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Old 03-01-2013, 04:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by kalmeast View Post
agreed...anyone who'd say this to the architect (me), that they'd destroy the building i designed infront of me would surely feel the foul surge in my chakra...


Hehe! 'foul surge in chakra' ...sounds familiar!!I'd do the same if I was an architect! And I might have done worse if I was at Tobirama's place
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:59 PM   #42
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
Well you pretty much covered what I wanted to post so......well said haha.
Glad I could save you time

and Tobirama did not really rouse his chakra. That was Hashirama...idk what Kalmast is talkin bout

Kalmast, idk how you can even tell that Tobirama roused/raised his chakra. he just raised a finger anyway.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #43
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Glad I could save you time

and Tobirama did not really rouse his chakra. That was Hashirama...idk what Kalmast is talkin bout

Kalmast, idk how you can even tell that Tobirama roused/raised his chakra. he just raised a finger anyway.
it's in the manga, right after Hashirama grabs his arm. It's Hashirama saying you don't have to raise your chakra. Not the other way around. That isn't the angered Tobirama starting with a quiet/whispered "brother," it's Hashirama trying to cool Tobirama down.

ch. 620, page 7, bottom left panel.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

ohhhhhhhhhh so your saying that Hashirama was still talking?

-Then I still think what UC said was right about both of us being right. You dont NEED to use hand seals or fingers to rouse chakra. Tobirama is famous for using single fingers or hand signs to attack. Oro would not to restrain him if he was just rousing his chakra and not going to attack and the others would not need to worry and Hashirama would not need to attack

THE POINT IS

-Tobirama is still hot headed. ALl the other hokages were clam while Toibarma was not. Tobirama condritcits his younger self by not talking it out with Saskue. Tobirama instead causes trouble
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:46 AM   #45
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
ohhhhhhhhhh so your saying that Hashirama was still talking?

-Then I still think what UC said was right about both of us being right. You dont NEED to use hand seals or fingers to rouse chakra. Tobirama is famous for using single fingers or hand signs to attack. Oro would not to restrain him if he was just rousing his chakra and not going to attack and the others would not need to worry and Hashirama would not need to attack

THE POINT IS

-Tobirama is still hot headed. ALl the other hokages were clam while Toibarma was not. Tobirama condritcits his younger self by not talking it out with Saskue. Tobirama instead causes trouble
Hello to everyone here. Read this forum sometimes, but today wanted to add 1 point to discussion, that you guys probably missing.

Tobirama isnt hot headed. He only acts so towards uchiha. As we can see in the manga, Tobirama says, that sharingan is an illness of uchiha. That when they have sharingan - its 1-st stage of them going crazy. And, since Sasuke already have mangekyou.... Most likely he sees it as a terminal untreatable stage.

You wont try to talk with zombie. Right? Its useless, they still want your brains. No matter how much you talk.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:14 AM   #46
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

SO tobirama was not hot-headed towards Hashirama when he told him to shut up? Even so being hot-headed just to his own people even the Uchiha is wrong and unfair to all of the things the uchiha have done for the village.

The uchiha do not have an illneess. just dont provoke them and nothing bad will happen. Be nice to them and everything will be good.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:43 AM   #47
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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SO tobirama was not hot-headed towards Hashirama when he told him to shut up? Even so being hot-headed just to his own people even the Uchiha is wrong and unfair to all of the things the uchiha have done for the village.
He wasn't...it was like an adult telling the yourgster to be silent, while adults have to talk. Thats as cold headed as possible. Since Hashi obviously have naruto personality... Its normal to treat him as a child.

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The uchiha do not have an illneess. just dont provoke them and nothing bad will happen. Be nice to them and everything will be good.
Sure...one day some random stone would fall on his loved one...and here you go...we have another madara. "This world is to cruel!!! Ill create better world!! With blackjack and..!! Without falling stones!". Uchihas are to unstable.

Naruto world isnt utopia. You have to be able to take the hit. Or go mad.

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Old 03-02-2013, 08:07 AM   #48
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

Fist off welcome to the fourm

Again begin hot-headed or rude just to the Uchiha does not make everything okay. That is a horrible exucse. A hokage should not be bias to his own people. All of the clans were forming to make a village and nobody did anything wrong. Being hot-headed and rude to the Uchiha to force them to be in charge of the police force and unwillingly and unknowningly be watched is funair. Te Uchiha did no harm to the village. They betryaed their leader for crying out loud. How is watching them and making them part of a police force help with their "illness". It just proves that madara was right. Tobirama was trying to take control. And not going to respond to your other comment since it is so exagerated.

