conviction that she's much too weak to do anything against Sasuke, she manages to sneak up on him and has the chance to kill him. But she falters. She stops just short of his back and breaks down sobbing. This gives Sasuke the chance to turn around and almost kill her.

Everyone hates Sakura for not killing Sasuke, but let's remember this: For the past 3 years, her entire life has been devoted to saving Sasuke. Then, in an emotionally traumatic 4 or 5 hours, she has to abandon her life goal and try to kill Sasuke instead. Can you really blame her for having a moment of pained doubt before she makes a decision that will affect the rest of her life?


Anyway, I just spent about 2 hours looking up my references and typing this all out, so if you think I did a good job on this, could you give me a Rep Up? It really makes me feel like it was worth it. *gets down repped by 4 people for "asking for rep"* What?! NOOOOOOOO...........

I agree your totally right

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

(HOW is she a crybaby? She's had a pretty emotionally wrecking day. I say she deserves to cry, after what she's been through.)

Didn't I explain my reasons for calling her a cry-baby in the rest of my argument?

(Back when Naruto was weak, he did exactly what you're saying is wrong. But I bet you're not judging him. It's just becuase you don't like Sakura as a character that you're viewing her actions in a negative light.)

Actually, you're assuming I never judged Naruto for it but you're wrong. For your information I didn't really like Naruto until after the fight with Pain, and the reason was mostly that, that he let his emotions control him all the time and even if he was "trying" to be useful he just caused more trouble for everyone (well at least most of the time).
And you're also assuming I don't like Sakura as a character and that I'm just looking for whatever excuse to criticize her but that's not true. I think I have very valid points for disliking her right now and calling her a "cry-baby" and "useless" Kunoichi...

Hmm... Maybe she decided sooner than seeing him to give the fake speech. Good point.

Glad we at least agree on that....

She knew that she wouldn't be able to get Naruto to change his mind. That's why she decided on the best way to kill Sasuke without Naruto: infiltrating his team. After all, even with the Konoha 10 combined, they still wouldn't stand a chance against Sasuke.

That I can understand...Naruto's bond with Sasuke is separate from his promise to Sakura...he's after Sasuke for his own reasons. Yet I don't see your point with what you're saying? I didn't say anything about her strategy to kill Sasuke (but if you ask me it was stupid of her...Sasuke's a complete psycho but he's not an idiot.)

She thought she was ready. It was only at the last moment that she had a meltdown.

Yeah and that only gives her an excuse until Kakashi saved her. How do you make the same mistake twice in less than 15 min? You're basically agreeing with me on this..if she just had a meltdown and ended up being saved then why did she go back and try to kill him again when she already "knew" for sure she couldn't do it. I mean honestly if she wasn't able to do it 10 min ago it's obvious she wasn't going to be able to do it that second time...that's where most of my critique comes from.

Why does everyone keep on saying that she's useless and too weak fight Sasuke? Back in the beginning of the series, Kakashi said that, as a ninja, it's important not to do head-to-head fighting, but be able to sneak up on the enemy and kill them. Even though Sakura was too weak to beat him in a head-to-head fight, she could use her skills as a ninja to sneak up on him and kill him. She knew she would be able to do that, and she did. The only problem was her hesitation. So stop saying she's useless in a fight against Sasuke. This chapter has clearly proved otherwise.

Again...what are you quoting and replying to? If I ever said she wasn't strong enough to fight Sasuke or kill him I didn't write it in your thread...I just told you that I got mad at her because I admired her decision to kill him and then she ended up not doing anything except get Kakashi and Naruto in harm's way.

She's obviously talented...I'm not saying she's not, if she wasn't Tsunade wouldn't have made her her apprentice. But she's an emotional wreck when it comes to Sasuke and whatever she might do right she ends up doing it wrong and messing things up. If she knows that (or at least realizes that in a fight) then the mature way to handle things would be to leave the job to others (like Kakashi saving her and giving her an opportunity to get away from the fight).

