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Old 05-10-2013, 05:04 AM   #21
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant View Post
I will agree that Itachi wins because of feats.

But the way that the first post in this thread is written, it seems like you can use hype as well.

It says who do you think would win and to give a reasonable explanation. Usually, using only feats is not a reasonable thing to do.

So I believe hype could be used in this debate as well.

Itachi does have many powers but that alone is not enough to win.



Well, considering that two of them were the first in their clan to awaken Mangekyo Sharingan, I'd say Izuna was very strong. And also Izuna was claimed to be second while Madara was the first. Just like Hashirama was the first in their clan and Tobirama was the second.

And the reason Izuna died was Tobirama.

So, it wasn''t just an ordinary battle!!!



I am not sure what you are trying to say. Tobirama did show to be very smart and skilled.



But Naruto at that point wasn't still Jonin level. And even if he was his defense against Genjutsu is still notably weaker than those of skilled and analytical Shinobi.

I am not sure how much stronger his Genjutsu would be if he was a real person.



Well, Space time matters since it can be used in more than one way!!!



In the first post it says that Itachi can't use full Susanoo, so I am not sure whether he can use all those powers!!!



But Itachi can't use full Susanoo.

And these are high level Jutsu, considering that he used Jutsu with a single Handseal which usually requires over 40 Handseals!!!
1st and second? I think that only came after the village was created(aka hokages) their clans had no first and seconds.

Just clan leaders which were madara and hashirama.

Im not saying that he dumb im simply saying that tactical genius might be exaggerating it a bit.

Naruto rankwise was genin so that doesnt really matter. Powerwise he was definitely jonin level. Being able to spam A-rank techniques like the rasengan and kage bunshin(even experienced jonin only can create like 2 at most) puts far above your avarage jonin.

Plus jiraiya(kage level) already taught him specificcally how to be escape genjutsu.

narutos/itachis second encounter. When itachi shoved a crow in narutos mouth naruto was powerless.

Not if the character has the reaction feats to keep up with it.

We were talking about a hypothetical battle hiruzen vs itachi. Not this one. Regardless even with the restrictions in this thread amaterasu/tsukuyomi would end hiruzen.

From what we have seen from tobiramas water style it still isnt as impressive as users like mei or kisame hype or not.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:29 AM   #22
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

By hype Tobirama can hold his own.. He was portrayed to be superior to Izuna who also had MS like Maddy..

But by feats Itachi stomps Tobi into the ground
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:24 AM   #23
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

Madara > Izuna > Itachi - That's a guess.. so..
Madara > Tobirama > Izuna > Itachi? that's my take on things anyway.
Given the next few manga chapters hopefully we will have more Tobirama feats soon and I'm willing to guess he will soon beat Itachi on feats.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

Tobirama put the whole clan in a corner and told them not to move. They didn't even fight back. Tobirama killed the number two strongest in the clan. Even without panel feats some things don't need to be confirmed. Just like rikudo for an example.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

I do agree with most people that Itachi wins for having superior feats, but when you think about it, Tobirama wasn't just some knock off they found on the streets, he had little feats, but he was also very smart and his jutsu where good enough to take down Izuna.....Anyway, thats just my opinion I just wanted to know what other people thought. I really like the way you guys are explaining though!
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:16 PM   #26
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Tobirama put the whole clan in a corner and told them not to move. They didn't even fight back. Tobirama killed the number two strongest in the clan. Even without panel feats some things don't need to be confirmed. Just like rikudo for an example.
Not exactly true.. The uchiha for the most part wanted peace.. they thought they were being rewarded by becoming the police force. You saw how they rejected Madara's plans.. they didnt plan on fighting back until years later.

He dealt with Izuna, yeah, but Itachi seems to be the most talented genjutsu user aside from Shisui.. and his susano'o is on a different level than the other basic susano'o
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:46 PM   #27
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Not exactly true.. The uchiha for the most part wanted peace.. they thought they were being rewarded by becoming the police force. You saw how they rejected Madara's plans.. they didnt plan on fighting back until years later.

He dealt with Izuna, yeah, but Itachi seems to be the most talented genjutsu user aside from Shisui.. and his susano'o is on a different level than the other basic susano'o
What do you mean by saying basic Susanoo?!!
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

Why did this reach 2 pgs?

We all know that tonirama's is near featless!

Way to go he severely wounded an uchiha

But itachi is no normal uchiha member. Unlike izuna itachi has susanoo and Amaterasu and lot of other special skills

Feat wise-itachi stomps
Hype wise/ itachi wins with difficulty
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Not exactly true.. The uchiha for the most part wanted peace.. they thought they were being rewarded by becoming the police force. You saw how they rejected Madara's plans.. they didn't plan on fighting back until years later.

He dealt with Izuna, yeah, but Itachi seems to be the most talented genjutsu user aside from Shisui.. and his susano'o is on a different level than the other basic susano'o
There was just as many who wanted war instead of peace. Madara had followers in the camp but for the most part they did nothing. One of those reasons was they weren't strong enough to do anything.

