America is overprotective. (Spoilers through Ch. 338)

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by AshenREAPER

I don't mind as much dialouge sensor, but I absolutely hate it when production companies cut stuff out of anime(especially when you suddenly get the sense that you missed something that happened and it turns out it was because 1 or 2 seconds of action was just cut out).

If the show is overly violent it probably shouldn't be dubbed onto TV then. The reason they do it anyways though is typically to try and attract a younger fan base and hence get more fans to buy their stuff which, of course, means they need to appease the Soccer Moms.

But doing this tends to piss off the series long time fans which end up being the people who don't want anything cut out and are generally old enough to buy it on their own and handle what they see in it.

Seriously, trying to take a manga/anime that is originally not American standard child friendly and then making it American standard child friendly typically ends up ruining it in the eyes of the actual fans of the series, which is why I notice more people just sticking to fansubs/fan-translations than actually going out to buy the dubbed stuff.

Ok there's such a thing as the uncut DVDs and Itunes.
I get the Itunes version. Yes you have to pay for it
from Itunes but then again you have to pay for
that Disney XD channel too in your cable bill and
if you're not paying that cable bill you don't have
a lot of room to complain.

Personally it doesn't matter to me how much blood there is or if we see someone get their head exploded or not. It's just that if they are going
to edit something out then do it convincingly enough that I can't tell.

There are however times that I think seem overboard on editing the violence and that's when they take out something but without
it doesn't make sense.

Who are the "actual fans" anyways?

[AshenREAPER]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Ok there's such a thing as the uncut DVDs and Itunes.
I get the Itunes version. Yes you have to pay for it
from Itunes but then again you have to pay for
that Disney XD channel too in your cable bill and
if you're not paying that cable bill you don't have
a lot of room to complain.

Personally it doesn't matter to me how much blood there is or if we see someone get their head exploded or not. It's just that if they are going
to edit something out then do it convincingly enough that I can't tell.

There are however times that I think seem overboard on editing the violence and that's when they take out something but without
it doesn't make sense.

Who are the "actual fans" anyways?

When it comes to buying uncut DVD's there's still typically the problem of how the dubbed voices are horrible in some anime, but that's a whole other can of worms. And regardless, uncut DVD's don't help whats been edited out of manga. Although sooner or later, at least for a couple of manga that I've read the dubbed version of, there has been a second release that has stuff that was edited out of the original English release, put back in.

Anyways the actual fans are the people who are long time supporters of original Jap version of an anime/manga and the people who anticipated the arrival of said anime/manga in their native language. And then of course, the new fans are the younger generation that the edited version of an anime/manga typically target.

[princezzhinata]

Not only the manga...They ruined the show as well @_@

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by AshenREAPER

When it comes to buying uncut DVD's there's still typically the problem of how the dubbed voices are horrible in some anime, but that's a whole other can of worms.

By horrible dubs I'm hoping you don't mean Naruto. Although the early episodes aren't so great the quality of the dubs gets a lot better as you
go on. But as you said this is another can of worms.

Though if you don't watch the dub then are you complaining about
the edits of the subtitled version? Cause if you are then I'm pretty
sure it isn't edited by Viz. They leave it uncut from the original Japanese version. Only what's on Disney XD gets edited from the original Japanese.

And regardless, uncut DVD's don't help whats been edited out of manga.

I'll agree that it's a little disappointing when it doesn't follow the manga.
But you gotta take some and then leave some. The manga is more violent
because it's easier to get away with it.

Although sooner or later, at least for a couple of manga that I've read the dubbed version of, there has been a second release that has stuff that was edited out of the original English release, put back in.

You mean uncut version?

Anyways the actual fans are the people who are long time supporters of original Jap version of an anime/manga and the people who anticipated the arrival of said anime/manga in their native language. And then of course, the new fans are the younger generation that the edited version of an anime/manga typically target.