Also, pretty much anyone at that point could have sneaked up on Sasuke...the guy was just too shocked to see he's almost completely blind by now. And yes her hesitation was her only problem and that's exactly why she was useless!! believe me she didn't need any more "problems" at the time...just hesitating caused enough trouble.

Really, it was more of Plot no Jutsu that caused her to abandon 30 chapters of character development, and falter at the worst possible moment. After all, if she had killed him, then Naruto wouldn't have been able to fight him. And god forbid someone other than Naruto might be the one to kill Sasuke.

Geez I know it's obviously for the plot that Sasuke's still alive...believe me I know that's also the reason why two of my favorite characters are gone (Itachi and Jiraya). Still actually hurting him would have sufficed for me, it would have proven her determination and her growth as a character IMO.

Sorry. I'd noticed a lot of people were drastically misinterperting some things that had happened (Like Sakura's "confession" to Sasuke. Most of the Sakura-haters thought she was just being a jerk to Naruto, and didn't notice the explanation of it in Chapter 474.), so I thought I'd take the chance to explain what's really been going on all day to them.
Oh ok...
Why do I always end up debating you, 3littlepigs?

lol I have no idea...maybe because somehow you always end up sticking up for any character that's being criticized and somehow I always have a perfectly fine reason for the critique?

[Ur Mom]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

***SPOILERS***

READ THROUGH THE WHOLE THING BEFORE YOU REPLY. SERIOUSLY, SO MANY TIMES, I'LL MAKE A LONG CASE IN MY OP, AND PEOPLE WON'T BOTHER TO READ IT ALL. THEN, THEY MAKE COUNTERARGUMENTS CONTAINING THINGS I 100% PERCENT DISPROVED IN MY OP. IT'S REALLY ANNOYING.


All right, Chapter 484 seems to have unleashed new waves of hatred for Sakura's character. In it, she has the chance to stab Sasuke in the back, and finally end the Sasuke storyline, which stopped being interesting (with few exceptions) about 25 chapters ago. However, she is racked with indecision, and stops less than inch from his back. This has caused about 60% of all Chapter 484-related posts to be whining about Sakura not killing him.

They all seem to revolve around the theme: "Grrr... Sakura's such a crybaby! She's whining about everything! Seriously, MAKE YOUR MIND UP ABOUT SASUKE, YOU LOSER! She needs to die, and soon..."

I think this is where they're being completely blind to vast majorities of the recent story, and only noticing the parts that support thier whining. Maybe, if they were actually paying attention, they'd notice how much has changed in the last 35 chapters.

For about 175 chapters, from after the Sasori fight to when she decided to kill Sasuke herself, she bacame a pathetic, weak character. When Part 2 started she and Naruto were on the same level. She actually had a fair chance at beating him, if it weren't for Shadow Clone Spamming. Then, after the Sasori fight, she fell out the spotlight completely. She appeared in arcs, for sure, but she stopped doing anything that mattered. Without the constant stream of powerups that the rest of the characters were getting, she quickly fell behind and became a weakling. Then, about 15 chapters ago, she made the decision to kill Sasuke herself, and all of a sudden became a valid character again. However, most people clung to the image they had had of her for the past 3 years, and failed to notice how increasingly great her character was becoming.


Here's my case for why her hesitating to kill Sasuke doesn't make her hateable:

Everything from Page 16 of Chapter 456 onwards takes place on the same day. That's right. The current day in Naruto started back in July 2009. Seven months ago. Now, I could spend a very long time explaining why it's impossible for a day to have passed. However, I'm already spending quite a bit of my time making the "Pro-Sakura" case. Inevitably, someone will say, "Prove it," and when they do, I'll go and make the very long case, but for now I'm just finishing this up.

