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Old 04-22-2013, 12:15 PM   #1
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Default Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron? That is the question.
Now I’m writing this because of recent events, I’m pretty sure all of you have read the latest chapter of Naruto which is 627. In case you haven’t here is what happened Sasuke decided to be a good boy so does Orochimaru and Karin forgives Sasuke and starts hugging him.
Now there are a lot of problems with this chapter and everything that happened in it.
First of all Sasuke is a good boy now this is not really a surprise, this is not something Kishi pulled out of his ass now. We know that eventually Sasuke will be good that he will have a moment where he realizes that what he’s done is bad and he’ll join the light side. We know this so it’s not a surprise, however the problem is the way it appears to be done. I say appears for a reason that I’ll mention it later.
The problem with Sasuke’s redemption is the way it’s done. It appears that he decided to be good because of a history lesson, seriously that’s really it a history lesson.
Hashirama just gave him a history lesson that’s it, not even a great revelation.
Hashirama told him “Madara and I were friends in the beginning then our own version of Romeo and Juliet happened, because our families were in conflict with each other so Madara and I parted ways for a while then my brother killed Madara’s brother, then Madara and I fought, I whipped the floor with him and when he was down on the ground I asked him if we can become friends again. He said that he doesn’t trust me and the only way to actually prove it is if I kill myself or kill my brother. I decided to kill myself because I’m a moron but before I did it Madara stopped me and then together we formed the village. After that Madara left then we fought again and this time I “killed” him.”
And Tobirama told Sasuke that the Uchiha clan is a clan of idiots because they cannot deal with reality. Genetically they are doomed to be idiots who just can’t deal with life. If they ever lose someone they go berserk and because they can’t deal with it they decide to change the world by creating their own dream world.
And Hiruzen told Sasuke that Itachi is a million times better then he (Sasuke) is and no matter what he does he will never be on the same level is Itachi, he will always be inferior to Itachi.
Also Orochimaru decided to be good because he was in Kabuto’s body and he didn’t like that Kabuto tried to copy him and he saw that Sasuke took a different path (didn’t try to copy him). So because of those reasons he is good.
The great Karin appeared and she forgives Sasuke because he said and I quote “Karin. Sorry, Karin” and she stars hugging him.
Now there are a lot of problems with what happened in this chapter.
First of all Sasukes “redemption” remember as I said this is not something unexpected, we know that eventually he will have a moment where he realizes that what he is done is bad and he will finally see the light at the end of the tunnel and he will be good again, we know this. The problem is the way it’s done, a history lesson told by a dead guy. It doesn’t even reveal some great secret, some great revelation. Like let’s say Hashirama told Sasuke “Sasuke you are actually the son of Jesus. Now stop following this wicked path that you’re on.” or something like that. Now if this is true Kishi just proved that Sasuke is a weak character and I don’t mean weak in terms of power but in terms of resolve and determination. Let’s take a look at what Sasuke has been saying throughout the story. When he reunited with Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi he said that he will destroy Konoha and kill everyone in it after he “fought” with Naruto he said that first he will kill Naruto and then the rest and no matter what Naruto says he will never change. Then he told Tobi to transfer Itachis eyes because he wants to crush Naruto with all of his power. After he escaped the hideout he meet the Zetsu clones he found out what’s going on, killed the clones and said that he will go to the battlefield to kill Naruto. So far so good. Then he reunited with Itachi now Sasuke himself said that he wants to destroy Konoha and no matter what Itachi says he will never change, he also told Itachi that his hatred toward Konoha become even stronger. After that Orochimaru came back to life and Sasuke said that his hatred towards Konoha grow even more because he meet Itachi. So we understand that Sasuke didn’t change at all and still wants revenge even though he meet Itachi. And now he decides to protect the village because of a history lesson. Makes perfect sense doesn’t it?
Now if this is true Kishi just destroyed Sasukes character and Narutos character, the story, the consistency, the things that have been told to us throughout the story and much much more.
Why is that exactly? I’ll tell you. Kishi told us many times that only Itachi and Naruto can actually truly influence Sasuke. Kakashi can’t get to him, Sakura can’t get to him. Sasuke only listens to Itachi and Naruto. Itachi himself admitted that even though he can influence Sasuke, he doesn’t have the power to truly change Sasuke. Itachi himself said that he failed and the only One that can change Sasuke is Naruto. Now Naruto himself admitted that his “talk no jutsu” doesn’t work on Sasuke and the only way to get to Sasuke is to fight him. Naruto has been chasing after Sasuke for the entire part 2 of the story, he said that he can’t be Hokage until he saves Sasuke, he also said that he won’t confess to Sakura until he saves Sasuke. And now a dead guy that has no connection whatsoever to Sasuke has the ability to change Sasuke. Yeah seems, seems reasonable.
Let’s move on to Karin. Now since the beginning we knew that Karin is nuts so no problem there. But what Karin did in this chapter is beyond nuts. Sasuke used Chidori on Karin and he was going to kill her and now Karin forgives Sasuke just because he said “sorry”, he doesn’t even say sorry for “killing” you.
Kishi has a serious problem when it comes to female characters. Hinata is Narutos fangirl, Sakura was Sasukes fangirl and she is currently waiting to be again and Karin oh boy Karin. I’m sick and tired of the way female characters are portrayed in this manga. Right now I wouldn’t be surprised when Sasuke and the walking dead arrive at the battlefield if instead of seeing a fight between Madara and rest, we are actually going to get a catfight between Ino, Karin and Sakura to see who gets Sasuke. Hell even Hinata will jump in. Hey after the crap that we saw anything is possible. I mean three characters just took a 180 just like that in just one chapter. The only decent female character right now is Tsunade.