I consider the younger fans people who buy the series (whether it's itunes, disney xd, or dvds) or those who watch subtitle episodes on Naruto.viz.com (they get money from advertising).

[Hockey Otaku]

Originally Posted by NaruCrazy2009

I love how they edit under-age smoking in Anime/Manga, but they still allow crap like American Pie or MTV cussing. I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!

They also show teen smoking and drinking on MTV. Take World's Strictest Parents, for instance.

Originally Posted by AshenREAPER

This topic is exactly why a lot of people prefer subs over American TV dubs when it comes to Anime. America has this obscene thing about editing out anything that could possibly be scene as offensive or could possibly give bad social imaging to young people.

I've also heard it's to appease the whining soccer moms.

On the other hand, some hockey moms practically encourage their kids to cuss. (not mine though)

I don't mind as much dialouge sensor, but I absolutely hate it when production companies cut stuff out of anime(especially when you suddenly get the sense that you missed something that happened and it turns out it was because 1 or 2 seconds of action was just cut out).

And this. Quoted for truth.

[Nemico]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Hockey Otaku

A generalization based on the edits their editors have made. Let's focus on just one.

If you read the typical graphic novel format of Naruto that you can buy at the common bookstore, a Borders or whatever, you might notice something odd looking going on with the drawings of Shikamaru immediately after Asuma's death.

In chapter 331, his mouth is opened abmnormally all the time. And then on page 5 you see his hand, as if grasping something, but there's nothing there. I thought it looked like he was smoking.

Then in chapter 338, Shikamaru holds Asuma's lighter up near his mouth, but there's nothing there. If you look at an scan online, you can see he's lighting a cigarette. And in the American thing, he throws the lighter in order to set off the bombs and kill Hidan. He was actually throwing, in the uncut, the cigarette.

Apparently, in America, manga can include smoking on any level if the person is of the legal age. We see this with Ogata 9 Dan in the A-rated Hikaru no Go and Sanji in the T-rated One Piece. But apparently, if an underage person is smoking they have to edit it. This is found in Naruto, and in volume 1-2 of Hikaru no Go, when Tetsuo Kaga "puts out his gum on the go board". They made several inconsistencies when they edited that one. Another time, in Whistle, Shigeki Sato is shown smoking and an editor's note is written next to it that says "Chocolate cigarette, no smoking!"

Just something I noticed and decided to look into.

Didnt know that...
Thats just lame, it ruins the Moment.
I guess thats just the US for you, following the laws to the very smallest detail.

[ThePurpleChidori]

That's why the XD version of Shippuden stinks so bad; they won't even show Sasuke ALMOST stabbing Naruto, or Deidara's arm coming off, but they'll show the aftermath. They won't show blood and stuff.

In the manga, it's better, though it's understandable about the Shikamaru thing; he's 16 and underage. Still, I hate those edits. I hate when I miss out of 2 seconds of action.

That's why many are sticking with scans and subs. Scans and Subs, that's it. SS. That way it's not ruined.

[♥Gaara's Fangirl♥]

Originally Posted by Hockey Otaku

A generalization based on the edits their editors have made. Let's focus on just one.

If you read the typical graphic novel format of Naruto that you can buy at the common bookstore, a Borders or whatever, you might notice something odd looking going on with the drawings of Shikamaru immediately after Asuma's death.

In chapter 331, his mouth is opened abmnormally all the time. And then on page 5 you see his hand, as if grasping something, but there's nothing there. I thought it looked like he was smoking.

Then in chapter 338, Shikamaru holds Asuma's lighter up near his mouth, but there's nothing there. If you look at an scan online, you can see he's lighting a cigarette. And in the American thing, he throws the lighter in order to set off the bombs and kill Hidan. He was actually throwing, in the uncut, the cigarette.

