Naruto Shippuden

Naruto Discussion Forum
Who should win? Be sure to nominate who will reign supreme for this month's Member of the Month!

Go Back   Naruto Discussion Forum > The Great Off-Topica > Off-Topic

Off-Topic For anything under the sun that won't fit elsewhere!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-27-2013, 07:16 AM   #41
Ag_Surfr
QuickSilver
 
Ag_Surfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Danger Close
Posts: 3,589
Rep Power: 19
Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
Default Re: Advice to Teen Girls about Cyber Bullying..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackFat View Post
Not at all. It's a struggle that takes years and years of rational thought and self discovery. Yes we all need people around us that are a positive influence and make us feel like were worth something, we are social beings after all. But truly overcoming something you do by yourself, others may help sure, but it's still your personal achievement. People can tell you how to ride a bike, but you still have to do it yourself in order to be able to actually ride it the right way.

You really don't get it do you? The only compliments I am talking about are those based on appearance aka your face; where do they come from? What are they based on? I'm not implying we all consciously compare people to general standards and only then compliment them, what I'm implying is that the world would be a better place if people would learn to look past appearance. Not that this will ever happen, but if it did, there would probably be less bullies and less girls feeling like absolute crap. Yes I love being told I'm pretty, when my mother or someone else does it it makes me feel good. They do it because they love me for my personality and perhaps even for my looks. But that does not mean I automatically agree, hell naw. I am talking about the mindset of humanity and what we value the most. Because apparently we value big boobs, a hot body and a pretty face. Only few have the genetics to posses these features, which in my opinion makes it unfair to even consider demanding the female population to have them. Plastic surgery and eating disorders are skyrocketing for forks sake.

You and I are on a different page because apparently you don't realize I already flipped the page and started on a new chapter. You talk about bully victims who should have gotten more support from their loved ones in order to feel good about themselves and have the confidence to overcome bullying. I countered saying that even with all the love and support some people may get, it will not always help in the end. THEN I flipped the page, along came the chapter of what society demands of women, and how most of us can't measure up to those demands. I started hypothesizing WHY these demands exists and why we value them. I was watching a movie with friends this one time and they were complaining about the main character, he wasn't hot enough. When he had a sex scene (no not a porn) they were all disgusted. The mindset we all carry is twisted, like someone with good looks is more deserving of something than someone without. This is what I'm saying.
what are you on now? i think i mentioned bullying in one sentence and it was coupled with harassment and negative commentary. i probably should have thrown in the influence of media and society in there for good measure, but i thought those were implied seeing as how that's where the majority of people come to their conclusions about what is considered attractive or not.

you're talking about people like they live in a vacuum and you'r dismissing or ignoring the crux of what i'm saying. never once have i tried to advocate for individuals solely relying on the words of others so that they can have positive opinions of themselves. i only said that such rhetoric can help people have more self confidence so that they can combat the nonsense fed to them by advertisements, television, fashion/beauty industry, et al.

with respect to what parents/family may say: i've not heard them talk about any physical features for the most part. usually they encourage their children by simply telling them that they're beautiful. you can take that any way you want. they could be talking about outer or inner beauty (or both). maybe if you weren't so jaded and on some sort of crusade to fight any sort of characterizations based on appearances you might see that.

you're also making some sweeping, specious generalizations which convey that you've probably got some pretty major hang-ups: "...what we value the most. Because apparently we value big boobs, a hot body and a pretty face." give me break.

and what's with the malarkey at the end trying to pigeonhole everyone into your own compartment? sure, your friends may be twisted and deranged, but i know a good number of people who wouldn't sink to that level, so it's definitely not everyone.

you're damn right we're not on the same page. i very much doubt we're in the same book.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ag_Surfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:22 AM   #42
CrackFat
Jacqass
 
