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Old 08-23-2009, 11:32 PM   #1
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Default Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

There will be Spoilers.







I gotta give inspiration credit to V-Valentine for this theory, because I wouldnt have even noticed it enough to study if I hadnt seen her topic. But after some serious nerdism and hours of interpratation, I found out Tobi's Identity.


The 2nd Hokage. Tobirama Senju - The brother of the 1st Hokage. This man helped to found Konoha. He was there for the beginning, and he knows all about the past of the Leaf Village and how it was created. Was present for Madara's rivalry with Hashirama, and for their fight.

Tobi or as he calls himself, Madara Uchiha - The true leader of the Akatsuki. According to himself, he is Madara Uchiha. He was one of the first people to found Konoha, along side Hashirama the 1st Hokage. He was not chosen to become the village's first leader, leading him to rebel and fight against Hashirama, losing the battle. Assumed dead.

Madara was the leader of the Uchiha clan. They, along with the Senju clan, were the two most powerful clans in The Land Of Fire. Together, they populated and built Konoha. The Uchiha clan were extremely powerful. The Sharingan made their clan invincible.

Hashirama was the leader of the Senju Clan, the other most powerful clan in the lands. After Hashirama's death, the clan leader passed to his brother Tobirama, and the eventual choice for 2nd Hokage.

Madara tried staging a revolt against Hashirama's clan, and the entire village. Everyone felt Hashirama should be in charge. Because of this, Hashirama confronted the angry Madara about this revolt. They talked at the Valley of the End, an area ripped apart by the immense battle of the 2 ninja. Madara was said to have lost and died here, leaving Hashirama in dire shape. Eventually, Hashirama passed away during the wars. No details are known of his death. He could have died fighting, maybe of old age? There are no answers.

This left his brother Tobirama. Tobirama had an excellent skill when it came to using Water Jutsu. He was actually said to be the great Water Stylist in the entire Shinobi World. Tobirama's life ended in unexplained ways; Said to have died in the Ninja War.

Around this same time, Madara Uchiha appeared again in the world. He became the Mizukage of the Mist Village. This is an area solely based on Water Jutsu. Madara/Tobi has proved his skills as a Water user, and to have became Mizukage, is obviously one of the, if not THE best. It is unclear whether he was the 2nd or 3rd Mizukage, being as the Jinchuuriki was 4th and the current female is 5th.

Tobirama was put in total charge after his brother's death. During this time, he established the Konoha Police Squad, leaving the Uchiha to lead that area. He also established ANBU. It was later told by Madara/Tobi that Tobirama established the police to keep the Uchiha AWAY from the government, in turn, ordering the ANBU to keep an eye on the Uchiha.

This leads me to believe that Tobirama dislikes the Uchiha Clan and doesnt trust them. Madara would have been angry, now hating his clan. They turned against him in the final hour, and let him bear the full punishment of the Staged Uchiha Revolt. He would eventually get his revenge. At a later time, he managed to make contact with Danzo and the Elders to order Itachi to kill the entire clan, and Madara/Tobi would use Itachi to carry this out. This is an unexplained link he has with the elders and Danzo.

Tobirama was the team leader of Hiruzen and the 2 Elders. Eventually when Hiruzen went his own way, the 2 elders became companions of Danzo. This would have led to a relationship between Tobirama and Danzo. Eventually he chose to put Danzo in charge of ANBU, and Danzo was distinguished enough to run against Hiruzen for the title of 3rd Hokage. There is a link between Tobi and Danzo.

Tobirama was always 2nd to Hashirama. 2nd to lead the Senju, 2nd to be chosen as Hokage, 2nd on the mountain, just always AFTER his brother. We don't know much at all about him. He is by far the least celebrated of the Kages. Maybe this drove him to become what Tobi now is. A reincarnate of Madara Uchiha. There are no details of Tobirama's death, he is just said to have died in the Ninja War. But do we know that for sure?

Tobi is awfully knowledgeable about the founding of Konoha. How much DO we know about the relationship between the 1st and 2nd? Not much. Only those 2 and Madara Uchiha have a knowledge of that past, and were around to witness it. The 1st is confirmed dead, and everyone was dead certain that Madara is too. But nothing is ever explained about the 2nd's death. All these Tobi events started when Tobirama's life was coming to a close. Is it not possible that Tobirama ended up hating his very village, that praised his brother like a god?

Look, the Uchiha Eye is no longer some holy grail that no longer people come by. Danzo got one without being a Uchiha or anyone notice. Kakashi got one, and we see that Tobi has at least one. It is feasible that Tobirama could get one.

