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Old 04-18-2013, 11:51 PM   #1
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Default How much do you think Naruto (the story) has changed?

There are many who say Part 1 and Part 2 are different from each other.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

If yes what is it you think that has changed? Is it for better or worse?

If no what keeps it from being different? And should it be different?

What about early Part 1 vs late Part 1?

Or early Part 2 vs late Part 2?

It may just be me but Kishimoto seems to be getting a little bit
preachy with the whole "war is bad and it hurts children especially"
message. But do you think Kishimoto had this mind when he made
chapter 1? Do you think Kishimoto had thought back then to create
a political message or do you think that was something that
was produced from the story's plot?

Now we've had war is bad pretty much since the Pain arc at the very least. But is this something that Kishi just thought of in Part 2 or do you think he was thinking of this stuff in Part 1 but just wasn't able to
put it in Part 1 because it was too heavy handed to put in just yet.

How much of Part 2 do you think Kishi had thought of during Part 1?

Do you think the way Naruto characters ended up was something predetermined or was it a natural evolution or a mixture of both?

Do you like what Naruto has been before?
Do you like what it is now whether it has changed or not?
Do you like where it will eventually go?

Just trying to encourage some discussion here.
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: How much do you think Naruto (the story) has changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
There are many who say Part 1 and Part 2 are different from each other.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

If yes what is it you think that has changed? Is it for better or worse?

If no what keeps it from being different? And should it be different?

What about early Part 1 vs late Part 1?

Or early Part 2 vs late Part 2?

It may just be me but Kishimoto seems to be getting a little bit
preachy with the whole "war is bad and it hurts children especially"
message. But do you think Kishimoto had this mind when he made
chapter 1? Do you think Kishimoto had thought back then to create
a political message or do you think that was something that
was produced from the story's plot?

Now we've had war is bad pretty much since the Pain arc at the very least. But is this something that Kishi just thought of in Part 2 or do you think he was thinking of this stuff in Part 1 but just wasn't able to
put it in Part 1 because it was too heavy handed to put in just yet.

How much of Part 2 do you think Kishi had thought of during Part 1?

Do you think the way Naruto characters ended up was something predetermined or was it a natural evolution or a mixture of both?

Do you like what Naruto has been before?
Do you like what it is now whether it has changed or not?
Do you like where it will eventually go?

Just trying to encourage some discussion here.
Man! i u these days... these questions are the ultimate things to be discussed.... but since I'm super busy, i'll be back to carefully answer these questions...




@Harlequin Hey fool, u've become a virus...Shut up!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: How much do you think Naruto (the story) has changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsticky005 View Post
There are many who say Part 1 and Part 2 are different from each other.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
I agree with this statement... part I is indeed different from Part II.


Quote:
If yes what is it you think that has changed? Is it for better or worse?
Can't say if it's better or worse... But part II is great in its own.
Things that changed:
i. Though the Storyline is the same (ie. continuous) the plot and style of writing is NOT the same.
ii. Part II has more Improvision whereas Part I is solidly pre-conceived
iii. Part II is monumental whereas Part I is more condensed and simplified
iv. In Part I the author sees the end from the beginning without missing the interim. In Part II the beginning and End are known alright but the interim is left open ended for several possibilities.


If no what keeps it from being different? And should it be different?

It should be different Indeed, and that's one of the reasons why even after watching or reading part two for a while, ppl go back to see certain events in part I out of nostalgia...



What about early Part 1 vs late Part 1?

EP I is more descriptive, an introduction to many possibilities/ capacity of Ninja in the Narutoverse - Chunnin Exams was the climax it...
LP I Had gotten us settled on the anticipation of haxness which could not be introduced earlier. Characters had already been developed and the series was ready to jet into ridiculous creativity...afterall, we'd already accepted talking toads without any complaint...


Or early Part 2 vs late Part 2?

EP II Started out slowly but dark with Akatsuki on the move...One of our favorite characters Gaara being captured, but it still contained a lot of the flavors from the Part I. It was just an improved version in terms of strength and ability. There we still those moments where the ninjas stood infront of Tsunade to receive a mission... We saw a built up in the Plot regarding Naruto and his Bijuu when he went Four tails against Oro, giving the impression and anticipation of greater number of tails...

LP II begun immediately after Pain's Arc... A sudden chaos with all the other villages and characters added within a short moment was a bigger diversion from the Naruto flavor we had from Part I. It became more difficult to maintain a composed plot. Things begun to spread out more and the storyline became more complex... It was necessary but not cleanly handled.

It may just be me but Kishimoto seems to be getting a little bit
preachy with the whole "war is bad and it hurts children especially"
message. But do you think Kishimoto had this mind when he made
chapter 1? Do you think Kishimoto had thought back then to create
a political message or do you think that was something that
was produced from the story's plot?