Anyway I was just commenting on the OP. Obiviously Tobirama changed from a young boy who wanted to talk things out to a man who just gives out orders and does what he wants. If he really wanted to help or watch the Uchiha or cared for them and treated them as a part of the village he would have talked to them instead of sneaking around.

Waiting for kalmast response
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #49
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Again begin hot-headed or rude just to the Uchiha does not make everything okay. That is a horrible exucse. A hokage should not be bias to his own people. All of the clans were forming to make a village and nobody did anything wrong. Being hot-headed and rude to the Uchiha to force them to be in charge of the police force and unwillingly and unknowningly be watched is funair. Te Uchiha did no harm to the village. They betryaed their leader for crying out loud. How is watching them and making them part of a police force help with their "illness".
You can't treat their illness. You can only hope it wont arise again. You could only try to put their illness into right direction. Its like when you have to deal with someone, who explodes to easily. You have to give him the job, where he could let out his anger. Police force seems right here. They could even use some of their authority, to let out their anger on criminals. Less chance their anger would backfire on village. Just right and most loyal to uchihas decision. Other way would be just to genocide them all.
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It just proves that madara was right. Tobirama was trying to take control. And not going to respond to your other comment since it is so exagerated.
Well. He Had to take control. You can't rule village full of professional assassins without control.

And...in my opinion...Obito change was exaggerated too. Still...it happened. So... With uchihas...you can't exaggerate to much.

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Anyway I was just commenting on the OP. Obiviously Tobirama changed from a young boy who wanted to talk things out to a man who just gives out orders and does what he wants. If he really wanted to help or watch the Uchiha or cared for them and treated them as a part of the village he would have talked to them instead of sneaking around.
He still rdy to talk. Reread chapters. He wanted to talk with Orochimaru. Evil villain, that tryed to use Tobirama himself, to destroy the village. Tobirama changed only when he saw that mangekyou on sasuke.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:36 AM   #50
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

If you dont poke the Uchiah then nothing bad will happen. By bothering them you only feed the illness. What anger? THey are not bipolar little kids with anger issues that always want to fight. Nothing provoked them to be have a reason for them to be the police. They were fine in Hashirama's regin

Tell that to Hashirama. He led his village without keeping the Uchiha's on a leash

You call Obito's experience Exagerated?!?!
-Constatnly worring about his friends
-Trying and thinking about his friends and running to help get to them before they die only to lead to heart break
-Seeing his potential GF and friend die
-Seeings his Best friend kill his poenteial GF
-WItnessing his Best Friend break one final request
^yeah cuz that kind of stuff happens every day right? IT Doesn't it is not exagerated. Which is why not many uchiha's reach the stage of MS which is the most craziest. At best/worse they would get to 3 tomoe if that and that would not make them tooo crazy^

All the other hokages stayed calm. It was Tobirama who said talking was the way to go. He is going back on his word quite easily.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:42 AM   #51
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
If you dont poke the Uchiah then nothing bad will happen. By bothering them you only feed the illness. What anger? THey are not bipolar little kids with anger issues that always want to fight. Nothing provoked them to be have a reason for them to be the police. They were fine in Hashirama's regin

Tell that to Hashirama. He led his village without keeping the Uchiha's on a leash
Thats a shinobi world. There is no way they wont be poked again. Someone will allways hurt another. Some angry Usumaki clan member would swear on some Uchiha kid and even call Uchiha kid weak...and here we go. "I need to get stronger...im to weak in this village...*more crap*....arrgrrh REVENGE"

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
You call Obito's experience Exagerated?!?!
-Constatnly worring about his friends
-Trying and thinking about his friends and running to help get to them before they die only to lead to heart break
-Seeing his potential GF and friend die
-Seeings his Best friend kill his poenteial GF
-WItnessing his Best Friend break one final request
^yeah cuz that kind of stuff happens every day right? IT Doesn't it is not exagerated. Which is why not many uchiha's reach the stage of MS which is the most craziest. At best/worse they would get to 3 tomoe if that and that would not make them tooo crazy^

All the other hokages stayed calm. It was Tobirama who said talking was the way to go. He is going back on his word quite easily.
Its good, that you mentioned obito. Ok!. Lets looks into his history from hokage line of sight.
What happened?
1) War. YEp. Thats shinobi world. Thats normal.
2) Obito died in this war. Well...eh..fine.
3) His old team had some problem with enemy shinobi, and, to save the village, Kakashi had to kill rin. Well..thats bad. But this is war. Bad things happen.
4) Obito returns with "REVENGE!!!!'