Orochimaru's reincarnation though? The Reincarnation Jutsu was said to bring back the soul of someone, their WILL and their fighting skill and puts it into someone elses body. These Reincarnations had the personalities and some abilities of their reselmblances, but they were not at full power. A worn-out, older and weaker Hiruzen proved this, by taking them both on at once.

Tobirama was once good to his village, there is no doubt of that. But when an act of evil starts to take you over, the soul seemingly splits. Perhaps what was summoned was the remainder of what good was in his soul, or perhaps that wasnt even his full soul that was summoned? There are flaws to that Jutsu. Clearly.

That Teleportation of Tobi's. Tobirama was the inventor of the Bringer of Darkness jutsu. Hashirama knew it as well, but its said that Tobirama made it. It is an attack on your sight, making it impossible to see. Is it possible that he twisted this very Jutsu to cut off his opponents sense, allowing him to visually and seemingly transport away from the opponent? It would even render Doujutsu like the Sharingan useless.

It seems that the Sharingan can fool another Sharingan user. Nobody could see who Danzo's eye really belonged to, until a man who came across a Hyuga eye, made the notice. The Hyuga's are always to themselves. We know that they are of great power, but seem to take a much older-fashioned approach to the Village. This would lead people like Tobirama and Madara and Danzo to not notice that they can see through a guise like that. They kept a worry on the Uchihas, hiding things from them, not realizing the depth of the Byakkugan.

I still find it fishy that Hiashi Hyuga just happened to be out of town during the Pain attack, which Madara would have ordered...But I wont get into that right now.

It also seems the last of the Senju have been terminated, with the exception of Tsunade, who recently had a pretty big attempt on her life at the hands of Pain, in turn, Tobi. But why was such an entire clan taken out? How for that matter? There were still countless Uchiha's before the slaughter of their race, but still, even THEY were less powerful then the suddenly extinct Senju? Could Tobirama, the last Senju leader, have had something to do with this? Or did Tobi perhaps take care of his mortal enemies?

Anyway, there's just too much similarities between the two. Just read and see what I mean.

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Old 08-23-2009, 11:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

ok tbc i have to sk i like the theroy nut one flaw.Oro brung back the second hokage with his renincrnate jutsu during his fight with the 3rd hokage.
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Uchiha View Post
ok tbc i have to sk i like the theroy nut one flaw.Oro brung back the second hokage with his renincrnate jutsu during his fight with the 3rd hokage.
Ah yes, I forgot to adress this. The Reincarnation Jutsu was said to bring back the soul of someone, their WILL and their fighting skill and puts it into someone elses body. These Reincarnations had the personalities and some abilities of their reselmblances, but they were not at full power. A worn-out, older and weaker Hiruzen proved this, by taking them both on at once.

Tobirama was once good to his village, there is no doubt of that. But when an act of evil starts to take you over, the soul seemingly splits. Perhaps what was summoned was the remainder of what good was in his soul, or perhaps that wasnt even his full soul that was summoned? There are flaws to that Jutsu. Clearly.
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

ok now i agree with u fully
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

I really like this prediction, it makes a lot of sense. It would make the series a lot more interesting. Also, Tobi = First 4 letters of Tobirama.
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Old 08-23-2009, 11:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
Ah yes, I forgot to adress this. The Reincarnation Jutsu was said to bring back the soul of someone, their WILL and their fighting skill and puts it into someone elses body. These Reincarnations had the personalities and some abilities of their reselmblances, but they were not at full power. A worn-out, older and weaker Hiruzen proved this, by taking them both on at once.

Tobirama was once good to his village, there is no doubt of that. But when an act of evil starts to take you over, the soul seemingly splits. Perhaps what was summoned was the remainder of what good was in his soul, or perhaps that wasnt even his full soul that was summoned? There are flaws to that Jutsu. Clearly.
still confuses me. but good theory.
soul seemingly splits? we need more proof...
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

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still confuses me. but good theory.
soul seemingly splits? we need more proof...
4th Hokage is your proof. Part of his soul went into sealing the Nine Tails, part of his soul stayed behind inside Naruto.

Same for the Nine-Tailed. His will, chakra, and mind are still inside Naruto, despite being sealed away by the Death Reaper. So why not his soul?
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
Ah yes, I forgot to adress this. The Reincarnation Jutsu was said to bring back the soul of someone, their WILL and their fighting skill and puts it into someone elses body. These Reincarnations had the personalities and some abilities of their reselmblances, but they were not at full power. A worn-out, older and weaker Hiruzen proved this, by taking them both on at once.