Now the reason I said “Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?” is because either he is playing us for fools, trying to trick us or he simply lost it and doesn’t care about the story anymore.
I said trying to play us for fools because Sasuke, Orochimaru and Karin acted strange in this chapter. Sasuke because all of a sudden he decides to protect the village, Orochimaru wants to help protect the village and Karin acted the way she did with people around her, usually she only acts like that when there is no one around, only her and Sasuke.
Or as I also said he is simply a fool and just doesn’t care anymore.
Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron? Let’s find out.

Last edited by Kakashi Hatake_Yamato; 04-22-2013 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Took out the censored stuff
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

Moron.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

Genius in some parts but yeah I agree with Maruko.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

The sad part about all of this is that Kishi has actually done worse.......

Pulling an uzumaki temple out of his arse?
The whole Tobi-Obito story? :facepalm
Sasuke's plot no jutsus
Pain turning good?
Etc
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

well to begin with pain and sasuke were not bad people in the first place they were just mislead. in the end all it took was some guidance from people that wanted to help them out. and besides hashirama was more like a medium for sasuke to make his final diccission, hashiramas story was related to almost the same thing naruto and sasuke were going throught, sasuke was able to related to it and pick the better path. in reality the weak minded where the ones that gave into their hatred that brings the uchiha blood. sasuke became the btter man from people that came before him(uchihas) and for Karin eeh that personality of hers is in her character no surprise. and as of orochimaru well who would of thought he end up good bet heck his out liege now by naruto and sasuke, might aswell be smart and be a GOOD BOY.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

@anyone who says he is a moron
-I would like to see you write a popular manga like this. Stop hating. The story makes sense 99% of the time and its better than most
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

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-I would like to see you write a popular manga like this.
I could do it. [o.o]
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

lol... hope that u achieve enough for at least 10 ppl who dont live in your country to know you ...

and stop dancing around Nagato's change of heart...watch fairy tails and see how almost every bad guy joins the good guys...there are a lot worst mangas out there...

and if u want to make a comment about a lot better mangas out there;... realize those mangas don't measure up to the monumentality and creativity involved in naruto...

atleast, i'm not pissed off yet!...


@OP...sorry i didn't read any of that... i think for your sake, TB should employ text limit to the amount of wall u can build...
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #9
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and if u want to make a comment about a lot better mangas out there;... realize those mangas don't measure up to the monumentality and creativity involved in naruto...
that has to be the dumbest most dishonest thing ever posted on this forum ever

really? Naruto is more creative than Gundam? Than Record of Lodoss War and Vinland Saga? than Akira? or Berserk?! Really?

puh lease and the latest chapter only proves Kishimoto has no talent and that he stopped trying to put out good work and is catering to the lowest common denominator in his own fandom...

if you wanna defend Naruto Kamel don't disgrace quality literature and debase yourself spewing out nonsense while wasting everyone on the forums time while doing it
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

I hate it when people do this, but it's really fitting in this case: tl;dr. Try to be more concise with what you are writing or use bullet points or something, because that is a large block of text. I think the gist of it was you whining, because you didn't like the direction the story has taken-am I wrong?

People saying Sasuke's change of heart is out of nowhere are way off base. He's been thinking about these kind of things ever since the war began. His only motivation for crushing the Leaf was because of what they did to Itachi, but Itachi himself wants to protect it and he now knows that Itachi wasn't misguided and the place really is worth protecting. Y'all are mad because Naruto didn't directly change his mind. As for Oro, I think he's plotting something.

As for the Naruto story in general, I think it's top notch. There are awesome, intelligent, well choreographed battles, lots of poignant emotional moments, and interesting plot twists. The story is also much better structured and less predictable/repetitive than most of the other major manga out there (I'm looking at you One Piece).

Of course you may not agree with me, because everyone has their own likes, dislikes and opinions, but you can't deny that Kishimoto has talent. As someone who has made a (very) short manga, I can tell you it is extremely difficult. You have to be able to draw well, know how each panel and page is structured so the action flows naturally and is easy to follow, and on top of that be a good story teller. All of this with weekly deadlines and editors telling you that you can or can't do this or that.

