The Communist Takeover Theory.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Cade

PS:The Soivet Union is now Russia.

No. It's now the US.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

No. It's now the US.

I wished. i am tired of being half and half. socialist and capitalist.

[Bellicose Wolf]

I would dissagree, if we look at the Russian Revolution of 1912, Vladamir Lenin tried to reform the goverment with a Marxist type of application, hence the 'War Communism' doctrines invited the citizens to apply their labor for no monetary currency system, simply so that their county could hold together. As such, I doubt it's human imperfection, seeing as communism tends to 'unite' under a flag of allegiance with your citizens, so it could more-so be said that economically it fails because of outbursts. Plus I don't think it would be fair to say that they failed, many farmers and workers were working just solely to survive, so I doubt they held much contention to the economic stupor they were placed in.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

I wished. i am tired of being half and half. socialist and capitalist.

Thanks Fdr/sarcasm

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I would dissagree, if we look at the Russian Revolution of 1912, Vladamir Lenin tried to reform the goverment with a Marxist type of application, hence the 'War Communism' doctrines invited the citizens to apply their labor for no monetary currency system, simply so that their county could hold together. As such, I doubt it's human imperfection, seeing as communism tends to 'unite' under a flag of allegiance with your citizens, so it could more-so be said that economically it fails because of outbursts. Plus I don't think it would be fair to say that they failed, many farmers and workers were working just solely to survive, so I doubt they held much contention to the economic stupor they were placedin.

i dont quite get you. i read it but i am finding a hard time understanding what you are trying to say.

[Gamabunta]

Lenin allowed small amounts of capitalism.

[Bellicose Wolf]

I am referencing to the economic collapse of Russia during the early 1900s, the czar was thrown out of authority by the Bolsheviek party leaders (Joseph Stalin, Vladamir Lenin, Trotsky), and were advent interpreters of Marxist theory.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I am referencing to the economic collapse of Russia during the early 1900s, the czar was thrown out of authority by the Bolsheviek party leaders (Joseph Stalin, Vladamir Lenin, Trotsky), and were advent interpreters of Marxist theory.

I am quite current with what happened with the czar. what i didnt get is that if you were blaming the failing on the leader or the people.

[Bellicose Wolf]

Well yes he had to allow some forms of capatilism, but the more documented aspects of the revolution were placed around small time pesants that suffered most from War Communism. But, even though he did allow some capatilism, it was for a means to an end, he knew his ideals couldn't be reached without proper financial standing. Regardless Communism is heavily based around ways of thinking, and operating on a large scale basis as an individual on a small scale application. China to me at least, is a prime example of a country that may one day be able to emulate Carl Marx's ideal 'utopia'.

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

Well yes he had to allow some forms of capatilism, but the more documented aspects of the revolution were placed around small time pesants that suffered most from War Communism. But, even though he did allow some capatilism, it was for a means to an end, he knew his ideals couldn't be reached without proper financial standing. Regardless Communism is heavily based around ways of thinking, and operating on a large scale basis as an individual on a small scale application. China to me at least, is a prime example of a country that may one day be able to emulate Carl Marx's ideal 'utopia'.

bring on communism. Tho i think it is too much people to actually control into communism. I think communism would work perfectly on small countries. The smaller the population the easier it is to control. but the easier it is to get lost too.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

bring on communism. Tho i think it is too much people to actually control into communism. I think communism would work perfectly on small countries. The smaller the population the easier it is to control. but the easier it is to get lost too.

Good idea. Give more control and power to corrupt politicians.

