In Defense of Danzo

[Kreegah!!!]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Gotta love how our Pro Danzo threads turn to Anti Tsunade threads.

I'm not quite as resentful of her presence as Wooster is, but I do agree with his character assessment of her. If she doesn't wise up, she will lead the Leaf, and indeed the Alliance, into destruction.

Originally Posted by Wooster

The greatest thing she ever did was abandon the village. Given that Jiraiya would have refused to be Hokage that would have made it a cinch for Danzo to lead.

I blame Naruto for bringing her back. What was he thinking?

He was thinking she sucked as a leader, remember? Blame Jiraiya. He was so against being Hokage that he went for the immediate out of another Sannin instead of suggesting other potentially good candidates.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Forgot about that. Yeah she should have left the village and THEN go in a coma.

Originally Posted by Wooster

Wish Kabuto would have killed her before Jiraiya arrived.

I guess then Sasuke would be stuck in a permanent coma...I guess that would have work out actually.

Here is a thought, how awesome would it be if the first part was rewritten from Danzo's or Root's perspective" Like they tried to make sure Sasuke didn't wake up or were planting thoughts into Jiraiya's, so he wouldn't want to be Hokage.

Or their gravest error, trying to get Tsunade to return, so they could have puppet Hokage only to find Naruto had changed her pessimistic, hopeless attitude into the Tsunade we despise today.

This theory is lovely. An orchestrated plot schemed by Danzo and the Elders. Love it!

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

So Tsunade is the failed machinations of Danzo???

Any other way it could work??? I think this fills in many plot holes.

Originally Posted by Wooster

He was concentrating on the Mist village and Orochimaru at the time no doubt. Probably a subordinate did it.

The Elder Advisers.

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

No wonder Danzo trusts nobody else.

Yeah, that was quite the screw-up, wasn't it?

At least Sai Shaft and Naruto stand at the ready, vigilant against the approaching threat.

And your assessment on The Will of the Two RS Broskis is quite good, Sticky, I must say.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

No wonder Danzo trusts nobody else.

He trust Sai Shaft to get funky.
/plays Isaac Hayes

Originally Posted by Kreegah!

I'm not quite as resentful of her presence as Wooster is, but I do agree with his character assessment of her. If she doesn't wise up, she will lead the Leaf, and indeed the Alliance, into destruction.

You should be. She did destroy Konoha with her ineptitude and arrogance.

He was thinking she sucked as a leader, remember? Blame Jiraiya. He was so against being Hokage that he went for the immediate out of another Sannin instead of suggesting other potentially good candidates.

By why didn't he use Shisui's eye on the elders or something. How can one blame Jiraiya? He at least had the wisdom to knwo he would be a poor Hokage and bow out.

This theory is lovely. An orchestrated plot schemed by Danzo and the Elders. Love it!

It would be interesting. It's retcon I support.

Any other way it could work??? I think this fills in many plot holes.

Danzo just got outvoted. Maybe that's why he started to get involved and leave the shadows. He saw how incomptent everyone from the Daimyo to the elders to the Jonin council were.

[quotw]
The Elder Advisers.
[/quote]
Why didn't Sasuke kill them instead. :/

Yeah, that was quite the screw-up, wasn't it?

At least Sai Shaft and Naruto stand at the ready, vigilant against the approaching threat.

And your assessment on The Will of the Two RS Broskis is quite good, Sticky, I must say.

Yes, yes it was.

Sai Shaft!

[Kreegah!!!]

Originally Posted by Wooster

You should be. She did destroy Konoha with her ineptitude and arrogance. I have the hots for ol' granny, what can I say??

By why didn't he use Shisui's eye on the elders or something. How can one blame Jiraiya? He at least had the wisdom to knwo he would be a poor Hokage and bow out.Still getting used to it maybe. That much yes, but he suggested what, one other person before suggesting Tsunade? Face it, he wasn't thinking of the village, he was just trying to ditch those two bags.

Danzo just got outvoted. Maybe that's why he started to get involved and leave the shadows. He saw how incomptent everyone from the Daimyo to the elders to the Jonin council were. Likely hypothesis. Masashi, are you listening??

Why didn't Sasuke kill them instead. :/
He isn't particularly bright outside academics??

Sai Shaft!

Seconded and in the Boldies.

[Wooster]

I want the First part rewritten with Danzo now. This must happen!

[Kreegah!!!]

You mean Part 1 of Naruto or the First part of something else that I'm oblivious to?

[Wooster]

Part 1 Naruto.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I want the First part rewritten with Danzo now. This must happen!

It must.

In a way Danzo himself is a retcon. Where was he in Part 1?

[Kreegah!!!]

He wasn't seen in Part 1 because his stealth mode status was unparalleled. He was seen in Part 2 b/c of plot and oldness getting to him.

[Skrall]

Danzo also seemed to betray Konoha to Orochimaru to become Hokage. However, his actual goal was to kill Sasuke. Now that nearly everyone except Naruto believes Sasuke should be killed, we can say that Danzo was just thinking ahead of everyone else.

