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Old 04-03-2013, 09:31 AM   #21
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Maybe its like that dead body jutsu that Kabuto used when he had a little fight with Kakashi
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfoxx View Post
when he stole hashi dna it started to heal him
very likely...but question is how did he do that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
Complete Genjutsu or Clone-This also can't be the case as it's confirmed in the Obito flashback that Madara sustained a chest wound during the battle and that's where he implanted Hashirama's cells.
That's right. Madara talks about his wound and looks at his chest where Hashirama stabbed him.

I'd say Madara used some sort of Genjutsu since Kishi showed that EMS specifically; but it was only able to mess Hashirama's perception slightly...as he got the wound from the stab. Which would mean that they stood even till the end...if Madara fell for the wood clone then Hashi also fell for the Genjutsu

There is also the possibility that Madara 'stole' Hashirama's cells during the course of the battle and had prepared himself for this. So after he was stabbed he healed himself somehow (am I really saying this.....).

Another point, Madara already had that plan about unifying Uchiha and Senju power...from his interpretation of the stone tablet...so he must have gone into the battle with Hashirama with some sort of plan to get his cells...infact that cld've been his priority and not winning the battle..

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Old 04-03-2013, 12:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

The question I have about genjutsu, when would he have put it on Hashi? During the battle? Not at the dual at the stream, there was either no Sharingan or it was Hashi wood clone.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

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Originally Posted by DrKage View Post
The question I have about genjutsu, when would he have put it on Hashi? During the battle? Not at the dual at the stream, there was either no Sharingan or it was Hashi wood clone.
Right when Hashi hopped down to fight Madara. It happens at the panel where they show Madara's EMS. The stream part is after they've been fighting for a while longer as evidenced by their ragged appearance and the fact that they're missing parts of their armor.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

I think I agree that Madara, made a last minuet genjutsu on hashirama, even though it does seem unlikely.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

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Originally Posted by Sagepain View Post
^ I thought Izanagi was a Genjutsu cast on the user not the opponent. It would work regardless.

Still he would lose access to one of his Sharingan and we know that didin't happen since he awakened 2 Rinnegan eyes.
izanagi is, the event happens but to the user, it is just a dream. So if he used it he would stay dead on the ground (In hashi's eyes) for an indiscriminate amount of time. Danzo's limit was 1 minute per eye?
Being a real uchiha, it would be longer I would guess.
Tobi collects uchiha eyes, that tradition had to start somewhere didn't it?
Idk.

Since his wood clone wasn't detected, think Hashirama fights with wood clone til it dies?
Follow me on this.
Madara knows hashi uses wood clones.
Argue he can't get cells from a clone (no proof but hold on)
So he kills clone and takes stab to gain cells.
__________________________ something.
Lays down and fiegns death or izanagi until hashi leaves. But it's Madara's body, why would hashirama just leave it? I feel he would've taken it, buried it or done something
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Am I the only one who thinks that Hashirama's last move was kinda low?
I understand that he'd do anything to save the village, even put his own pride aside.
But, I could never stab someone from the back, not even my worst enemy.
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Eh, they're ninjas. Backstabs up until this point have been countered by substitutions, but it kind of spoke volumes about Hashirama's feelings. The backstab is similar to what his statement is "Cannot forgive" and feels like a punishment move
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that Hashirama's last move was kinda low?
I understand that he'd do anything to save the village, even put his own pride aside.
But, I could never stab someone from the back, not even my worst enemy.
Yeah I can understand why he did it but it seem a little out of character from what we know of him didn't it? I guess that's what it took to establish the fact that he is leader and will protect the village at any cost though,

But what I want to know is what happened to nobody being able to hit Madara from behind?
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

I'm pretty that hashirama had to kill Madara by any means necessary to protect the whole peaceful village he built beginning with warring clans even if it was to catch him by surprise in order to protect what the village rather than keeping his pride and leaving a chance for the village to be destroyed by Madara
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:53 PM   #31
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that Hashirama's last move was kinda low?
I understand that he'd do anything to save the village, even put his own pride aside.
But, I could never stab someone from the back, not even my worst enemy.
It was a difficult decision for him; look at his pained face expression just before he did that. It was kinda like last resort. He let the rules slide for the greater good and to save many lives....and that was why his answer was that a shinobi is the one who endures.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:45 PM   #32
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeoKyn View Post
Izanagi?
Izanagi is IMPOSSIBLE because his two EMS became RInnegan...If he used Izanagi, then one eye at least would have been sealed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfoxx View Post
when he stole hashi dna it started to heal him
Could be Hashi's dna but isn't it a stretch to think he found a mechanism right there and there to insert Hashi's dna... we'll find out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ny2fl View Post
it seems like hashis dna allows him to effect the sharingan and other techs in alot of ways, similar to how he was able to break free of oros control on edo tensai.

i think that hashi never let madara know that he could create a clone that even the sharingan couldnt see for an emergency situation like this. with naruto also having 9tails and sage mode maybe one of these forms can also create a clone that the sharingan cant detect as real/fake.