What village did to Obito? Raised him to be good shinobi? Wy they deserve this revenge?

Thats why you can't work with uchihas. Their heads just dont work properly.

Hashirama was a God. Thats why he was dancing with explosives. He just that good. Even he failed to cool down madara. Though other hokages wasnt even able to keep up with his pace. And here we go. Sasuke... Ah...yes...Aaand Obito.

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Old 03-02-2013, 09:25 AM   #52
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

1) War. YEp. Thats shinobi world. Thats normal.
This did not cause Obito to go crazy.
2) Obito died in this war. Well...eh..fine.
He did not “die”
3) His old team had some problem with enemy shinobi, and, to save the village, Kakashi had to kill rin. Well..thats bad. But this is war. Bad things happen.
We do not know why Kakashi killed Rin. Don’t assume stuff. The poin is that Obito trained and never stopped thinking about his friends only to see that Kakashi has broken Obito’s only request. Obito was heart broken and went into despair. His master was long gone and Obito had no info to depend on of what or why it happened. Obitio gave him the sharigan and know he killed his potential girlfriend. This is not a common thing that happens.
4) Obito returns with "REVENGE!!!!'
His revenge is trying to “make the world ideal and a better Place”. Obito went though some serious traumatic stuff yet you act as it was no big deal

Please don’t act like the leaf village is innocent. The leaf failed Saskue like it failed obito. Obito watched as his friend kills his potential lover and as his master was no where to be found. Obito wanted revenge on Minato to make him suffer the pain he received.
That is so wrong. The Uchiha are regular people just like anybody else. They did not have an intense of a sharigan as of Madara. Their heads work just fine. They are still functioning properly to at least talk to
What are you saying? Yes hashirama is the definition of a beast but the Uchiha were still calm under his regin. Tobirama should have seen and notice that they were trust worthy people and that they do not go off so easily. Tobirama could have talked to them like they were actual people instead of bark orders like they were criminals. Not all uchiha’s are as corrupted as Madara. Madara took his brothers eyes and had the EMS so he was far gone while the others had a best a 3 tomoe shairgan which meant that they were still sane. There is no reason for Tobirama to not to talk with them.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:04 AM   #53
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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....
I) It was hokage line of sight. What he know? World at war. Obito is dead. Kakashi team had some issues and kakashi killed rin for some logical reason.
Obito returns on the fox to crash the leaf. Sure... Thats right thing to do.

What would be next decision for hokage, after he seen it? Watch over uchihas...their heads is totally broken. I bet Tobirama had same experiences with uchihas.

II) It was most beneficial assumption for your side. If he killed her for the village> Village to blame. Stupid, but possible.

Other assumtions would only benefit my case. Like it was genjutsu and enemy village to blame, or it was rins betrayal, and rin to blame.

III) Ideal world by coming in village on the damned fox and trying to bijuu bomb whole village? Yes...totally peaceful world.

What would normal non-uchiha person do?

1) Confine kakashi, so he wont escape.
2) Wake him up and ask what happened.
3) Gather info and test kakashi info. (without zetsu. This guys cannot be trusted)
4a in case of no one to blame) Return to the village and be old good himself.
4b if there is someone to blame) Revenge on the one to blame. Elders, Minato, Kakashi, mayby some other random evil guy. Not the whole village, full of innocent people.

IV) How you would imagine tobirama talking with uchihas?

"Hey guys...yep..its me...tobirama....So....I want to talk to you! You all are possesed by evil curse! Any of you could randomly go mad and go on rampage....so...i want you all to be as far from me as possible. Aaaand... 24/7 watch over you in case of new mad madara emergency...yep...in that case we would come and kill this new madara. Fine with you? Hey...uchihas?!!! What are you doing? STAHP!!!urglrrlll....."

There is another problem of uchihas. When usumaki member gets angry - he just got his sense punched back in him. When Uchiha is mad....He comes back in village on the damned fox and try's to kill everyone...OR on susano...doesnt matter... had hax.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:16 PM   #54
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

I)
What do you mean it was hokage’s line of sight? The reason for the death of rin may or may not be “logical”. I am not saying using the fox was right but it’s not like every Uchiha would suffer his pain or would reach MS and go crazy. Your bet is no good. I bet that Tobirama did not have the same experience. None of the Uchiha’s suffered that kind of emotional trauma during wartime since Madara. That is a long time for Tobirama to learn to trust them. Uchiha’s are only cra-cra with high level of shairgan powers and intense trauma which is RARE.