[Bellicose Wolf]

I would gladly accept Communism into my daily life. It is true that often the leaders of the Communist establishments become corrupted, as in the case of Joseph Stalin. (Which was only because of Lenin's multiple strokes) Though as Marx plainly stated, it takes a willing mind to adopt certain forms of goverment. Look at how feverently people are oppsoing health-care reform, which typically the opposers are un-educated, and uninformed, which I find amusing because it reminds me of the letter Stalin sent to Lenin when he was attempting to join the Bolshevik party. Often Lenin would reply to him he was an un-educated, and received too much of his information from newspaper tabloids.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by Bellicose Wolf

I would gladly accept Communism into my daily life. It is true that often the leaders of the Communist establishments become corrupted, as in the case of Joseph Stalin. (Which was only because of Lenin's multiple strokes) Though as Marx plainly stated, it takes a willing mind to adopt certain forms of goverment. Look at how feverently people are oppsoing health-care reform, which typically the opposers are un-educated, and uninformed, which I find amusing because it reminds me of the letter Stalin sent to Lenin when he was attempting to join the Bolshevik party. Often Lenin would reply to him he was an un-educated, and received too much of his information from newspaper tabloids.

I oppose it. I am one of the most intelligent users on this forums. Praticality > Large bureaucracies

[itachiuchiha85]

Originally Posted by Gamabunta

Good idea. Give more control and power to corrupt politicians.

i rather be ruled by one corrupted politician than 50 corrupted senators and countless more corrupted mayors.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

i rather be ruled by one corrupted politician than 50 corrupted senators and countless more corrupted mayors.

Imagine Bush with that power. The war on human rights

[Bellicose Wolf]

I mean no spite, or wrongful intentions at the question and statements that are going to follow.
I would accept it just because of the unending amount of petty, selfish, capatilist fueled humans that I have to suffocate from on a daily basis. I can understand your concern whole-heartedly Gamabunta, but I think even you can agree that a goverment where we work together for a common cause for a better future for a 'few sacrificies' I would be all for it, just the same to Socialism. The practicality of capatalism is beyond questionable, the reality is when a nation or organization requires resources, they take it. Be it through monetary exchange, or exchange of weaponry, history has proved this and it is being implemented even to this day. I am a pacifist myself, but I do know that human beings are beyond destructive and are most certainly useless if you compare our techonological contributions to the enviorment to what we've already destroyed. I also would not want to rip away peoples free thinking, but neurology and linguistics proves that there is no such thing as 'words'. It is true that we communicate, but it's just an instinct we have as predators that makes us so efficient. As such, I can't say that I support some goverment fat-head making an extra two-dollars on a can of tuna because he can, and because I have no military to back up my ideas.

[Gamabunta]

Just talk to any Cuban or Soviet refugee. Do you somehow believe american politicians are more trustworthy?

[Shkin]

Originally Posted by itachiuchiha85

bring on communism. Tho i think it is too much people to actually control into communism. I think communism would work perfectly on small countries. The smaller the population the easier it is to control. but the easier it is to get lost too.

this is where we differ again cowboy. communism is not achieved individually by countries or state. we can only say that we are in a communist state if it is being practiced in the whole wide world. countries may not be present during communism...at the very least countries will not work as they are right now.
communism is not about controlling people. its about peoples control of themselves. individual leaders are not present in communism. its the people that leads.

[Gamabunta]

Originally Posted by shkin

this is where we differ again cowboy. communism is not achieved individually by countries or state. we can only say that we are in a communist state if it is being practiced in the whole wide world. countries may not be present during communism...at the very least countries will not work as they are right now.
communism is not about controlling people. its about peoples control of themselves. individual leaders are not present in communism. its the people that leads.

That's marxism not communism.

[Bellicose Wolf]

No politician can be warranted in anyway to be branded 'trustworthy'. Regardless of what nation they come from the fact is their defection was treason. Either an individual must accept their anarachy to goverment norms, or stumple around for a life-time, bickering over how gas is to pricy, or how milk's price is absurd and do nothing because the sheet of false comfort the people with weapons provides them with a sense of semi-completion as a citizen. I'm not saying goverment is hopeless and bleak, but either you are a drone distressing a maiden's call for aid from your goverment, or you seek power. Either one is equally admirable and respectable, but with great power comes great responsiblity.