Tobirama was once good to his village, there is no doubt of that. But when an act of evil starts to take you over, the soul seemingly splits. Perhaps what was summoned was the remainder of what good was in his soul, or perhaps that wasnt even his full soul that was summoned? There are flaws to that Jutsu. Clearly.
I must say that your theory was impressive...but this is still a flaw, the Japanese culture, were Kishimoto based Naruto, and by their beliefs, the body is like a prison to the soul, so if you can revive a soul of someone it means that the body is no longer a prison, so the person is dead....the second Hokage well, I don't know if he had reasons to hate Konoha like Tobia seems to have (if he is Madara or Izuma), but at least it was enough for him to feel frustrated, that I would give to you...and if Madara had the capacity to capture "souls" or parts of it Tobirama would be a fine choise...

About the Senju clan almost dissapeared, well, people die, there was only the need that men were killed, and the women married with other clan members, in two, three generations there would be no more Senju clan...cause if this is a clan that works on the way, woman take her husband name, well, it would end when Tsunade die (cause if she had children they would be from the other clan)

About the hyuuga, I have a theory about that....that I will explain in a thread..but I believe the reason that the Hyuuga were a so closed and self centered clan, was because of the Uchiha...
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
4th Hokage is your proof. Part of his soul went into sealing the Nine Tails, part of his soul stayed behind inside Naruto.

Same for the Nine-Tailed. His will, chakra, and mind are still inside Naruto, despite being sealed away by the Death Reaper. So why not his soul?
what is the Death Reaper?? the Nine-tails?
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

pain was the fourth mizukage
and he wasnt a jinchuuriki
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anbu_Black_Op View Post
what is the Death Reaper?? the Nine-tails?
um nine tails is kyuubi the beast with in naruto
if u dont no that then i dont see how ur a naruto fan
and the th reaer death seal is a jutsu that seals the user in an eternal genjutsu with wat ever he or she used the jutsu on
destined to fight for the rest of eternity
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

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pain was the fourth mizukage
and he wasnt a jinchuuriki
Spoiler:

Yagura was the 4th Mizukage.
Pain/Nagato was around 30 years of age.
So Yagura was most likely Mizukage before Nagato was even born.
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

very thought out theory
and it could be true
i mean y ekse would he change his name
and y tpbi at that
very thought out and a very believable
the only good theory ive ever read
all the other ones are about tobi actually being obito who was dead crushed under a rock lol
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
4th Hokage is your proof. Part of his soul went into sealing the Nine Tails, part of his soul stayed behind inside Naruto.

Same for the Nine-Tailed. His will, chakra, and mind are still inside Naruto, despite being sealed away by the Death Reaper. So why not his soul?

it was a fail safe left by minato if naruto reached 8 tails
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Very strong theory, it would explain him being the Mizukage...but the one thing that seems off is the reincarnation Jutsu Orochimaru used. I understand the whole splitting of a soul but even still. His soul was eaten by the Shinigami, split or not, his whole being should be gone. Sandaime used his Kage Bunshin to do the sealing and yet he was going to die anyway....
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Tobi(Rama) theory.

My favorite yet.

But I found one problem,

How did Tobi block Suigetsu's

sword attack using merely a bolt

on his body? That was the only time

he made physical contact with anything.

And it was no easy feat...
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Of Six Paths View Post
Tobi(Rama) theory.

My favorite yet.

But I found one problem,

How did Tobi block Suigetsu's

sword attack using merely a bolt

on his body? That was the only time

he made physical contact with anything.

And it was no easy feat...
Tobirama is said have posessed over whelming physical prowess and enormous Tai Jutsu skills.
Naruto even said Tobirama was the man with the best combat ability.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Of Six Paths View Post
Tobi(Rama) theory.

My favorite yet.

But I found one problem,

How did Tobi block Suigetsu's

sword attack using merely a bolt

on his body? That was the only time

he made physical contact with anything.

And it was no easy feat...
I made a theory about that,.......it probably got buried.....
and good Theory TBC, I like it.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

What I'm wondering is if you mean to say that he's Tobirama and not Madara, or if he's both ztobirama AND Madara.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Madara/Tobi's True Identity!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Valentine View Post
Tobirama is said have posessed over whelming physical prowess and enormous Tai Jutsu skills.
Naruto even said Tobirama was the man with the best combat ability.
Yep, that's pretty much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Of Six Paths View Post
Tobi(Rama) theory.

My favorite yet.

But I found one problem,

How did Tobi block Suigetsu's

sword attack using merely a bolt

on his body? That was the only time

he made physical contact with anything.

And it was no easy feat...


Well, I completely agree with this theory, all the loose knots seem tied up and such.
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