Anyway, that means that on the morning of this "day", Sakura was in Tsunade's tent with Shizune, until around the time the meeting started. She was still totally convinced (like much of the fandom), that Sasuke could be saved. Then, Sai and Shikamaru came in and explained that Sasuke was going to be killed by the Konaha 11. All her closest friends are telling her (with very persuasive arguments) why it's the best decision to kill Sasuke. The realization that they might be right causes her to break down crying. Even though she has a very good reason to be upset and crying, the fandom instantly decides that this makes her "a crybaby".

She decides to go and talk to Naruto herself, and explain to him that killing Sasuke is a viable option. However, when she sees him, she decides that she has always relied on him him too much, and that it's time to finally do something for him.

Becuase of this, she goes up to him and gives a fake speech in order to help him get over her. She knows that once she kills Sasuke, he'll hate her for doing so. And so she tells him that she no longer wants him to keep the promise he made to her 3 years ago (to bring Sasuke back). She explains that she no longer loves Sasuke, and loves him instead. She does all this becuase she knows it'll make Naruto angry with her, so he'll feel less betrayed when he finds out she killed Sasuke. However, Naruto can tell that she's lying and still loves Sasuke. She fake-storms off, and thinks to herself, "Naruto! I'm sorry!" Then she asks Kiba to find Sasuke for her.

As soon as she finds out from Kiba where Sasuke is, she tries to put the rest of her team to sleep. She knows that even with all 4 of them they're still no match for Sasuke. Her only chance is to join his team, and then wait for the right moment to catch him off-guard and kill him. However, if her 3 teammates are with her, then she'll have to kill them before Sasuke will let her join him (if he doesn't kill them himself). So she puts them to sleep for thier own safety.

When she reaches Sasuke, her plan seems to be working, until he says she can only join if she kills Karin. She can't get herself to do it, thinking, "She... has nothing to do with this..." She contemplates for a moment trying to kill Sasuke now, so she won't have to kill Karin, but Sasuke can tell, and tries to kill her. (Kakashi manages to show up at exactly the last moment to stop him.)

She follows Kakashi's orders to heal Karin, but once that's done, and she's been told by Karin that he's evil ("He's... not the Sasuke you knew anymore."), she realizes she has to help. Despite Kakashi's (and all the fan's) conviction that she's much too weak to do anything against Sasuke, she manages to sneak up on him and has the chance to kill him. But she falters. She stops just short of his back and breaks down sobbing. This gives Sasuke the chance to turn around and almost kill her.

Everyone hates Sakura for not killing Sasuke, but let's remember this: For the past 3 years, her entire life has been devoted to saving Sasuke. Then, in an emotionally traumatic 4 or 5 hours, she has to abandon her life goal and try to kill Sasuke instead. Can you really blame her for having a moment of pained doubt before she makes a decision that will affect the rest of her life?


Anyway, I just spent about 2 hours looking up my references and typing this all out, so if you think I did a good job on this, could you give me a Rep Up? It really makes me feel like it was worth it. *gets down repped by 4 people for "asking for rep"* What?! NOOOOOOOO...........

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

Ok First I did read all of that (just in case you're wondering). Second here we go again.... ( and I honestly don't think it's been just 4 or 5 hours that's pretty much impossible but I do agree with you it hasn't been that long for Sakura since she realized Naruto's feelings for her etc...)

I will say I did notice how she changed from Part I to Part II and then again after she found out about Sasuke being a wanted criminal and Sai telling her about Naruto's feelings. Still, I'm one of those calling her a cry-baby and a pretty much useless Kunoichi at the moment (I'm not talking about her as a medical ninja since she's extremely talented at it). The truth is if she can't help then she should get out of the way and let others handle Sasuke. That would be the mature way of handling things and of proving she's changing as a person.

You're saying she initially went to see Naruto with the intent of telling him that it's ok to kill Sasuke? honestly if she only intended to tell him the truth if he agreed to not try and save Sasuke anymore and she knew beforehand how he would react to her feeding him a bunch of lies about loving him and what not, then that means she never intended to tell him the truth from the moment she left the village. Even Yamato himself said that...