II) I do not like assuming. The point is Kakashi failed at his promised and Killed Rin.

III) Ideal world by coming in village on the damned fox and trying to bijuu bomb whole village? Yes...totally peaceful world.
Again I do not agree with his actions but not every Uchiha would take this route. It is a common yearing of revenge on the village. What Obito did is not something only an uchiha would do. Afterall Dediara was obsessed with revenge trying to kill Uchiha’s. And obito is a specific kind of Uchiha the one that has MS and went though intense emotional distress.
1) Confine kakashi, so he wont escape.
It does not matter what the reason because it is not good enough. Kakashi promised to protect her yet he failed. Plus Kakashi K.O’d and may as well be left for dead. Obito was so p’d off and frustruated no answer would safice.

2) Wake him up and ask what happened.
3) Gather info and test kakashi info. (without zetsu. This guys cannot be trusted)
Yeah cuz that does not take a lot of time or anything. Konoha ninjas would have scouted for Kakashi and Obito was too emotionally stressed to think clearly. Look at Naruto and the Raikage sometimes their emotions get the best of them to think clearly. How can you critize Obito when you have never been in that kind of pain. Obito is emotionless and does not care anymore that was his reaction from the loss.
4a in case of no one to blame) Return to the village and be old good himself.
4b if there is someone to blame) Revenge on the one to blame. Elders, Minato, Kakashi, mayby some other random evil guy. Not the whole village, full of innocent people.
Obito wanted revenge on minato and Kakashi because they failed. And he wanted them to suffer as much as Obito did. Obito wanted to destroy whatever and all that they cared about because that is how much he cared for Rin.

IV) How you would imagine tobirama talking with uchihas?
It would not be easy but it would be what young Tobirama and some of the better hokages like the 1st and 3rd would have done. Just sit down and explain their concern. After talking they would not have to watch them or use police force.
.No this is so not true. They are a specific kind of uchiha that have MS and went though emotional pain. This is not common for all Uchiha’s. It is rare and it did not happen for decades. From Madara to obito to Saskue there is a huge time difference. And if the leaf or Tobirama treated the Uchiha fairly no body would have gone bad.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:42 PM   #55
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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I)
Your bet is no good. I bet that Tobirama did not have the same experience.
Madara. Look at hashirama face, when they talk about evil uchihas. No matter, how much he cares about them...he wont argue, that they possessed by that illnes. I bet, they had enough experience with madara and his brother, to guess, what other uchihas are capable of.
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I do not like assuming. The point is Kakashi failed at his promised and Killed Rin.
so..anytime some friend fails with his promise to defend someone dear to me...I have rights to blow up whole city? It doesnt work so. If that was like that... I would be totally crazy psycho.
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Again I do not agree with his actions but not every Uchiha would take this route.
Deidara had his ambitions hurt...and he is a crazy psycho...Obviously not only uchihas are crazy. But uchihas have it in their blood. Its like juugo. Its normal to watch over the guys, that has rampage in their genes.
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Yeah cuz that does not take a lot of time or anything. Konoha ninjas would have scouted for Kakashi and Obito was too emotionally stressed to think clearly.
He have pocket dimension in his eye. Just put kakashi there - easy cheesy.
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Obito wanted to destroy whatever and all that they cared about because that is how much he cared for Rin.
In other words... he went nuts. From good honest boy, that cared about his village...to mad psycho. Thats kinda what I was talking about. Uchihas are rly unstable and cannot be trusted...
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It would not be easy but it would be what young Tobirama and some of the better hokages like the 1st and 3rd would have done. Just sit down and explain their concern. After talking they would not have to watch them or use police force.
Not easy? Common. Go on the streets. Find some crazy guy with a knife. And start giving him advices, on how he should live. He wont listen to you. They have pride. "Evil of uchihas" is just a tobirama and hashirama theory. Uchihas wont believe it. Such "talking" might have caused another war.
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No this is so not true. They are a specific kind of uchiha that have MS and went though emotional pain. This is not common for all Uchiha’s. It is rare and it did not happen for decades.
Thats what i was talking about. Random chance, that any of them would go through some pain and went nuts. When normal human goes through pain - sometimes its suicide. Sometimes he overcomes it. But when uchiha goes nuts - they wanna nuke the world.