I think this was something produced from the Story's plot. I doubt he intended these political message... It has become more global now that personal... In part I it was a personal preacher's message about hardwork and not giving up... I believe a lot has changed too since his own personal life had changed a lot. Example: he had not intended to do that Minato and Kushina part of loving their son... This idea came later due to the love he himself feels for his children...


Now we've had war is bad pretty much since the Pain arc at the very least. But is this something that Kishi just thought of in Part 2 or do you think he was thinking of this stuff in Part 1 but just wasn't able to
put it in Part 1 because it was too heavy handed to put in just yet.

Due to the mention of shinobi world war even in part 1, it was clear that the manga would end in a war. This thought is well preconceived if not within part I, then at least from the beginning of Part II...afterall, akatsuki's intro was a means to a coming war...

If Naruto had succeeded to bring sasuke back in part I, i would have believe part I was ended in kishi's mind and that he re-conceived part II all together, but the fact that Naruto failed was a good hint that He had conceived the coming events of Part II way before hand.


How much of Part 2 do you think Kishi had thought of during Part 1?

Kishi had thought about 60% at least...
- Naruto and Sasuke becoming Enemies
- The Truth about Itachi
- Other Jinchuriki besides Naruto & Gaara...if 1 and 9 are revealed, it's automatic that every other number in between would be shown
- Mangekou/ Eternal Mangekyou for Sasuke
-Naruto's control of Kuubi
- Edo Tensei of Strong Shinobi
-Re-appearance of Madara Uchiha (this is not an afterthought but was hinted before chp 20)
- So many more...


AFTERTHOUGHTS would be something like Killer Bee as Naruto's sensei, Pain, Rikoudo Sennin, Neji's death lol..


Do you think the way Naruto characters ended up was something predetermined or was it a natural evolution or a mixture of both?

It's a mixture of both but it still leans more towards evolution... I doubt kishi knew he wouldn't have the time/opportunity to develop Neji's character in Part I. He should have been closer to Naruto and sasuke in strength...Due to regret, he kills him off to rid himself of guilt...just kidding...

Do you like what Naruto has been before?
I loved what Naruto was before...It was a new Idea... An idea that makes the embarrassing mention of Ninja cool... It was very constructive with consistency in rhythm and build up.... So i like it.

Do you like what it is now whether it has changed or not?
I like the fact that it's different now... I would have gotten bored if it was the same as Part I. It's not as constructive, it's chaotic at some points, flimsy tie of knots, easy/ lousy resolves to mysteries BUT, I applaud the monumentality of it. It's a hard thing to do and for kishi to keep it up... I applaud him. I just started liking this other anime, but since i knew the author is talented but lazy and goes on haitus too frequently, i would not read the manga... I respect Kishi for handling it all and proving a chapter every week for us.


Do you like where it will eventually go?
Kishi is almost done bringing all those complexities of plot into focus. That was the most difficult portion...(he said it himself that it would be a struggle).. But now, since it's more focused, I have a more positive anticipation of a an explosive end than even part I. This is the Highlight of the Entire Naruto Manga. Kishi didn't have to take a break this week, but for a great chapter, he would this time around. He's taking his manga very seriously once again....



Just trying to encourage some discussion here.[/QUOTE]

This should encourage lots of discussion indeed...
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Last edited by kalmeast; 04-19-2013 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: How much do you think Naruto (the story) has changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
Derp!
Care to elaborate?
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: How much do you think Naruto (the story) has changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmeast View Post
I agree with this statement... part I is indeed different from Part II.




Can't say if it's better or worse... But part II is great in its own.
Things that changed:
i. Though the Storyline is the same (ie. continuous) the plot and style of writing is NOT the same.
ii. Part II has more Improvision whereas Part I is solidly pre-conceived
iii. Part II is monumental whereas Part I is more condensed and simplified
iv. In Part I the author sees the end from the beginning without missing the interim. In Part II the beginning and End are known alright but the interim is left open ended for several possibilities.


If no what keeps it from being different? And should it be different?

It should be different Indeed, and that's one of the reasons why even after watching or reading part two for a while, ppl go back to see certain events in part I out of nostalgia...



What about early Part 1 vs late Part 1?

EP I is more descriptive, an introduction to many possibilities/ capacity of Ninja in the Narutoverse - Chunnin Exams was the climax it...
LP I Had gotten us settled on the anticipation of haxness which could not be introduced earlier. Characters had already been developed and the series was ready to jet into ridiculous creativity...afterall, we'd already accepted talking toads without any complaint...


Or early Part 2 vs late Part 2?

EP II Started out slowly but dark with Akatsuki on the move...One of our favorite characters Gaara being captured, but it still contained a lot of the flavors from the Part I. It was just an improved version in terms of strength and ability. There we still those moments where the ninjas stood infront of Tsunade to receive a mission... We saw a built up in the Plot regarding Naruto and his Bijuu when he went Four tails against Oro, giving the impression and anticipation of greater number of tails...