CrackFat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: i want to be pregnat with ur gardenign seed pink ninja amke me a flower
Posts: 12,547
Rep Power: 27
CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: Advice to Teen Girls about Cyber Bullying..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_Surfr View Post
what are you on now? i think i mentioned bullying in one sentence and it was coupled with harassment and negative commentary. i probably should have thrown in the influence of media and society in there for good measure, but i thought those were implied seeing as how that's where the majority of people come to their conclusions about what is considered attractive or not.

you're talking about people like they live in a vacuum and you'r dismissing or ignoring the crux of what i'm saying. never once have i tried to advocate for individuals solely relying on the words of others so that they can have positive opinions of themselves. i only said that such rhetoric can help people have more self confidence so that they can combat the nonsense fed to them by advertisements, television, fashion/beauty industry, et al.

with respect to what parents/family may say: i've not heard them talk about any physical features for the most part. usually they encourage their children by simply telling them that they're beautiful. you can take that any way you want. they could be talking about outer or inner beauty (or both). maybe if you weren't so jaded and on some sort of crusade to fight any sort of characterizations based on appearances you might see that.

you're also making some sweeping, specious generalizations which convey that you've probably got some pretty major hang-ups: "...what we value the most. Because apparently we value big boobs, a hot body and a pretty face." give me break.

and what's with the malarkey at the end trying to pigeonhole everyone into your own compartment? sure, your friends may be twisted and deranged, but i know a good number of people who wouldn't sink to that level, so it's definitely not everyone.

you're damn right we're not on the same page. i very much doubt we're in the same book.
Oh snap, let's take a step back shall we.

That other guy:
Quote:
100% agree woman are judged very harshly on there looks from a early age which makes them very insecure which leads some of them to want to get plastic surgery to change the way they look, just to please people who say they look "ugly" which is very sad.
You:
Quote:
most of that wouldn't happen if they had more emotional support from the people they care about in order to feel better about themselves so that the insults would have as much (or any) effect on them.
one of the biggest problems is that it's often the people that they care about who also make them feel insecure, then when other people judge them harshly, it reinforces the idea that they're not good enough.
Yes, the support helps somewhat, I'm taking from the original quote we also agree on how support alone is not always enough. Mystery solved, end of story.

Quote:
with respect to what parents/family may say: i've not heard them talk about any physical features for the most part. usually they encourage their children by simply telling them that they're beautiful. you can take that any way you want. they could be talking about outer or inner beauty (or both). maybe if you weren't so jaded and on some sort of crusade to fight any sort of characterizations based on appearances you might see that.
When someone is called pretty, good looking etc. that implies their looks/physique. Yes it's good to make your children believe in their own beauty, very important even. However, again, in my opinion it's a sad thing that we long to be beautiful/pretty/good looking in the first place because it can cause some major issues thus resulting in initial topic; sad people feeling insecure/wanting plastic surgery/bully victims.

Quote:
you're also making some sweeping, specious generalizations which convey that you've probably got some pretty major hang-ups: "...what we value the most. Because apparently we value big boobs, a hot body and a pretty face." give me break.
Turning this into something personal I see. We all have hang-ups, I'm just seeing western society as it is. This is not so much something I'm 'jaded' about, merely an issue that needs solving for the sake of young girls everywhere. I'll give you an example;

Spoiler:
Quote:
Seemingly, as adolescent
girls get older, they become more aware of societal ideals regarding appearance,
yet pubertal development draws many away from these ideals.
With no educational intervention, adolescents will internalize these values
and hence engage in social comparisons, which result in an actual-ideal
body discrepancy, entailing reduced body satisfaction and self-esteem.
Quote:
Moreover, in some cases, feelings of
body dissatisfaction and low self-esteem may lead adolescents seeking
self-improvement to increase their media consumption—resulting in a
‘‘vicious circle’’ of media exposure, internalization of sociocultural ideals,
social comparison with unrealistic images, and further erosion of body
satisfaction and self-esteem. Indeed one 13-year-old girl in the current
study commented that ‘‘magazines are going to exploit the fact that teen-
agers are often unhappy with themselves.’’
Quote:
Implications of this study, as with many in this area, are far reaching. In an
ideal world, the media should vary the size and the attractiveness of the
models they employ, to represent the diversity of shapes and sizes among
girls and women.
Quote:
It may be more fruitful to focus on giving adolescents tools to
deconstruct the sociocultural influences they encounter. Psycho-educa-
tional interventions in school could focus on presenting and reinforcing a
critical stance toward female beauty standards, in order to prevent—or at
least reduce—high levels of internalization and social comparison.
Source


