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Old 08-13-2009, 01:51 AM   #1
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Default Controversy AHEAD!!!!

OK. Christianity is the worlds largest religious following. So for the sake of an argument, were all religions before the advent of, and now during, Christianity wrong or right? Why? On what groups and what religion or spiritual belief are you referring to? Defend your arguments civilly please.
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Old 08-13-2009, 01:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

It is my belief that all religions depend on humans being able to percieve beyond their senses. Whether you beliefe in such things as spirituality or not, we are sill blind little things without any real understanding of their own world, let alone what lies beneath, so to speak. As a result, I believe that all religions are social clubs that provide a nice living for the priests and give people a false sense of understanding. Willfully ignoring ones own ignorance with the assistance of others.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:05 AM   #3
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Does anyone have an actual exact date for the start of religion, I mean an actual written down date that didn't come from a bible?
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

While there are records of peoples that predate the bible, there are no currently practiced religions that have been proven to exist in their current form before biblical history. Of course Biblical history only goes back 16k years or so depending on which theologian you talk to and archeological records go back over 50k years soo... If we assume that people then had the same desire to explain their existence that we do now, there must have been religions back then.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

The Paleolithic era is the earliest findings of humans....in a sense...preforming any spiritual acts like burying items with the dead... and in fact burying them wrapped in cloth.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

In the end, records written at the time of a religion's practice only go back so far, but then so do writing and mathmatics. We have articles of evidence such as burial sites and things like stone henge and others that indicate religious or at least organized views on the world at large. But we don't have any written examples from so long ago.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Further since the current dating system was concocted by mathmeticians working for the Pope hundreds of years ago, dating itself is a bit suspect when it comes to pre-history. Carbon dating for instance will tell us how long ago a carbon mollecule was formed, but that doesn't help us with aging a tool very much. Mostly people look at which layer of earth you find an object in.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Evidence of religious ideas predates any form of written language. So we do not have any form of solid idea for the start of such practices, but we do have a few educated guesses, still those are only guesses. Some historians believe that cave paintings were religious acts, but that's another educated guess. There is no way to know when the first religious act was performed without being able to look back into the time stream.

It is hard to say that a religion is wrong or right, for that is an opinion that is often individually desided. It could be argued that many religions before the current collect were more childish, but that is also an opinion, making it difficult to say anything about them. Some people today still believe the old faiths, or at least give them thought, I'm an example. My religion would be considered long dead by most people's perception of religion in time.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

OK. Math is still math and dates back to the greeks! Yes the calander and dae were decided by a group of religious mathemetitions, but the pope just heard what they had to say and said ok to it. Time periods are a scientific thing and science has little bearing on religion. The oldest burial was found to have signs of human spirituality and it is from the stone age... Carbon dating is actually fairly accurate! Now I am done writing off topic as the last few posts have been.

I believe tht most religions are wrong. Christianity has a great deal of faith put into it and that makes it one of the most powerful things on this earth. The same can be said of ancient religions! Take the Egyptians for example. I don't know of another religion that has had a bloodless victory because of their faith. (Middle Kingdom-Defeat of their enemy by carrying kittys into battle) And look at the vikings. Their faith was so strong that when someone was killed in battle, their family would travel with thim to the afterlife. Voluntary sacrifice of themselves on a burning boat funral pyre! I believe that "Religion" is wrong then and now, but faith is what keeps the blood flowing.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Carbon dating is accurate, but it is often missunderstood as well. A rock that has been flaked off into a blade of some kind will show up as being as old as the rock itself. This does not tell you when the blade was formed. That is all I was saying.

Math as a systematic construct was first recorded by the greeks. At least theirs are the earliest surviving records. This does not mean a number system was first used by the greeks, but that they are the earliest we know about that took it very far.

Burial is not the only form of body disposal that has been invested with spiritual beliefs. People keep forgetting that the offering of the body to the world that it came from (leaving it out for scavengers and such) is not necessarily a refusal of spiritual belief. Nor is cremation.

Faith is a powerful motivator. That cannot be denied. That faith does not ensure that the family of the viking warrior will actually follow them into a real afterlife any more than a person's faith will let them walk on the ocean. Faith can also be termed wilful blindness when taken too far. It is not so much powerful as it is deceptive. Although it cannot be denied that a good lie can have great influence.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Besides, Science is religion. If science is viewing, testing and explaining the world according to the testable senses. It qualifies as a religion. The belief that our senses are accurate and that our minds correctly interpret those senses, for the most part, is something of a leap of faith, although not a large one for most people.

If religion is a systematic world view that explains the universe from the context of the people and their gods, then the god of science is the human senses. Either way...

It could be taken as truth to say that Science is a religion. It can not be said that religion is a science. The same can be said of the square and the rectangle.
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Old 08-13-2009, 04:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

There are religions founded around science but they are hard to understand since so much of them contradicts itself. the online definition of religion is

The outwardact or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, fear, or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life; a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; as, ethical religions; monotheistic religions; natural religion; revealed religion; the religion of the Jews; the religion of idol worshipers.

Religion isnt about system. Thats why there are so many variants.

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Old 08-13-2009, 05:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

All of that may be so, but if I understand correctly, what he references is that the first religious beliefs appear to have been a means to understand the workings of the world in the same manner that science is now used. In that way science began as a religion evolved for the purpose of understanding what did not have another explaination. Ex: Some ancient peoples believed that lightening and thunder were the results of a god slaming his hands together, this became the god of storms.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:08 AM   #14
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

I wasn't saying that religion is founded in science but that the scientific system and all it's derivatives are are a form of religion.
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Science has its place in the world. It helps us understand life and all around us. Science and religion go hand in hand just as one can say magic and science go hand in hand. Science just gives a deeper meaning to things in nature. It doesn't take away it's religious or spiritual meaning. There are religious sciences. It is a career path offered at my college. It teaches science as science while looking at the religious connotations and ramifications, to help people find their balance. Science is like research. It isn't a religion on its own, but it can be used to support or tear down questions.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryota View Post
Science has its place in the world. It helps us understand life and all around us. Science and religion go hand in hand just as one can say magic and science go hand in hand. Science just gives a deeper meaning to things in nature. It doesn't take away it's religious or spiritual meaning. There are religious sciences. It is a career path offered at my college. It teaches science as science while looking at the religious connotations and ramifications, to help people find their balance. Science is like research. It isn't a religion on its own, but it can be used to support or tear down questions.
I would have love to see you say that back in 1350s "BLASPHEMY!!! BURN THE WITCH!" yeah religion makes sense. Religion is still this "Believe in it even if you have never seen it, felt it, heard it, touched it, talked to it, and understand it. That is the way it's suppose to be"

um and i think muslim religion has the most followers.
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Old 08-13-2009, 02:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

hmmm i have something try thr bible or something
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: Controversy AHEAD!!!!

A recent cencus shows these numbers as the largest religions in the world. This does not single out subcatagories such as Catholics, Protestants, Karaites, Wiccans, Shiites, etc... This list accounts for the religions of over 98% of the world's population. Well, Shucks.. I am number 12.

Christianity: 2.1 billion people
Islam/Muslim: 1.5 billion people
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion people
Hinduism: 900 million people
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million people
Buddhism: 376 million people
primal-indigenous: 300 million people
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million people
Sikhism: 23 million people
Juche: 19 million people
Spiritism: 15.7 million people
Judaism: 15 million people
Baha'i: 7 million people
Jainism: 4.2 million people
Shinto: 4 million people
Cao Dai: 4 million people
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million people
Tenrikyo: 2 million people
Neo-Paganism: 1 million people
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand people
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand people
Scientology: 500 thousand people

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