Apparently, in America, manga can include smoking on any level if the person is of the legal age. We see this with Ogata 9 Dan in the A-rated Hikaru no Go and Sanji in the T-rated One Piece. But apparently, if an underage person is smoking they have to edit it. This is found in Naruto, and in volume 1-2 of Hikaru no Go, when Tetsuo Kaga "puts out his gum on the go board". They made several inconsistencies when they edited that one. Another time, in Whistle, Shigeki Sato is shown smoking and an editor's note is written next to it that says "Chocolate cigarette, no smoking!"

Just something I noticed and decided to look into.

Shikamaru does smoke...look it up on narupedia.Shikamaru took on smoking after Asuma's death.

[Anbu Psy-Ops]

Guys, it's important to keep some things in mind regarding this issue. No one is treading into flame territory yet, but keep yourselves levelheaded.

First you have to separate the editor’s preferences from America's general sensibilities. Would Naruto sell nearly as well if Viz got angry phone calls from parents because of a cigarette? There are a lot of different takes on how localizing should be approached, but every company hoping to sell entertainment in the U.S. HAS to pay attention to the social landscape. Japan has different mores and folkways than we do, it's just a fact. What's OK for children there does not, at times, "fly" over here in the States. And besides, is the cigarette REALLY that important considering the quality of the editing?

Furthermore, there are many many English-speaking anime and manga fanatics right now that were introduced to the culture through localized series such as Pokemon etc. So while there's definitely validity in desiring a more "pure" experience, just remember exactly how these things got to you in the first place. Not to mention, buying from Viz and other companies helps support the mangaka and production studios back in Japan. And yes, I say support. When’s the last time you heard of someone working in this industry driving a Lamborghini or living in a mansion?

And lastly, per AshenReapers comment, I refuse to believe that you can stratify fandom based solely on the ability to read Japanese and access something sold in another country. Anyone who loves a series is a fan of it, and though your appreciation might be more complex and developed, it doesn't help anything to start tacking on labels and pointing fingers. Lord knows I've not heard of many (if any) manga or anime that haven't been released in the U.S., and I'd have words with anyone who told me I wasn't THAT big a fan of what's currently dominating my bookshelf =D

It's an enormously complex issue, but just remember that the blame definitely does not lay entirely with editors. No one is perfect...but they are working in a relatively difficult position, and I encourage everyone reading this to do as much research as they can to become informed fans. We're a community: help each other out.

I agree with you Anbu. They have to "censor" what seems like things that aren't accepted here. The same thing went for Dragonball Z here is the US. The uncut Japanese version had more blood, cussing and etc etc.

[mrsticky005]

Good post Anbu.

[Ur Mom]

WE KNOW, we know Anbu, don't worry

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by Urmom

WE KNOW, we know Anbu, don't worry

You might. But others might not.

[trouble88]

man that was so stupid I see kids under 18 somke sometime and that was no big f**k deal who care anyway

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by trouble88

man that was so stupid I see kids under 18 somke sometime and that was no big f**k deal who care anyway

Parents do. They don't want their kids to start smoking because they see
other people do it.

[trouble88]

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

Parents do. They don't want their kids to start smoking because they see
other people do it.

well I still don't give a f**k

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by trouble88

well I still don't give a f**k

If you didn't give a f**k you wouldn't be complaining in the first place.


You say that kids under the age of 18 smoking is "no big f**k deal" but really
it actually is. Teenage smoking will probably never be stopped. But it shouldn't be encouraged. First of all smoking can over time kill the person
smoking it. So if you say "it's fine for kids to smoke" then you're also saying
"it's fine if someday in the future this kid gets lung cancer" because chances
are that kid WILL get lung cancer.

But I suppose you could make the argument that a cheeseburger will kill you over time.

The difference between ciggs and cheeseburgers is that there's no such
thing as second-hand cheeseburger. You can develop lung cancer from
second hand smoke.

Imagine you were a parent. Would you want your son or daughter smoking?