I have a question regarding Danzo's affection and dedication towards the village.

Danzo was aware that the best way he could get close to Sasuke was by gaining Orochimaru's trust. So he did the unthinkable and gave Sai a folder with data intel about the ANBU corporations of Konoha in it, so that he could give it to Orochimaru as a sign of trust.

Wouldn't this put the citzens of Konoha in a problematic situation just because Danzo wanted to eleminate a single person? Even though Sasuke is an international proble to be dealt with, I don't offering Orochimaru intel about the Leaf would solve the problem. Orochimaru could have re-attacked the village and caused severe damaged to the village and its residents.

[Wooster]

They were Tsuande's personal ANBU not all the ANBU. As it would weaken Tsunade and possible lead to a better hokage, it is win-win.

[Kreegah!!!]

Originally Posted by Skrall

I have a question regarding Danzo's affection and dedication towards the village.

Danzo was aware that the best way he could get close to Sasuke was by gaining Orochimaru's trust. So he did the unthinkable and gave Sai a folder with data intel about the ANBU corporations of Konoha in it, so that he could give it to Orochimaru as a sign of trust.

Wouldn't this put the citzens of Konoha in a problematic situation just because Danzo wanted to eleminate a single person? Even though Sasuke is an international proble to be dealt with, I don't offering Orochimaru intel about the Leaf would solve the problem. Orochimaru could have re-attacked the village and caused severe damaged to the village and its residents.

Sadly, every spy agency in the real world's guilty of such tactics.

Originally Posted by Wooster

They were Tsuande's personal ANBU not all the ANBU. As it would weaken Tsunade and possible lead to a better hokage, it is win-win.

Exactly. Tsunade is strong and hot and not a leader. She could go run a brothel, maybe.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

They were Tsuande's personal ANBU not all the ANBU. As it would weaken Tsunade and possible lead to a better hokage, it is win-win.

I think people confuse the fact that Danzo opposes Tsunade
with thinking that Danzo opposes the village.

Really the only reason Danzo has to resort to such tactics
is because he has to. Remember that Kakashi was the immediate
choice for Hokage. Not because of his abilities but because
he was trained under Minato and his father was the White Fang.
Kakashi would have become Hokage for his relationships.

[Wooster]

Nepotism is hard to fight.

[mrsticky005]

I am a Danzo Fan. However, I regret to say that I wasn't always. I did think Danzo was an interesting character. But as a villain. I even thought that
Danzo would join the Akatsuki though it would be to stab Madara in the
back. I could not see the truth of Danzo. But Brother Wooster showed me
the light of Danzo and of the truth of Sai Shaft. I was blind but now I see...
That Danzo is awesome, and although not quite a "good guy" he's not evil
either. Wooster and I have been spreading the love of Danzo and Sai Shaft.
Some have converted. But others hold fast to their hatred of Danzo and
lead others astray with false idols like Princess Tsunade and The Sauce.
But just like Final Fantasy 4, it appears that before I can truly put an end
to the hatred of Danzo. I must first defeat....MYSELF!! That's right!
It's mrsticky005 vs mrsticky005. Will I be able to argue against myself
and show my former self that I was wrong about Danzo before but now
have come to know the truth that is the awesomeness of Danzo?

Let the Battle Begin.

First A quote from my old, foolish way of thinking...

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Danzo a good guy

let's see...

1. He trained people like Sai to do whatever he wanted them to do
2. He used methods similar to that of the Bloody Mist
3. He stole Shisui's Sharnigan which was from his own village
4. He killed the messenger frog
5. He hates Tsunade and the other Hokages
6. He supported the Uchiha massacre
7. He used mind control on people
8. He tried to kill Sasuke
9. He has connections with Orochimaru
10. He probably has connections with Madara
11. He savagely murdered the Hanya ninja
12. He wants to unite the ninja world AND make himself supreme leader
13. He had The Foundation do NOTHING to save Konoha knowing that Tsunade
would sacrifice herself to save Konoha so he could become Hokage.

Yeah Danzo sure sounds like a good guy to me. :P

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Danzo a good guy

Danzo isn't quite a good guy in the way Naruto is. But he does love Konoha. Though he is not a bad guy. Not like Madar.


let's see...

1. He trained people like Sai to do whatever he wanted them to do

Not quite. He trained them to complete the mission. Which is really
what all ninja are supposed to do. Danzo just trained them so they
wouldn't be clouded by their emotions. Which as we can see led
to many problems in the ninja world. Namely: The Sauce.


2. He used methods similar to that of the Bloody Mist

I agree. Danzo is cruel for sure. But unlike Madara who probably
had the Bloody Mist for his own twisted enjoyment. Danzo used
similar methods to rid The Foundation of emotion so they could
better complete the mission. Missions which we must remember
which were for the sake of Konoha.

3. He stole Shisui's Sharnigan which was from his own village

Which was a smart move considering that Madara wanted
and would have probably got it had Danzo not do this.
Danzo even crushed his (Shisui's) eye to prevent Madara
from getting Shisui's eye.