Can we also remember that she's not the only who was trying to "save" Sasuke? Naruto was too and yet you don't see him causing trouble for anybody or almost getting others killed because of that. Also nobody told her she had to kill Sasuke...Sai merely told her she relied to much on Naruto and how Naruto felt for her. In other words he told her how selfish she's been with Naruto and that all of them should do something about Sasuke not just Naruto. However if you look at Ino for example (who was also crying like a maniac for "poor Sasuke!" ) she didn't go or even try to go (or more like nobody would have sent her anyway) because emotionally she couldn't do anything...now I really disliked Ino for that but if Sakura wasn't emotionally prepared to change her idea of Sasuke and then do what she set out to do then she shouldn't have acted like she was.

Look at Naruto, everyone's been pressing him like crazy about Sasuke...everyone with their own opinions or suggestions but there's a reason why he hasn't come to a decision regarding Sasuke yet. Because he's not mentally and emotionally ready to come to a decision and he recognizes that.

I guess the main reason why I was so pissed off at Sakura this last two chapters is because when she said she was going to change and when she decided to kill Sasuke herself I actually admired her for it. And then what? her indecision almost got Kakashi killed! Not only that but if she already realized that she can't assimilate the "new" Sasuke why did she have to go back and put herself in danger? I mean how is she not useless? Kakashi just saved her and asked her to please get out of the way because she was obviously not capable of doing anything emotionally and mentally and yet she went right back in the fight and put herself in danger. Honestly if it weren't for her shock when Sasuke grabbed her by the throat I would have assumed she was suicidal...all of a sudden she wants to stop relying too much on Naruto and do things herself but instead she ended up getting saved twice in less than 20 min and in both situations she could have gotten Kakashi and Naruto killed because "she hesitated"...

Now watch she'll interrupt Naruto and get herself in a dangerous position again and you'll still say she's not "useless" or a "cry-baby". (Also most of your argument wasn't really an argument...it was just a big summary of I don't know how many chapters...it didn't really prove anything as to why she's not useless, etc...)

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

lol I have no idea...maybe because somehow you always end up sticking up for any character that's being criticized and somehow I always have a perfectly fine reason for the critique?

You two make way too long posts >.<

[katsuki]

Originally Posted by Ur Mom

You two make way too long posts >.<

i agree.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Ur Mom

You two make way too long posts >.<

Nah, they just need to use serifs. Times New Roman FTW. Though that orange does tend to burn my retina. Or maybe it was that laser in the eye the other day?

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by 3littlepigs

Didn't I explain my reasons for calling her a cry-baby in the rest of my argument?
I didn't notice anything when I read it. Explain to me how she doesn't deserve crying after what she's been through.

Actually, you're assuming I never judged Naruto for it but you're wrong. For your information I didn't really like Naruto until after the fight with Pain, and the reason was mostly that, that he let his emotions control him all the time and even if he was "trying" to be useful he just caused more trouble for everyone (well at least most of the time).
And you're also assuming I don't like Sakura as a character and that I'm just looking for whatever excuse to criticize her but that's not true. I think I have very valid points for disliking her right now and calling her a "cry-baby" and "useless" Kunoichi...
Ok, fine. My point is that she's not the only character to let thier emotions get in the way of their fighting. After this fight, if Sasuke survives, she'll probably feel depressed that she didn't take her chance to kill him, finally get real resolve, and maybe, just maybe, she'll actually start training to catch up to Sasuke, like Naruto's been doing all along.

That I can understand...Naruto's bond with Sasuke is separate from his promise to Sakura...he's after Sasuke for his own reasons. Yet I don't see your point with what you're saying? I didn't say anything about her strategy to kill Sasuke (but if you ask me it was stupid of her...Sasuke's a complete psycho but he's not an idiot.)
Sakura hadn't seen him in over 170 chapters, and the last time he wasn't the emotionally/mentally traumatized psycho he is now, he was just indifferent to them. Even though Sakura knew he'd changed, she'd counted on his "whatever it takes to reach my goal" ideal, which he mentioned at their encounter, to convince him that she would be useful. When she saw him again, she could tell that he'd drastically changed, but she had no choice but to stick to the plan she'd already worked out.