@Everyone who says he's a "moron": Why do you guys spend so much time here and post in Chapter Discussion, Narutoverse, etc. threads? I guess that makes you guys the morons for spending so much of your life discussing a moron's work.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #11
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Nostradamus say idjut
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

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I could do it. [o.o]
could....but wont

it's easy to make fun and critize of something so finding faults is no big deal.
Is it pERFECT-far from it

but one thing is for sure-kishi has done a better job than YOU ALL EVER WILL

So calling him a moron is a little too far...same goes for genius

if you don't like him then get off the fourm

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Old 04-22-2013, 07:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

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could....but wont

it's easy to make fun and critize of something so finding faults is no big deal.
Is it pERFECT-far from it

but one thing is for sure-kishi has done a better job than YOU ALL EVER WILL

So calling him a moron is a little too far...same goes for genius

if you don't like him then get off the fourm
If I was making 5000+ dollars a week to draw stuff up and let my imagination run wild, I would do it too, in a heart beat.

The only drawback is, you start to stop caring about the series after 13+ years.

PoP, you're a lot of talk, he either is a moron, or he doesn't care anymore.
Seeing as he has made many mistakes lately, my guess is the latter.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

Anytime you create a product that makes you millions I would say that person is a form of genius. The criticism of the product doesn't matter. No matter what you do someone somewhere is going to dislike it. I need to make my generic product that is going to make me millions.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

what was that rant I made in the vs section? Kishimoto knows that the overwhelming majority of Naruto readers are uneducated vapid air headed teens who have never touched a piece of quality fiction in their lives and thus he knows full well he doesn't actually have to work hard to write a story?

yup there we go...Naruto is garbage and the vast majority of people who read naruto do not have any value beyond mindless tasteless puppets that will fork over any amount of money for the sauce and Narido and aren't capable of actually thinking about a higher standard much less demanding such from their favorite author and pretty much have no opinion thats worth listening too"?

yeah I stand by that

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Anytime you create a product that makes you millions I would say that person is a form of genius. The criticism of the product doesn't matter. No matter what you do someone somewhere is going to dislike it. I need to make my generic product that is going to make me millions.
Kishi knows how to seperate stupid people from their money..the fact that he is capable of actual intelligent writing but chooses to cater to the lowest common denominator because its an easy form of prophet makes him a smart business man

it does not make him a brilliant artist..or a genius writer

compare him to Tomino or Tezuka..or hell Jack Kirby that's genius real genius
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

I liked part one and most of the final valley fight a lot(minus the gayness),but part 2 fell off for me. He's not a bad writer, not an idiot, and certainly not a genius from my pov. But unlike other series who have to cut their animes short, his is still going without end.

Haven't seen an episode since 09
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 04-22-2013, 07:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Masashi Kishimoto Genius or Moron?

Though you have to look at the actual demographic for jump. If you wanna know the truth the reason most people find Naruto garbage is because often times their mind has matured. Originally most readers only needed some good killings, explosions, and ninjas. Bam you got yourself a jump manga. Jump is hardly home for quality manga just enjoyable casual reads.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:55 PM   #18
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I liked part one and most of the final valley fight a lot(minus the gayness),but part 2 fell off for me. He's not a bad writer, not an idiot, and certainly not a genius from my pov. But unlike other series who have to cut their animes short, his is still going without end.

Haven't seen an episode since 09
we're pretty much in the same boat though I would argue because he is capable of writing quality stories but opts to spew out garbage for prophet it detracts from him

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Though you have to look at the actual demographic for jump. If you wanna know the truth the reason most people find Naruto garbage is because often times their mind has matured. Originally most readers only needed some good killings, explosions, and ninjas. Bam you got yourself a jump manga. Jump is hardly home for quality manga just enjoyable casual reads.
to be fair DL when it comes to one piece..and some times (though rarely) bleach I can turn my brain off and enjoy the show

you can't do that any more with Naruto

and certainly not the way some people in this section like the mans on the level of people like Osamu Tezuka Leiji Matsumoto or hell Frank Miller or Morrison or something
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:56 PM   #19
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and stop dancing around Nagato's change of heart...watch fairy tails and see how almost every bad guy joins the good guys...there are a lot worst mangas out there...


READ NARUTO!!!! THERE ARE A LOT WORSE MANGAS OUT THERE

That about sums up the sad sorry state of this manga.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Immortal Watch Dog View Post

Kishi knows how to seperate stupid people from their money..the fact that he is capable of actual intelligent writing but chooses to cater to the lowest common denominator because its an easy form of prophet makes him a smart business man

it does not make him a brilliant artist..or a genius writer

compare him to Tomino or Tezuka..or hell Jack Kirby that's genius real genius
See my later statement I just noticed this. The demographic for jump is young in actuality. The storylines in general in the manga is simple and doesn't really offer depth. Mind you the ones that truly hate the manga usually have a wider taste on fiction in general. If you compare to a lot of works it is garbage. For it's level he is more stable than most who usually go off tangent. The series is just another jump to me. If I were to hate it that means I would have to hate db, op, bleach , and every other similar series. So it is better to just separate it entirely into different category.
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