4. He killed the messenger frog

This was to keep Naruto from being captured. Sure Naruto learned
Sage Mode and was able to beat Pain but how was Danzo to know
this? As far as Danzo was concerned, Naruto was at risk of being
captured (and he nearly was.) Danzo was protecting Nine Tails
from getting captured by Akatsuki and in a sense Naruto too.

5. He hates Tsunade and the other Hokages

Rightfully so. Especially Tsunade. She let Sasuke go to Orochimaru
and she didn't even bother to fight Pain despite being Hokage.

6. He supported the Uchiha massacre

Which was necessary seeing how they wanted a coup d'etat.

7. He used mind control on people

To create a Ninja Alliance...which was created anyways.
Danzo did this to fight against Madara. Danzo saw the problem
before everyone else did.

8. He tried to kill Sasuke

And now so is everyone. Again Danzo saw the problem first.

9. He has connections with Orochimaru

So does Jirayia. Does that make Jirayia evil?

10. He probably has connections with Madara

Danzo and Madara probably have some sort of history but they
are definitely not working together.

11. He savagely murdered the Hanya ninja

They attacked first.

12. He wants to unite the ninja world AND make himself supreme leader

He wanted to unite the ninja world. He wanted to be in charge
because he didn't think anyone else was capable. Mifune showed this.

13. He had The Foundation do NOTHING to save Konoha knowing that Tsunade
would sacrifice herself to save Konoha so he could become Hokage.

True he was going to sacrifice Tsunade. But Danzo wasn't planning to sacrifice Konoha. Danzo was likely planning to defeat Nagato after
Tsunade was done away with. But Naruto arrived and luckily
did not get captured.


Yeah Danzo sure sounds like a good guy to me. :P

Danzo rules!

[Wooster]

Sticky v. Sticky Round 2.0

I must support Sticky!

Danzo a good guy
No, not exactly
let's see...
Okay
1. He trained people like Sai to do whatever he wanted them to do
Exactly, he trained SAI SHAFT!!! That already makes him awesome.
2. He used methods similar to that of the Bloody Mist
True, but he took orphans in and tried to make them better. It's like Annie, sure the Lady that runs the orphanage seems evil, but seem turns to have the orphans best interest at heart even if she is harsh.
3. He stole Shisui's Sharnigan which was from his own village
Shisui was evil and was plotting the destruction of Konoha, and why let a powerul jutsu like that go to waste?
4. He killed the messenger frog
To protect the nine Tails fox from the Akatsuki. He had to ddeal with Tsunade's stupidity. Drastic stupidity calls for drastic measures.
5. He hates Tsunade and the other Hokages
He HATES Tsunade, but who wouldn't? He believe Sarutobi followed the wrong path, but greatly respects him. He seems to follow Tobirama's ideas, one of the founders of Konoha.
6. He supported the Uchiha massacre
They were traitors. They had to be killed.
7. He used mind control on people
Only on Mifune to save the ninja world from Madara. Mifune later acted like it was his idea anyway. If Ao didn't detect Danzo, there would have been no problem. If they were united against Madara, perhaps they might have captured Sasuke or even Madara when he appeared.
8. He tried to kill Sasuke
Everyone wants to kill Sasuke including Sakura. The only exception is Tsunade and Naruto. Naruto at least will kill both of them if necessary.
9. He has connections with Orochimaru
Only to use Orochimaru's knowledge. Sarutobi let him escape.
10. He probably has connections with Madara
Yes, and they tried to kill each other as soon as they met. Danzo whole goal as a ninja is to stop Madara.
11. He savagely murdered the Hanya ninja
They attacked first.
12. He wants to unite the ninja world AND make himself supreme leader
Everyone wants to unite the ninja world. He should be the leader because it was his idea and he knows the most about Madara and will not let his emotion get in the way of the good of all.
13. He had The Foundation do NOTHING to save Konoha knowing that Tsunade
would sacrifice herself to save Konoha so he could become Hokage.
To get rid Tsunade. At least he didn't taunt Pain into destroying Konoha or almost have the Nine Tailed Fox kill everyone.

Yeah Danzo sure sounds like a good guy to me. :P

Danzo is Danzo. RESPECT THE WHEAT!

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Sticky v. Sticky Round 2.0

I must support Sticky!

Danzo is Danzo. RESPECT THE WHEAT!

Excellent. Show no mercy to Danzo haters! Even if they used to me.

BTW, I find it hilarious how I actually tried defending the Hanya Ninja.

[Wooster]

I think that was because you just wanted to be contrary.

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Wooster

I think that was because you just wanted to be contrary.

True. I think even when I was against Danzo I always had fun talking about him. Even when I thought he didn't have Konoha's best interests at hand
he was at least a really interesting villain. In short Danzo was never dull.

[Wooster]

True, Danzo added spice to the series. AS my OP states, I did not want to convince people to like Danzo or thing he was a good guy, I explicitly stated that he was not, but to respect him.