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Old 01-01-2011, 05:18 AM   #1
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Default Bleach Spirit King Theory

So apparently Aizen isn't too fond of the Spirit King while Urahara calls it the "lynch pin" that holds the Soul Society together. Very little information is
given on the Spirit King except that it's in another dimension, it's guarded
and it seems to be a very hush hush topic. With this information combined with a quote of Aizen's I would say that the Spirit King is actually...


Spoiler:
Nothing. There is no Spirit King. Or more precisely the Spirit King is the belief that there is a Spirit King. Aizen suspects that the Spirit King is false but doesn't have proof that's why he had to get the Ouken. Urahara probably suspects there actually isn't a Spirit King but unlike Aizen
believes that it mean chaos if the truth got it. Aizen once said that "No one stands on the top of the world. Not you, not me, not even gods. But the unbearable vacancy of the throne in the sky is over. From now on...I will be sitting on it." So that seems like a major hint. Later Aizen talks to Shinji about how the weak rely on trusting those who are strong and that the strong trust in someone even stronger. Aizen then talks about hos this was the way that the "God of everything was born". It almost sounds like Aizen is inferring that the Spirit King exists. But what Aizen actually means is that the Spirit King was created by people's minds. It was created by those who need something to believe in. Not to mention it would be a huge troll on Kubo's part.
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Old 01-01-2011, 05:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

No Spirit King? Not that would just tickle me pink.
It is certainly plausible that he is just a just so story. The question is any one in the Soul Society know he doesn't exist.
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

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Originally Posted by Wooster View Post
No Spirit King? Not that would just tickle me pink.
It is certainly plausible that he is just a just so story. The question is any one in the Soul Society know he doesn't exist.
It would be the ultimate troll and we all know how much Kubo loves those.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Or maybe the Spirit King is more than one person?
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

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Originally Posted by tsuki View Post
Or maybe the Spirit King is more than one person?
Maybe though a King sorta makes it sound like it (should) be one person.
Though of course the "No Spirit King" theory would just make people
think that the spirit king is real. Too bad it will probably be a while before
Kubo reveals the answer to us.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
It would be the ultimate troll and we all know how much Kubo loves those.
He should make the final villain a troll...literally.

In the serach for the Spirit King a troll will come out and say, "I'm sorry but the princess Spirit King is in another castle."
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Nope, impossible. "I see... So you've seen him." This is what Urahara says to Aizen, at least in one translation. This in response to Aizen asking why Urahara, with his intellect, would make no move, and obey "That thing". Urahara would not have said that if there were no Spirit King. Notice how Aizen looks when Urahara says this, which would lead me to believe that he has, in fact, seen the Spirit King. If he's seen it, it means he can't believe it doesn't exist.

There's not enough here to make a legitimate theory, only small inferences.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by deidara330 View Post
Nope, impossible. "I see... So you've seen him." This is what Urahara says to Aizen, at least in one translation. This in response to Aizen asking why Urahara, with his intellect, would make no move, and obey "That thing". Urahara would not have said that if there were no Spirit King. Notice how Aizen looks when Urahara says this, which would lead me to believe that he has, in fact, seen the Spirit King. If he's seen it, it means he can't believe it doesn't exist.

There's not enough here to make a legitimate theory, only small inferences.
It is possible to see that there is nothing there.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
It is possible to see that there is nothing there.
But Aizen's further comments perpetuate the idea that there truly exists a Spirit King, in some form. Urahara says that the Spirit King is the lynchpin, and that that's the way the world is. So then Aizen says that that's the logic of a loser, that the winner should always think not of how the world is, but how it should be. Basically, Aizen is saying Urahara is a loser, and when he says "How it should be" he implies reference to how the world would be better without the Spirit King, as Urahara says he must exist. The entire conversation has an underlying meaning about the Spirit King, as Aizen thinks of the Spirit King only as a thing that must be opposed and eradicated from the world.

The things you provided, that imply the Spirit King doesn't exist, could also imply that he does. Aizen refers to the unbearable vacancy on the throne, but remember, he regards the Spirit King as a thing, not a person. His reference to vacancy could just as well be his refusal to admit, in any form, that that thing is a king, a ruler of anything.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by deidara330 View Post
But Aizen's further comments perpetuate the idea that there truly exists a Spirit King, in some form. Urahara says that the Spirit King is the lynchpin, and that that's the way the world is. So then Aizen says that that's the logic of a loser, that the winner should always think not of how the world is, but how it should be. Basically, Aizen is saying Urahara is a loser, and when he says "How it should be" he implies reference to how the world would be better without the Spirit King, as Urahara says he must exist. The entire conversation has an underlying meaning about the Spirit King, as Aizen thinks of the Spirit King only as a thing that must be opposed and eradicated from the world.