OR that was madaras plan all along and he pretended to be fooled so that he could set this moons eye plan into effect. he somehow got some of hashis dna on the final slice and then held onto it. if hashi thought madara was dead there would be no one to stop the plan.....which has basically come true as we see with tobi and this war
Perhaps madara fooled him in the end... But I don't think Madara's sharingan cannot detect clones. He detected Naruto's clone right away when he came to join obito... he said, "where's the real one"... And if he said Only he could detect Hashirama's mokouton clone, then he could not have missed that in their last battle...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBlade View Post
It makes me wonder, since they were down and underground. If at that point he was able to summon out the Gedo? perhaps that was what saved him? though this entire fight completely discounts the "I got the Rinnegan before I died" idea, because he would have needed the Rinnegan to summon the Gedo.

I also don't think it would have been Izanage because he would have cast that at the clone, not really being effective against Hashirama himself. *sigh* However! And I say this because it might be where the whole "moons eye plan" came from, what if he was able to cast a genjutsu against the moon in a limited area? we saw small image of the moon, so perhaps it wasn't a genjutsu cast AT Hashirama, but at the entire area using the full moon to reflect it down?
It's impossible for Madara to have summoned the Gedo mazo at that point...Only those with Rinnegan can summon it and only those with Hashi's Mokouton DNA and rinnegan can control Gedo and Madara didn't have either of those at that point...

Izanagi is out of the question too as i explained above but that other thought about casting genjutsu on the moon to affect the whole area including the real Hashirama is a brilliant and possible idea...They did show the moon afterall.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagepain View Post
^ I thought Izanagi was a Genjutsu cast on the user not the opponent. It would work regardless.

Still he would lose access to one of his Sharingan and we know that didin't happen since he awakened 2 Rinnegan eyes.
Oh yea...this here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haku Uchiha View Post
I think Madara used his genjustu on a reflection on something and then just took some dna while Hashirama was under his genjustu
Since Hashirama made the statement that "madara continually attacked the leaf, that inferred that, he came back to fight hashi more than once and during those time, he could have gained some dna already...If not, he got plenty of it during this final battle...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakashi Hatake_Yamato View Post
hm. His eye was shown previously beige his death.
I think it would be genjutsu as well
Yep...that's my thought exactly...but if he used a genjutsu, it would have been used on the clone so how did the original get affected... afterall, itachi's tsukuyomi didn't work on Kakshi's clone right...although the clone was caught, the original wasn't... Or wait...

whenever, the clone *puffed*, it's experience returns to the original...so when Hashi's clone got caught, is it possible that when it died and turned into wood, the genjutsu was experienced by the original that instant? hmm...that's highly possible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
I thought it was just a well timed clone?

Starting on page 11 Madara was too tired to activate the sharigan. But by that time it was already a clone

So off panel during the fight HASHIRAMA slipped a clone in their whole madra was not looking or his vision was obscure
The fact that we saw madara's EMS activated before the final clash, does suggest that that genjutsu was cast at that time before Hashi sliced Madara so even if the EMS was deactivated right before they run against each other, the genjutsu was still already cast... correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phacade View Post
I can easily see a flashback scene where Hashirama walks away, leaving Madara's corpse there. A bird is heard overheard and we see the sun has changed position, indicating time has past. Madara does the whole gasping thing and wakes up with Rinnigan eyes, looking down and notices that Hashirama's clone has seeped into his chest wound...
That sir...would be a fantastic revelation... oh my..i would be suspicious of Hashirama anyhow, that he left his wood clone there to give Madara a 1% chance of survival lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellyDump View Post
Perhaps there is a new secret technique of the EMS, more improved than izanagi, that explains how Madara survived the attack that kishi will reveal in another chapter?
Oh yes...that fourth power is a certainty...Madara has it but for some reason Kishi is keeping it a secret... Sasuke has that too for sure...

chp 386 pg 9, itachi said "But that was only half of the story... The transplanted eye also gave birth to a completely new eye technique."

And Susanoo isn't this completely new eye technique itachi was referring to... as many think... if itachi with MS already has Susanoo, it's unlikely he'd speak of EMS in that manner...he clearly suggested this new eye technique completed the other half of the story, that is (Not going blind). By conclusion we know Susanoo doesn't complete the half story of "not going blind"...voila!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
Alright guys, there are a couple of theories we can throw out right away:
Izanagi-It seals at least one eye and Madara had both after the fight.
Complete Genjutsu or Clone-This also can't be the case as it's confirmed in the Obito flashback that Madara sustained a chest wound during the battle and that's where he implanted Hashirama's cells.