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Old 03-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #56
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

I agree they do have an illness. But talking and caring for them like Hashirama did would not make the illness an issue
I do not agree with the action and its not the right but that is the curse of the Uchiha. Obito like others seeked revenge. But this is a rare case that would not have happened. As long as their was trust and love this would not have happened

Okay we agree. SO stop calling out the Uchiha like they are the only kind of people who want revenge and are haters. They do not get set off so easily either. They have to be REALLY emotionally reuined. And as long as they kept in touch of talking with the Uchiha they would know if Someone killed a loved on to get the MS…which is EXTREMELY RARE

Your kidding right? Obito just got that ability he could only phase not warp
I agree Obito did go Cra-cra. But that does not make UCHIHA’s UNSTABLE!!! It makes ONLY!!!! Uchiha’s with MS Unstable! Getting the MS is though killing your best friend so if Tobirama talked to them they would have never killed each other. Obito got his MS though and unsual way. Did you notice NOBODY OTHER THAN MADARA AND IZUNA KILLED THEIR BEST FRIEND FOR THE MS. And thus no other Uchiha became evil
And by talking with the Uchiha and having mutual trust they would not go down that dark emotional path of pain. Not by not trusting them and fearing them. Doing this would also cause. Distancing them for the village and treating them unfairly does not solve anything.


---------------------------
Dont ya see. No other Uchiha was willing to kill loved ones to get the MS thus nobody would be as evil as Tobi or Saskue or Madara
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:11 PM   #57
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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Dont ya see. No other Uchiha was willing to kill loved ones to get the MS thus nobody would be as evil as Tobi or Saskue or Madara
Ok..i finaly see your problem. You still thinks, that killing friend or relative = key for ms. Thats wrong. As Tobirama says, Sharingan = start point, you getting sharingan through pain. And to get ms, you should deepen this pain. Sure...by killing your relative u can get ms. After all, that would be painful, but...now we know, that this is all emotions. As long as they getting stressed and someone keeps harming their feeling >> eventualy they would reach ms. Thats why sasuke gotten ms without killing anybody. He just saw his brother death. It was enough. More emotionally unstable they get - stronger they become.

You can't just explain to a guy - dont worry, its hard for your heart. Nope. He would start worrying even more.

You can't talk about it. If they get hurt. It can happen anytime. And there would be no one to blame. But...if they get hurt...they would go nuts. Thats why there is a need for a watch. They have to keep a hand on the uchihas madmeter pulse. Otherwise - they could miss next madara. And no uchiha would belive it or even talk about it. They would just laugh on his words and quit shinobi alliance.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:25 PM   #58
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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But this is a rare case that would not have happened.

They have to be REALLY emotionally reuined.

But that does not make UCHIHA’s UNSTABLE!!!

---------------------------
Dont ya see. No other Uchiha was willing to kill loved ones to get the MS thus nobody would be as evil as Tobi or Saskue or Madara
You leave out the very first evidence that that the Uchiha are crazy. Tobirama said they blocked out their feelings. What do you think loved too much really means? It's not just in war. Otherwise the entire clan wouldn't do this. You trust in hashirama far more than Tobirma. Well Hashirama told his brother not to talk badly about them, yet he never tells Tobirama he is lying. So if Hashirama knows it's true, you know it's true.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:25 PM   #59
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

NO that is false. The ONLY way to get MS is by killing the person that you hold DEAREST! Above everything else.
Saskue got the MS because Itachi gave it to him. When Itachi touched Saskue on his forehead that is when Itachi gave him the MS. He transfered his ocular powers to Saskue

^That is the ONLY way to get MS besides that you can go up to 3 tomoe which is NOT insane level

IT did NOT happen any time. The Ucihah wer calm for decades without something devstating happening to get a high level sharigan and cause destruction of it. Talking would be watching. They would inform each other if something bad happen. The Uchiha knew they were being watched so they hid from them and kept secret. OBVIOUSLY watching them did not work since they were staging a rebellion. You do not know what the Uchiah were do you are not one.

The proof is right there. Nobody else killed their loved one for power besides Madara. So watching them and giving them the police task was not neeeded
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #60
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Default Re: Lil Tobirama; Progenitor Of "SHINOBI ALLIANCE"

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You leave out the very first evidence that that the Uchiha are crazy. Tobirama said they blocked out their feelings. What do you think loved too much really means? It's not just in war. Otherwise the entire clan wouldn't do this. You trust in hashirama far more than Tobirma. Well Hashirama told his brother not to talk badly about them, yet he never tells Tobirama he is lying. So if Hashirama knows it's true, you know it's true.
huh? idk what your trying to say. I know they blocked out their emotions and I already believed it was ture. So what? I just dont know what your getting at
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