LP II begun immediately after Pain's Arc... A sudden chaos with all the other villages and characters added within a short moment was a bigger diversion from the Naruto flavor we had from Part I. It became more difficult to maintain a composed plot. Things begun to spread out more and the storyline became more complex... It was necessary but not cleanly handled.

It may just be me but Kishimoto seems to be getting a little bit
preachy with the whole "war is bad and it hurts children especially"
message. But do you think Kishimoto had this mind when he made
chapter 1? Do you think Kishimoto had thought back then to create
a political message or do you think that was something that
was produced from the story's plot?

I think this was something produced from the Story's plot. I doubt he intended these political message... It has become more global now that personal... In part I it was a personal preacher's message about hardwork and not giving up... I believe a lot has changed too since his own personal life had changed a lot. Example: he had not intended to do that Minato and Kushina part of loving their son... This idea came later due to the love he himself feels for his children...


Now we've had war is bad pretty much since the Pain arc at the very least. But is this something that Kishi just thought of in Part 2 or do you think he was thinking of this stuff in Part 1 but just wasn't able to
put it in Part 1 because it was too heavy handed to put in just yet.

Due to the mention of shinobi world war even in part 1, it was clear that the manga would end in a war. This thought is well preconceived if not within part I, then at least from the beginning of Part II...afterall, akatsuki's intro was a means to a coming war...

If Naruto had succeeded to bring sasuke back in part I, i would have believe part I was ended in kishi's mind and that he re-conceived part II all together, but the fact that Naruto failed was a good hint that He had conceived the coming events of Part II way before hand.


How much of Part 2 do you think Kishi had thought of during Part 1?

Kishi had thought about 60% at least...
- Naruto and Sasuke becoming Enemies
- The Truth about Itachi
- Other Jinchuriki besides Naruto & Gaara...if 1 and 9 are revealed, it's automatic that every other number in between would be shown
- Mangekou/ Eternal Mangekyou for Sasuke
-Naruto's control of Kuubi
- Edo Tensei of Strong Shinobi
-Re-appearance of Madara Uchiha (this is not an afterthought but was hinted before chp 20)
- So many more...


AFTERTHOUGHTS would be something like Killer Bee as Naruto's sensei, Pain, Rikoudo Sennin, Neji's death lol..


Do you think the way Naruto characters ended up was something predetermined or was it a natural evolution or a mixture of both?

It's a mixture of both but it still leans more towards evolution... I doubt kishi knew he wouldn't have the time/opportunity to develop Neji's character in Part I. He should have been closer to Naruto and sasuke in strength...Due to regret, he kills him off to rid himself of guilt...just kidding...

Do you like what Naruto has been before?
I loved what Naruto was before...It was a new Idea... An idea that makes the embarrassing mention of Ninja cool... It was very constructive with consistency in rhythm and build up.... So i like it.

Do you like what it is now whether it has changed or not?
I like the fact that it's different now... I would have gotten bored if it was the same as Part I. It's not as constructive, it's chaotic at some points, flimsy tie of knots, easy/ lousy resolves to mysteries BUT, I applaud the monumentality of it. It's a hard thing to do and for kishi to keep it up... I applaud him. I just started liking this other anime, but since i knew the author is talented but lazy and goes on haitus too frequently, i would not read the manga... I respect Kishi for handling it all and proving a chapter every week for us.


Do you like where it will eventually go?
Kishi is almost done bringing all those complexities of plot into focus. That was the most difficult portion...(he said it himself that it would be a struggle).. But now, since it's more focused, I have a more positive anticipation of a an explosive end than even part I. This is the Highlight of the Entire Naruto Manga. Kishi didn't have to take a break this week, but for a great chapter, he would this time around. He's taking his manga very seriously once again....



Just trying to encourage some discussion here.
This should encourage lots of discussion indeed...
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the response.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: How much do you think Naruto (the story) has changed?

Also Part II cleared out some understanding for me personally... A real TRUTH that I wonder if Kishi is aware of...

In Part I naruto always worked hard for whatever he wanted... Strength, People, Power, Recognition... He did it truth hardwork and determination...

In Mid to Late Current Part II, Naruto isn't working so hard for everything anymore...He's just being Entrusted with Gifts from others...

and that is the reality...Hardworking/determined people don't go through their entire life doing hardwork... after a while when their hardwork begins to pay off, Ppl start entrusting them with valuable things... Better to entrust something of Value to a hardworking person than just some Talented Person...

I see this a lot in real life and that's why I like Part II a lot.. Even now, he's going to be giving a gift from Minato again... He's past the point where he has to prove himself now... he did enough of that already...

And when ppl are upset about this whole child of Prophecy thing, it makes me laugh about their misunderstanding of Prophecy... The prophecy didn't force naruto be what he is...It's his decisions that forced the prophecy to be directed upon him...
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