Yeah and that only gives her an excuse until Kakashi saved her. How do you make the same mistake twice in less than 15 min? You're basically agreeing with me on this..if she just had a meltdown and ended up being saved then why did she go back and try to kill him again when she already "knew" for sure she couldn't do it. I mean honestly if she wasn't able to do it 10 min ago it's obvious she wasn't going to be able to do it that second time...that's where most of my critique comes from.
That first time she was trying to decide whether to risk trying to kill him now, so she wouldn't have to kill Karin. She wasn't hesitating about whether she should kill him. She was hesitating about whether to lose a big part of her being able to kill Sasuke (catching him off-guard), so she wouldn't have to kill someone else. It wasn't until that second time, when she KNEW that doing this would kill Sasuke, and killing him wouldn't protect someone from imminent death, that she faltered.

Again...what are you quoting and replying to? If I ever said she wasn't strong enough to fight Sasuke or kill him I didn't write it in your thread...I just told you that I got mad at her because I admired her decision to kill him and then she ended up not doing anything except get Kakashi and Naruto in harm's way.
You said she was useless. She's only having to be saved by Kakashi and Naruto at the LAST POSSIBLE SECOND before she's killed becuase Kishi thinks it make them look heroic, or something. Instead, it makes him look sexist for making the FEMALE character too helpless to do anything but stand there with a shocked look on her face, while the MALE characters go off and do the REAL fighting.

She's obviously talented...I'm not saying she's not, if she wasn't Tsunade wouldn't have made her her apprentice. But she's an emotional wreck when it comes to Sasuke and whatever she might do right she ends up doing it wrong and messing things up. If she knows that (or at least realizes that in a fight) then the mature way to handle things would be to leave the job to others (like Kakashi saving her and giving her an opportunity to get away from the fight).
Again, she thought she could do this. It wasn't until she actually had a real chance to kill him that she realized she couldn't.

Also, pretty much anyone at that point could have sneaked up on Sasuke...the guy was just too shocked to see he's almost completely blind by now. And yes her hesitation was her only problem and that's exactly why she was useless!! believe me she didn't need any more "problems" at the time...just hesitating caused enough trouble.
Yes, she hesitated, but look at it this way: Would YOU be able to stab one of your close friends, even if they were attacking someone, and might kill them? I think you're trivializing how big a deal it is to stab someone becuase it's a manga.

Geez I know it's obviously for the plot that Sasuke's still alive...believe me I know that's also the reason why two of my favorite characters are gone (Itachi and Jiraya). Still actually hurting him would have sufficed for me, it would have proven her determination and her growth as a character IMO.
I know. I was so disapointed when I saw the panel where she stopped. I gaurantee you, Kishi would NEVER let a male character do that. But, of course, becuase Sakura's a GIRL, she's going to let EMOTIONS get in the way of her job. -_-... Seriously...

lol I have no idea...maybe because somehow you always end up sticking up for any character that's being criticized and somehow I always have a perfectly fine reason for the critique?
I ended up being right about the Karin debate, though. She wasn't just some Sasuke fangirl. She had a semi-reasonable reason for following him, and is now willing to leave. (I was also right about her being alive.)

[C4 Karura]

Originally Posted by Ur Mom

You two make way too long posts >.<

Sorry...

Originally Posted by Wooster

Nah, they just need to use serifs. Times New Roman FTW. Though that orange does tend to burn my retina. Or maybe it was that laser in the eye the other day?

Wait, it's annoying? Should I change it?

[VampireCat]

Can you change your text colour, please? (pink one)
Sorry but I can't read anything. :/

[Hidden Ninja45]

I don't hate Sakura after this chapter. I'm happy Sasuke didn't die yet.