Quote:
and what's with the malarkey at the end trying to pigeonhole everyone into your own compartment? sure, your friends may be twisted and deranged, but i know a good number of people who wouldn't sink to that level, so it's definitely not everyone.
It's an example taken from something I've actually experienced. Anyway who are you to call my friends twisted and deranged? Get off your high horse. What my friends said is completely normal, we all say/think it at times. Don't be a dirty hypocrite. Every one has said "ew" at an ugly person. It's basically human nature to do so, we get thrown off by things we find ugly. Even I have at times.

But as we mature, and hopefully get wiser, we learn to respect human beings for who they are, and not for what they look like. I'm trying to promote a positive message yet you turn it into some bitter, jaded speech coming from someone who in your eyes probably isn't happy about the way they look and wishes they could have a boner inducing face and body. Please don't make yourself look stupid by implying such things. I'm telling you about self love and discarding the belief that one needs to be good-looking in order to be socially accepted. Why? Because I forking hate misogyny.

Quote:
Primarily, objectification theory describes how women and girls are influenced as a result of expected social and gender roles. Research indicates not all women are influenced equally, due to the anatomical, hormonal, and genetic differences of the female body; however, women’s bodies are often objectified and evaluated more frequently. Females learn that their physical appearance is important to themselves and society. As a result, females consider their physical appearance often, expecting that others will also.

Sexual objectification occurs when a person is identified by their sexual body parts or sexual function. In essence, an individual loses their identity, and is recognized solely by the physical characteristics of their body. The purpose of this recognition is to bring enjoyment to others, or to serve as a sexual object for society. Sexual objectification can occur as a social construct among individuals.
__________________
Ag_Surfr doesn't surf.

Last edited by CrackFat; 03-27-2013 at 08:25 AM.
CrackFat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 08:40 AM   #43
Ag_Surfr
QuickSilver
 
Ag_Surfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Danger Close
Posts: 3,589
Rep Power: 19
Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.Ag_Surfr is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
Default Re: Advice to Teen Girls about Cyber Bullying..

you made me laugh a couple of times, crackfat, i'll give you that.

so some of your comments were also directed at what other people had said and not just me? i can countenance that, but i still don't see eye to eye with you (not that there's anything wrong with that). i much prefer your perspective than a lot of the other drivel i've read.

something interesting with regards to the information you quoted: apparently the young lady they were discussing already had some sort of issues to begin with, which is often the case with many people who're so adversely affected by what they see in the media in its different iterations as well as what they see or hear in their day to day lives from people they socialize with. it honestly doesn't have to affect them, but when their foundations are already suspect to begin with, those sorts of things simply drive home what they've been thinking and feeling for a while already. and i wonder where it starts...

i don't know anything about turning this personal, i'm merely pointing out that you clearly have some sort of agenda and you seem to be salty about something, then you're using that to formulate your opinion on what others think regardless of whether its accurate or not. sure, you can use the information provided by various outlets to tell you what people think, but then aren't you falling into the fallacies you're trying to avoid, just in a different form? i've talked to a large number of other guys about what sorts of things they find attractive in a woman and i think you'd be surprised if you heard what they said. although i never tabulated the figures, probably less than half of them were enamored with large breasts, or so-called "hot bodies". most of them were also vehemently opposed to most forms of "enhancements".

the thing about your friends was simply a progression of what you yourself had stated. weren't you the one who brought up the "twisted" characterization?

thanks for the personal attack at the end. apparently i'm striking a nerve or something. i actually like a good portion of what you say, but it doesn't seem like you practice it as much as you preach it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ag_Surfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 09:35 AM   #44
CrackFat
Jacqass
 
CrackFat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: i want to be pregnat with ur gardenign seed pink ninja amke me a flower
Posts: 12,547
Rep Power: 27
CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.
CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.CrackFat is listed in every clan's bingo book under AWESOME.