Honestly when I think about it, it seems pointless that Shikamaru suddenly
took up smoking because Asuma died and then gave up when defeating
Hidan. It seemed more like Kishimoto was thinking "I bet Shikamaru
would look cool smoking a ciggarette".

I mean does it really hurt the story taking out the ciggarettes?

[Hockey Otaku]

Spoiler:

[QUOTE=Anbu Psy-Ops;1970641]Guys, it's important to keep some things in mind regarding this issue. No one is treading into flame territory yet, but keep yourselves levelheaded. Ok!

First you have to separate the editor’s preferences from America's general sensibilities. Would Naruto sell nearly as well if Viz got angry phone calls from parents because of a cigarette? My mom wouldn't call them, she just wouldn't let me read it. There are reasons that I don't let her see the stuff. But I did tell her about this, and she didn't get mad. Then again, it's not like I'm 9 or something. There are a lot of different takes on how localizing should be approached, but every company hoping to sell entertainment in the U.S. HAS to pay attention to the social landscape. Japan has different mores and folkways than we do, it's just a fact. What's OK for children there does not, at times, "fly" over here in the States. And besides, is the cigarette REALLY that important considering the quality of the editing? Nope. I was just pointing out something I noticed.

Furthermore, there are many many English-speaking anime and manga fanatics right now that were introduced to the culture through localized series such as Pokemon etc. So while there's definitely validity in desiring a more "pure" experience, just remember exactly how these things got to you in the first place. Not to mention, buying from Viz and other companies helps support the mangaka and production studios back in Japan. And yes, I say support. When’s the last time you heard of someone working in this industry driving a Lamborghini or living in a mansion? I either buy the manga or I get it from the library. I don't like reading the scans, there's just something about holding an actual book. But the price is really high. It went up $2 (which doesn't sound like much, but it adds up) and it was high to begin with.

And lastly, per AshenReapers comment, I refuse to believe that you can stratify fandom based solely on the ability to read Japanese and access something sold in another country. Anyone who loves a series is a fan of it, and though your appreciation might be more complex and developed, it doesn't help anything to start tacking on labels and pointing fingers. Lord knows I've not heard of many (if any) manga or anime that haven't been released in the U.S. Go Ahead by Daisuke Higuchi. I want it sooo sooo bad, but it's not published here. And the last two volumes of Whistle, they haven't sold it in bookstores yet, so I'm kind of worried that they cancelled it. Which brings me to Zatch Bell, which was cancelled, and close to the end too., and I'd have words with anyone who told me I wasn't THAT big a fan of what's currently dominating my bookshelf =D

It's an enormously complex issue, but just remember that the blame definitely does not lay entirely with editors. No one is perfect...but they are working in a relatively difficult position, and I encourage everyone reading this to do as much research I <3 research as they can to become informed fans. We're a community: help each other out.[/QUOTE]

My responses are in orange

[Payton]

Originally Posted by Maikeru Shinigami

Absolutely correct.

In my opinion, it is pretty saddening that because some "soccer moms" don't like anything obscene or violent that it has to be ruined for everyone else. If you don't want yourr kids to see it put a lock on the show or something ... or just as good PAY ATTENTION to what they are watching. Why make the government do your job and ruin it for everyone? I don't get it.

Well, the funny thing about soccer moms is that when their kid watches things they consider "bad," they usually blame the company/ies that make/produce/air the show(s), rather than doing anything about it themselves. I remember on one Robot Chicken, there was a short clip of a business man sitting at a desk that said "If you're under 18 and watching this show, shame on your parents." So yeah, people need to stop pointing the blame on someone else, and do something about it if it's THAT big of a deal.

[Zazuro]

yeah and they get crazy with the trabslations like "Almight Push!" for Shinra tensei.

Come on, "Almight Push!"???? Shinra tensei jutsu can pull or ush things, not just PUSH! and geez, kage Summit - Gokage summit? Stop fooling around!!