Nice thread here. I didn't know that such little time had passed in the past 30 chapters.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

Sorry...


Wait, it's annoying? Should I change it?

Use whatever you like. Though anyone with color blindness probably either sees mustard or darkish brown.

In any case, don't use reds or pinks much worse. Even if they may stand out more. Those really hurt.

[VampireCat]

Tolerate her, people. :]
(Talking about Sakura)

[dillydally]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I have said this before and you have probably seen it but...

This isn't twiddlywinks of horseshoes, close isn't good enough. I agree Saskura's plan was impressive and flawless, which is why I assumed she couldn't be stupid enough to think killing Sasuke by herself was a good idea. Rather, she thought she could change his mind. I guess I was wrong.

I don't think Sasuke saw her hestitation, he was just going to kill her. I don't blame Sakura too much for this attempt, Sasuke was probably well beyond what she imagined he would be.

But the second time was just awful. She completely snuck up on Sasuke and could have killed him. I have no problem if Sakura can't bring herself to kill Sasuke. Naruto and Kakashi have the same problem, but she should know her own mind before she attempts to kill Sasuke. In this case, she is a danger to herself and others. Naruto only got a scratch on his cheek, but it could have been worse.

Then again, I don't hate Sakura. Her personality isn't my type, but Naruto really likes her, so I like her for his sake. Really I am just disappointed with her. She could be so much better.

But it is unrealistic for someone to really know what they are capable of doing without ever done it before. You have to understand that Sakura honestly thought that she be able to kill Sasuke without backing out, and in her mind she thought that she emotionally prepare to do it too. I don't believe she didn't actually have any hesitations about killing Sasuke until the very last moment, which is an extremely human quality. This is something that people deal with in real life. An example of this is that I don't have a fear of public speaking, nor do I have a problem doing so, but there have been occasions (not ever time tho) where I'm fine until I get to the podium and then I start to shake and find it extremely difficult to speak, which I find weird since I can do acting on stage and I am really good at debating/giving presentations in class, so generally I don't have a problem speaking in front of people. The point of that story is that you can't always know how you will react to a situation and you may think you'll react one way but in reality when your in a situation you'll act in a completely different way, Sakura is no exeption to this. You say that she should know her mind as if it is something easily done, but it really isn't. It is very rare for a person to truely know themselves, and those that do knew them self well enough to know how they will react in every situation are very special (ever heard of the saying you can not know how you will react in a situation until you live it). It is also very important to remember that Sakura isn't suppose to be this special above human standers being, she is the normal one and she is the most human character in the show, which is the reason why I like her so much but it is also the reason why people hate her so much.

Sorry for picking on you even tho you haven't been bashing Sakura like alot of people but that statement bothered me.

P.S- C4 great thread I agree with you completely, I tried to rep you but apparently I have repped you recently which I don't really remember when but oh well.

[3littlepigs]

Originally Posted by C4 Karura

I didn't notice anything when I read it. Explain to me how she doesn't deserve crying after what she's been through.
I'll change my font color because people seem to be bother by it...

What do you mean you didn't notice anything when you read it? I gave you a whole bunch of reasons as to why I consider she was useless in the last two chapters. Also I never said it's forbidden for her to cry, she's only human and so she has the right to cry. I meant that she shouldn't be crying at times like that...if she's unable to control her emotions and she can't stop crying then let others handle it! that's what I've been saying all along!

Ok, fine. My point is that she's not the only character to let thier emotions get in the way of their fighting. After this fight, if Sasuke survives, she'll probably feel depressed that she didn't take her chance to kill him, finally get real resolve, and maybe, just maybe, she'll actually start training to catch up to Sasuke, like Naruto's been doing all along.

Yeah, we agree on that whether she had killed him or not she would have been an emotional wreck afterward...that's typical Sakura. The thing is if she hasn't realized by now that she'll never be able to kill him (in terms of strength and emotionally as well) then she's worse off than I thought.