Awards Showcase

Default Re: Advice to Teen Girls about Cyber Bullying..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_Surfr View Post
you made me laugh a couple of times, crackfat, i’ll give you that.

so some of your comments were also directed at what other people had said and not just me? i can countenance that, but i still don’t see eye to eye with you (not that there’s anything wrong with that). i much prefer your perspective than a lot of the other drivel i’ve read.

something interesting with regards to the information you quoted: apparently the young lady they were discussing already had some sort of issues to begin with, which is often the case with many people who’re so adversely affected by what they see in the media in its different iterations as well as what they see or hear in their day to day lives from people they socialize with. it honestly doesn’t have to affect them, but when their foundations are already suspect to begin with, those sorts of things simply drive home what they’ve been thinking and feeling for a while already. and i wonder where it starts...

i don’t know anything about turning this personal, i’m merely pointing out that you clearly have some sort of agenda and you seem to be salty about something, then you’re using that to formulate your opinion on what others think regardless of whether its accurate or not. sure, you can use the information provided by various outlets to tell you what people think, but then aren’t you falling into the fallacies you’re trying to avoid, just in a different form? i’ve talked to a large number of other guys about what sorts of things they find attractive in a woman and i think you’d be surprised if you heard what they said. although i never tabulated the figures, probably less than half of them were enamored with large breasts, or so-called “hot bodies”. most of them were also vehemently opposed to most forms of “enhancements”.

the thing about your friends was simply a progression of what you yourself had stated. weren’t you the one who brought up the “twisted” characterization?

thanks for the personal attack at the end. apparently i’m striking a nerve or something. i actually like a good portion of what you say, but it doesn’t seem like you practice it as much as you preach it.
Good, sh!ts and giggles.
Spoiler:


Yes, they were mostly directed at the general audience. I’ve been thinking about this subject for a few days and was mostly curious as to what others find of my opinion on it.

Well their issues mostly stemmed from hitting puberty. (I’ve read the entire article, took me quite some time.) They had various test subject varying in age, mostly 11-16. It’s safe to say every girl gets insecure once puberty starts, it’s natural and also important. I think it helps them develop a sense of self, at least it helped me do so.

Not salty. A bit annoyed with people in general? Naturally. Perhaps it’s just part of growing up, who’s to say? There are so many different people, with different opinions. The opinion I’m sharing “hot body etc.” is not the opinion of men in general, it’s the opinion the media forces upon us. No matter what you look like, there’ll always be someone that likes you just the way nature created you, with boobs/skinny frame/perfect whatevs or without. Even so, just because not all men want these things doesn’t mean women don’t want them. In general, men love women with a good ass. Women however try everything to get rid of said ass due to the belief that skinny is attractive and being attractive is important in order to be socially acceptable.

Just because society is twisted doesn’t mean the people living in it are by default. Sure, when you think about it it is a twisted thing to say/do, but it’s something they were taught. Just like religion is passed on, so is our belief in what is deemed attractive and how attractiveness should be treated.

Not per say, more in general aka the media is misogynist. Taking it personal was your own choice.
I’m only human, I try and better myself one day at a time. I support my friends when they’re down and I stand up for them when they’re in trouble. I try not to call people ugly but see their own unique beauty, I try not to badmouth people behind their backs without them deserving it (if you're a bastard who ruins lives of course I'm going to tell people you're a bastard who ruins lives.), I try not to be an internalized misogynist too much and I try to make my life worth living.
__________________
Ag_Surfr doesn't surf.
CrackFat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.