The things you provided, that imply the Spirit King doesn't exist, could also imply that he does. Aizen refers to the unbearable vacancy on the throne, but remember, he regards the Spirit King as a thing, not a person. His reference to vacancy could just as well be his refusal to admit, in any form, that that thing is a king, a ruler of anything.
I don't see how that disproves my theory at all.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
I don't see how that disproves my theory at all.
If the Spirit King doesn't exist, why would Urahara say Soul Society would crumble without him? I doubt that most Soul Reapers would care to know the Spirit King didn't exist.

Why did Aizen ask Urahara why he obeyed the Spirit King? Urahara is smarter than Aizen, if the Spirit King doesn't exist he knows. Again, it's not like Soul Society would crumble without the Spirit King.

Why did Urahara infer that Aizen had seen the Spirit King if there was nothing to see? Your theory says Aizen needed the Oken to prove the Spirit King didn't exist, but if he had seen the Spirit King (or that there wasn't one) there'd be no need. And when Urahara said Aizen had seen "him", Aizen practically confirmed it. I don't understand how that couldn't be outright stating there is a Spirit King.

I think it's just that if Aizen was only after the Oken to prove something he should already know, his entire escapade was almost completely pointless, and its result would've been completely underwhelming. I would be dissappointed he wasted such a speech over something that hardly mattered.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

If there was no spirit king then why does the soul society send their top captains to that other dimension.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by deidara330 View Post
If the Spirit King doesn't exist, why would Urahara say Soul Society would crumble without him? I doubt that most Soul Reapers would care to know the Spirit King didn't exist.

Because it's the IDEA that there is a Spirit King that keeps the Soul Society in the balance. There is an upper class and a lower class.
The upper class (or at least those in the know) know that there
is no Spirit King but they keep this secret from the lower classes
so that the lower classes do not revolt. The lower classes are
lower classes because they think it is the divine will of the
Spirit King or something like that. If they found out that the
Spirit King was an idea they would realize that they were made
to be lower class simply so the higher class could be the higher class.

Why did Aizen ask Urahara why he obeyed the Spirit King? Urahara is smarter than Aizen, if the Spirit King doesn't exist he knows. Again, it's not like Soul Society would crumble without the Spirit King.

Although the Spirit King doesn't actually exist it can be obeyed because
the orders of the Spirit King are simply orders created by the upper
classes. As explained above the reveal that there is no Spirit King
would show the lower classes that there is no point to them being
lower classes and therefore they will revolt against the system.

Why did Urahara infer that Aizen had seen the Spirit King if there was nothing to see? Your theory says Aizen needed the Oken to prove the Spirit King didn't exist, but if he had seen the Spirit King (or that there wasn't one) there'd be no need. And when Urahara said Aizen had seen "him", Aizen practically confirmed it. I don't understand how that couldn't be outright stating there is a Spirit King.

Aizen saw the Spirit King but he can't prove it's really not there
unless he gets the Oken and shows that there is no Spirit King.
The Lower Classes would then learn that they were being tricked
by the Upper Classes and would revolt. Aizen is trying to bring a
revolution to the soul society in which there are no classes.
However Urahara thinks that such a revolution would end in anarchy.

I think it's just that if Aizen was only after the Oken to prove something he should already know, his entire escapade was almost completely pointless, and its result would've been completely underwhelming. I would be dissappointed he wasted such a speech over something that hardly mattered.

But it's that he has to prove it to everyone else. He has to show the Lower Classes that they are just being used by the Upper Classes with the idea
that there is a Spirit King who says things should be a certain way.
Urahara doesn't want the Spirit King to be revealed to be a fraud
because it would mean a Civil War within the Soul Society between
the Lower Classes wanting to gain power and Upper Classes wanting
to maintain their power.

Basically Urahara thinks that the Spirit King while not existing holds
the Soul Society together by creating the Class System. Urahara
thinks that a class system must exist because he sees it as the
natural order of things. To Urahara there are people who give
orders and those who obey orders. Without the class system
and the idea there is a Spirit King which allows a class system
to exist in the first place, Urahara sees a breakdown of the
Soul Society which will end in anarachy. Therefore the illusion
must be maintained.