Sakura hadn't seen him in over 170 chapters, and the last time he wasn't the emotionally/mentally traumatized psycho he is now, he was just indifferent to them. Even though Sakura knew he'd changed, she'd counted on his "whatever it takes to reach my goal" ideal, which he mentioned at their encounter, to convince him that she would be useful. When she saw him again, she could tell that he'd drastically changed, but she had no choice but to stick to the plan she'd already worked out.

Again I fail to see your point since I wasn't debating her "strategy" to begin with. Either way, she let her guard down...for someone who doesn't trust the two people she was surrounded by (Sasuke and Karin) Sasuke was about to get her way too easily...Sakura hadn't even noticed until Karin spoke. That's how good her plan was...

That first time she was trying to decide whether to risk trying to kill him now, so she wouldn't have to kill Karin. She wasn't hesitating about whether she should kill him. She was hesitating about whether to lose a big part of her being able to kill Sasuke (catching him off-guard), so she wouldn't have to kill someone else. It wasn't until that second time, when she KNEW that doing this would kill Sasuke, and killing him wouldn't protect someone from imminent death, that she faltered.

She hesitated all right...if she had been a 100% determined and committed to killing Sasuke anyway possible she wouldn't have hesitated right there...I don't know at least that's the way I see it. Because it took her long enough to come to a decision she let herself wide open to Sasuke's attack. You should never turn your back on your enemy yet she did...which means deep down she still didn't fully consider him an enemy.

You said she was useless. She's only having to be saved by Kakashi and Naruto at the LAST POSSIBLE SECOND before she's killed becuase Kishi thinks it make them look heroic, or something. Instead, it makes him look sexist for making the FEMALE character too helpless to do anything but stand there with a shocked look on her face, while the MALE characters go off and do the REAL fighting.

Yes, I did say she was useless. We're not debating whether her actions are plot related or not...obviously characters like Sasuke and Naruto get lucky, etc all the time simply because of their roles in the series and Sakura's no exception. As a heroine she kind of sucks and though it's Kishi's fault I can still get mad at her and dislike her for it just like I do with Sasuke.

Again, she thought she could do this. It wasn't until she actually had a real chance to kill him that she realized she couldn't.

Exactly and as soon as she realized that she shouldn't have intervened any more.

Yes, she hesitated, but look at it this way: Would YOU be able to stab one of your close friends, even if they were attacking someone, and might kill them? I think you're trivializing how big a deal it is to stab someone becuase it's a manga.

The thing is I'm not a shinobi! killing people isn't my job! it's theirs....I'm not trivializing anything. This is a ninja series we're talking about not something like Fruits Basket. If she couldn't make up her mind fast enough to stab him the first time (when she was supposed to kill Karin) then emotionally she wasn't in the right place....also if she didn't want to kill him but all of a sudden just wanted to protect Kakashi (which that's not the case she just didn't want him carrying the burden alone) then yeah she should have stabbed Sasuke to stop him and protect Kakashi. She probably doesn't know Kakashi is Hokage now but I bet you even if she knew she still wouldn't have stabbed Sasuke. Isn't it her job to protect the Hokage? to protect Konoha? that's why I think even if she "loved" him or just because he's a childhood friend she still had a responsability to either get out of the way or carry her actions all the way through.

She failed miserably at both...

I know. I was so disapointed when I saw the panel where she stopped. I gaurantee you, Kishi would NEVER let a male character do that. But, of course, becuase Sakura's a GIRL, she's going to let EMOTIONS get in the way of her job. -_-... Seriously...


You're not the only one...I'm dissapointed in general with all the Kunoichi in Naruto. The only two that save the day are Temari and Konan.

I ended up being right about the Karin debate, though. She wasn't just some Sasuke fangirl. She had a semi-reasonable reason for following him, and is now willing to leave. (I was also right about her being alive.)

Well didn't she consider Sakura an enemy even after she was healing her? You did get the "Sakura healing her part" right though