Not really everything Itachi knows is just knowledge passed on from Madara's ,and Izuna's time period. His Tsukiyomi being broken by Sasuke tells you what a high level skill sharigan user can do. Hell Danzo was rejecting ms with basic sharigan. Itachi was just the most talented Uchiha during his time period. That is not necessarily true either. Obito helped him slaughter them ,and Shisui could have been stronger. The ones from Madara's time period used the sharigan as a way of life everyday just to survive.

As for Susanoo the only person susanoo he is superior to is Sasuke's. That is not even necessarily the case anymore considering we haven't seen it's current form. Madara's is several times more powerful. Nothing says it's on another level from other Uchiha's. Izuna was to Madara like Sasuke is too Itachi. That means he would be well versed in his brothers techniques. Madara is the reason Itachi knows his techniques. So reason tells you that Izuna would have been just as much knowledge.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Tobirama put the whole clan in a corner and told them not to move.
That was because he was hokage. It was like a prinicpal/teacher telling the student what to do
They didn't even fight back.
They did not want civil war and they wanted to keep the peace in the village
Tobirama killed the number two strongest in the clan.
way to go you killed someone with all hype and no feats. Izuna is nothing compared to Itachi with feats and hype galor
Even without panel feats some things don't need to be confirmed. Just like rikudo for an example.
Dont get power and the title of hokage confused
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:20 PM   #31
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

Already explained all that so good job failing.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

Your telling me I missed your BS...PHEW thanks
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:27 PM   #34
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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There was just as many who wanted war instead of peace.
^proof of this "statement"?^
Madara had followers in the camp but for the most part they did nothing.
That was after/during Tobirama was being a royal d**k to the Uchiha. As Oro said Tobirama's actions caused the Madara sympitzers
One of those reasons was they weren't strong enough to do anything.
^proof of this statment?^
If they were willing to go against Hiurzen and the village then they would be willing to go against Tobirama and the village.

Not really everything Itachi knows is just knowledge passed on from Madara's ,and Izuna's time period. His Tsukiyomi being broken by Sasuke tells you what a high level skill sharigan user can do.
Itachi was not going all out on Saksue plus Itachi was sick and going blind.
Hell Danzo was rejecting ms with basic sharigan.
Saskue also used regular sharigan on Danzo
Itachi was just the most talented Uchiha during his time period. That is not necessarily true either.
yes it is because we have more proof of Itachi's hype AND feats to back it up. Rather with Izuna we barely have hype
Obito helped him slaughter them ,and Shisui could have been stronger.
Shishi was also mostly hype and his main feat was koto
The ones from Madara's time period used the sharigan as a way of life everyday just to survive.
The generations surpasses the last

As for Susanoo the only person susanoo he is superior to is Sasuke's. That is not even necessarily the case anymore considering we haven't seen it's current form. Madara's is several times more powerful. Nothing says it's on another level from other Uchiha's. Izuna was to Madara like Sasuke is too Itachi. That means he would be well versed in his brothers techniques. Madara is the reason Itachi knows his techniques. So reason tells you that Izuna would have been just as much knowledge.
^powersclaing/assumptions^
Since most people dont have time or will to put up with your BS I will...once again
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:42 PM   #35
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

and here comes the BS
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:50 PM   #37
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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I have tried to pay people to talk to me. But they usually just give me refunds. The only person who listen to me is my uncle. He was fun before they took him away. I enjoyed the special hugs he gave me.
I feel for you bro but TMI
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

^^That was TOO funny
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:16 AM   #39
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

outside of Jinchurike, I don't know who could break tsukuyomi. Sasuke broke it, but Itachi needed it broken to get Oro out. So Sasuke doesn't get the credit free and clear.

Senje hype/feat? gives Tobirama elite physical ability. We don't know his speed or strength though.

Pure intelligence, both had hokage vision as a child. Both got this rep in the last 10 chapters.

for genious level jutsu use, Tobirama has invented jutsu, and he uses one hand signs. One hand signs mean his control is pretty ridiculous. I would put that above Itachi's dextrous, speed seals

In the end, even if Tobirama can break the genjutsu of other Uchiha.,...

Other Uchiha aren't Itachi. For now, Itachi wins. Straight genjutsu.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:01 AM   #40
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Default Re: Itachi vs Tobirama

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Why did this reach 2 pgs?

We all know that tonirama's is near featless!

Way to go he severely wounded an uchiha

But itachi is no normal uchiha member. Unlike izuna itachi has susanoo and Amaterasu and lot of other special skills

Feat wise-itachi stomps
Hype wise/ itachi wins with difficulty
Lol.

No. He hasn't had much screen time. Tobirama has more than enough feats.

Yes, way to go. The second strongest Uchiha in the clan.

...Neither is Izuna? whoah.. you are saying is Itachi is superior to Izuna? That is very debatable and I'm sure most people would go with Izuna.

You know what.. Itachi has less feats than Tobirama. Screen time is not equivalent to feats. Itachi did what? Massacred his whole clan with help, which Izuna could have done. What has Itachi ever done that Izuna couldn't? On the other hand, Tobirama has done a lot for his village and has a lot of power scaled feats.
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