Aizen on the other hand thinks that the Spirit King is an evil idea
that makes people unequal by creating the Class System. Aizen
does not think a Class System should exist but rather he should
rule over a classless Soul Society. Aizen wants to prove that
there is no Spirit King to all of Soul Society to revolutionize
the Soul Society into his classless Kingdom where Aizen
rules over Soul Society but is kept in check by the people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil's Lawyer View Post
If there was no spirit king then why does the soul society send their top captains to that other dimension.
To maintain the illusion that there is a Spirit King.
Basically there will be the top class that knows the Spirit King
is just an idea and then there will be the lower class that is
controlled by their thinking that there is a real Spirit King.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
To maintain the illusion that there is a Spirit King.
Basically there will be the top class that knows the Spirit King
is just an idea and then there will be the lower class that is
controlled by their thinking that there is a real Spirit King.
The only problem is, that has never existed in the Bleach universe. The Spirit King has almost never been mentioned by anyone, there's been no definite ties between the Spirit King or the noble classes in any way, and lower classes have never shown even implication that they follow the upper classes due only to believing it's the will of the Spirit King. Byakuya is in one of the four noble families, and as far as I know he's never even hinted at a mention of the Spirit King. I find it hard to believe the idea a revolt would start over people finding out the Spirit King doesn't exist when so far no one's cared.
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:58 PM   #15
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The only problem is, that has never existed in the Bleach universe. The Spirit King has almost never been mentioned by anyone, there's been no definite ties between the Spirit King or the noble classes in any way, and lower classes have never shown even implication that they follow the upper classes due only to believing it's the will of the Spirit King. Byakuya is in one of the four noble families, and as far as I know he's never even hinted at a mention of the Spirit King. I find it hard to believe the idea a revolt would start over people finding out the Spirit King doesn't exist when so far no one's cared.
Maybe not...

But Chairman Aizen proposes...

THE GREAT FLASHSTEP FORWARD!!!!
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

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Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
Maybe not...

But Chairman Aizen proposes...

THE GREAT FLASHSTEP FORWARD!!!!
I C wat U did dere.

More like the great flashstep back, while everyone else gets crushed. Consider the things Aizen's said. He thought the world he was going to create was what the world should be. However, he also wanted to oppose and destroy the Spirit King, and he wanted to see the downfall of Soul Society. Urahara said that Soul Society would crumble without the Spirit King, but if you look at what Aizen's said, that's just what he wants. He told Ichigo when he transformed for the second time that he would see Soul Society's downfall with his own eyes. If his goals were to kill the Spirit King and to bring Soul Society down, and Urahara says killing the Spirit King will destroy Soul Society, then that's that.

There's a lot we don't know, but from what we do know, the Spirit King is someone whose existance is necessary, the same existance Aizen wished to eradicate.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

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I C wat U did dere.

More like the great flashstep back, while everyone else gets crushed. Consider the things Aizen's said. He thought the world he was going to create was what the world should be. However, he also wanted to oppose and destroy the Spirit King, and he wanted to see the downfall of Soul Society. Urahara said that Soul Society would crumble without the Spirit King, but if you look at what Aizen's said, that's just what he wants. He told Ichigo when he transformed for the second time that he would see Soul Society's downfall with his own eyes. If his goals were to kill the Spirit King and to bring Soul Society down, and Urahara says killing the Spirit King will destroy Soul Society, then that's that.

There's a lot we don't know, but from what we do know, the Spirit King is someone whose existance is necessary, the same existance Aizen wished to eradicate.

Well I don't see Aizen being a good guy. Especially if he's Chairman Aizen.

But somehow I think it might be a situation of evil either way.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:14 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

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Well I don't see Aizen being a good guy. Especially if he's Chairman Aizen.

But somehow I think it might be a situation of evil either way.
No matter what, Aizen wasn't a good guy. However, that doesn't mean the Spirit King is either. You're right, there could be evil coming from both ends here.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:44 AM   #19
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No matter what, Aizen wasn't a good guy. However, that doesn't mean the Spirit King is either. You're right, there could be evil coming from both ends here.
I could see Kubo making Aizen into the
"good intentions pave the road to hell" type villain.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bleach Spirit King Theory

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I could see Kubo making Aizen into the
"good intentions pave the road to hell" type villain.
Hmmm, but there's still that one line that makes me think otherwise: "I'm glad. Now I will be able to see Soul Society's downfall with my own eyes". He wanted Soul Society destroyed, and not only that, but he wanted to bear witness to its destruction. He tricked all the Captains and Lieutenants and then fought and nearly killed most of them. Aizen drove Urahara out of Soul Society by framing him for Aizen's own crime. He sacrificed people to the Hogyoku and had his followers kill people, and even killed his followers. I'm thoroughly convinced no matter what good came of Aizen's actions, he always had evil foremost in his heart (assuming he even had that).
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