My theory: It seems pretty obvious that Madara used some type of genjutsu, due to the panel showing just Madara's mangekyou. During the Kabuto fight Kishi did the same thing to signify the beginning of Itachi's Izanami. I think that Madara used a genjutsu similar to the one Sasuke used on Danzo that altered Hashirama's perceptions. So he did stab Madara, but it wasn't a fatal blow like he thought it was. Hashirama could've believed he stabbed Madara through the heart due to the genjutsu, but really just pierced a lung or something.
Most precisely argued... I agree


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKage View Post
I could see something along kalmeast ideas. Madara did say the battle wasn't the end, just a step in the long plan. Maybe Madara was something else that didn't dissipate, so a wood clone killed a faux-Madara so everyone would think he's dead.
you're suggesting a fake madara...it's a good idea only that, the real madara sustained a wound around the same area the "faux Madara" would have been stricken? that's why it's hard to believe it was some sort of "fake"...

otherwise, enlighten me


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectual View Post
Maybe its like that dead body jutsu that Kabuto used when he had a little fight with Kakashi
This too is an innovative idea only that, to use that jutsu, you've need a dead body around to make the substitute...It didn't seem that anyone was near them... and it's unlikely Madara was carrying a corpse around during the entire fight...what u think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fighting_dreamer View Post


very likely...but question is how did he do that...



That's right. Madara talks about his wound and looks at his chest where Hashirama stabbed him.

I'd say Madara used some sort of Genjutsu since Kishi showed that EMS specifically; but it was only able to mess Hashirama's perception slightly...as he got the wound from the stab. Which would mean that they stood even till the end...if Madara fell for the wood clone then Hashi also fell for the Genjutsu

There is also the possibility that Madara 'stole' Hashirama's cells during the course of the battle and had prepared himself for this. So after he was stabbed he healed himself somehow (am I really saying this.....).

Another point, Madara already had that plan about unifying Uchiha and Senju power...from his interpretation of the stone tablet...so he must have gone into the battle with Hashirama with some sort of plan to get his cells...infact that cld've been his priority and not winning the battle..

I agree with all your comments...Tobi did say afterall that, when the world thought hashi had won, he was the true victor...he went into that battle more planned...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that Hashirama's last move was kinda low?
I understand that he'd do anything to save the village, even put his own pride aside.
But, I could never stab someone from the back, not even my worst enemy.
Not at all...Hashirama's last move showed his supremacy over madara even more... remember kakashi's lectures to naruto? "do not let your enemy get behind you"...
this is something all ninjas know... Only a more adept shinobi would be able to get behind his enemy... This is ninja not samurai...

So madara letting a ninja get behind him showed just how skilled and superior hashirama really was... if anything is madara who'd be ashamed of getting stabbed in the back....so let's think about it in these terms of shinobi in narutoverse...
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:48 PM   #33
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

What if a Proto type Zetsu was there with his DNA. Hadara got Hashi and Zetsu fixes him as they use his DNA.

Or Maybe Madara's eyes are time reversal.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:57 PM   #34
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

WAIT! I Think I know how Madara did it... This could be it...

He saw through Hashirama's clone so he was confident that since clones were not as strong as the original, he'd be able to defeat the clone... So what he did then was cast a genjutsu on the clone to alter it's perception, then he deactivated the EMS as though through fatique... So when he struck Hashirama's clone down and it dissipated into wood, it's genjutsu experience returned to the original. But The original hashirama didn't notice because the madara standing before him deactivated his Sharingan so hashi didn't expect a genjutsu at the moment... Thus his perception was changed...

If you agree with this deduction, Thumbs up!!!
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:09 AM   #35
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

HOw about a Rep?!
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:15 AM   #36
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

^ lol... does that mean you like it?
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:16 AM   #37
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

I think people can't accept the fact that Madara got washed.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:17 AM   #38
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

What if Hashirama never wanted to kill him and they all faked it. Like a "YOu will be known as dead, have your plan but leave the leaf alone." And so the story was told, but they knew only.
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You're captain of the football team and are heavily involved in other sports. You actually get pretty decent grades, but most people don't know that. Most girls really really REALLY want to date you, but you don't notice or care for them. They're just fangirls. Like Sasuke.
You have a cool headed manner, and it almost appears as serious. When you're out in the games playing, you're just as serious but extremely aggressive. This is what leads the NDF football team to victory (lol in reality the team would suck ass but lets just imagine it otherwise)
You're popular and a lot of people look up to you and see you as most likely to win "Best All Around" in the yearbook. You walk into a party and everyone shouts "AYYY IT'S COLLIIIIIN" and you get attacked by high fives by your teammates and crew and hugs by desperate females. But most people don't know a lot about you personally because you don't let anyone in a lot.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:30 AM   #39
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

^hashirama insinuated that his mistake was that he changed... from the guy who didn't want to kill madara to the one who did for the sake of the village...so if they both had faked it, that'd make hashirama a liar then and liar now... by saying he didn't know how Madara could have survived...


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Originally Posted by Raiden View Post
I think people can't accept the fact that Madara got washed.
are these the same ppl who said Hashi should have killed Madara then, instead of offering a truce?
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:36 AM   #40
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Default Re: How Did Madara Survive Hashirama's Attack

Your statement makes no sense.
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