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Old 02-20-2013, 12:43 AM   #41
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post

After all Oro can get bisected with ease while Jiryria needs prep to have good stamina
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Originally Posted by erndogzetroc View Post
I'm not sure that's a good thing
Its not
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:09 AM   #42
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

better than not geting bisected with ease (Jiryria)
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:23 AM   #43
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

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better than not geting bisected with ease (Jiryria)
Although i know what your trying to say, being easy to bisect is not a good thing, ever
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:18 AM   #44
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

True. Lol I gotcha but my point sill stands
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #45
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

i think by far Jiraiya was stronger than
Orochimaru but thats just my opinion lol
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:29 AM   #46
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

My opinion is oro is stronger cuz he's immiortal
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:32 AM   #47
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

immortal doesnt mean stronger
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:16 AM   #48
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

I kno but its better than just saying you think the other is stronger
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:27 PM   #49
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

I would say Oro because of edo.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:46 PM   #50
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

And oro is just smarter and more immortal
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:57 PM   #51
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

You need to read more carefully:
To start off let's talk about Orochimaru and Jiraiya. 1st of all Jiraiya became a sage in his 20s before the Ninja war in which they fought against Hanzo or if not right after it. (look at the episodes when Naruto begins training to be a sage) So by the time Jiraiya was 30 he was already at full power, and yes he is very good at sealing jutsu, this can be inferred from when he sealed amaterasu and also released the Five Pron Seal from Naruto. Now why did Jiraiya never kill Orochimaru? answer is simple isn't it? He still sees him as a friend, just how Naruto doesn't wan't to kill Sasuke, Jiraiya could never bring himself to kill Orochimaru, and instead followed him, battled with him and kept convincing him to change his mind. (please keep in mind that if Jiraiya was not stronger than Orochimaru then with all the times they have fought, Orochimaru would have killed him, why didn't he? because he couldn't and it was Jiraiya who spared Orochimaru instead. Also keep in mind that Orochimaru states that Itachi is stronger than him while his arms are still healthy (he tried to take Itachi's body while he was in the Akatsuki way before fighting Hiruzen and losing his arms) So there is that.

2nd part: Jiraiya vs Itachi:
I read someone bring up the time with Kisame and Itachi while Naruto was with Jiraiya. And some of you might say that Itachi was actually good so he just lied, but remember that Kisame was not, and he did not lie. Kisame said :i'm confident that you can go toe to toe with him but i doubt that i would be able to, he is on a whole another level. (please keep in mind that nobody in the Akatsuki aside from Itachi, Nagato, and well Obito of course was stronger than Kisame, so that already puts Jiraiya at their level.) Now for what Itachi says: "yes if we were to face each other we would both die" this means that if Itachi and Jiraiya were to 1v1 they would both end up dead. Then he adds "even if we had more people the result would still be the same" meaning that if Itachi & Kisame fought against Jiraiya that Jiraiya and Itachi would die (but Kisame wouldn't this is very important because not both Itachi and Kisame would die, but both Itachi and Jiraiya would, is easy to misunderstand when first reading the manga or watching the episode so go back and read more than once) please keep in mind that the reason why Itachi is so exhausted after using Amaterasu and Stukoyomi is because Itachi was sick, and for whoever said that he was stronger when he fought Sasuke, he actually was a lot weaker when he fought Sasuke because the sickness had gotten worse and he was going to die soon, by this time he wasn't only getting exhausted fast when using the Mangekyo but his body movements were poor (he got hit by sasuke's shuriken, which he could have dodged easily if he weren't sick like Zetsu points out) and yes he was still very strong, he clearly defeated Sasuke and was able to get rid of the curse mark, which was the reason he dragged out the fight for so long.

3rd. Jiraiya vs Nagato: Here is the deal with this one, i would say they were both evenly matched. The reason why Nagato wins is simply do to lack of information, surprise and emotional reasons. Nagato knew everything about Jiraiya, he was prepared to fight and he was not confused nor let any feelings get in the way. In the other hand, Jiraiya knew little about Nagato's new powers, He was very confused and had to figure out who Nagato was as well as how his jutsu worked while fighting him at the same time, and he was also blasted by emotions. Thus making Nagato win (but not without an effort even after all the advantages he had)

4th: The strongest Hokage
In the first season of Naruto it is said that Hiruzen, the 3rd Hokage was the strongest. This is because Masashi did not want to give away all the secrets to fast, and it was also said by a shinobi who did not have all the knowledge. The strongest of all the Hokages is Hashirama, the 1st Hokage, he is only rivaled in strength by his brother Tobirama (who is still weaker than him, and does not question him when he is serious *shown in the latest mangas*) and by Madara Uchiha who is the only one to have ever come close to defeating him.

Thank you for your time, i hope you guys can go back and analyze things more carefully, i was lost too at one point but everything makes sense now
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:31 AM   #52
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

^wow!!
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:10 AM   #53
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

Let's keep in mind we have NEVER seen Oro go all out yet

Against Hiruzen he was a lil sad to kill his teacher. And he was overconfident with edos by his side

After that his arms were sealed and he was sick so he was not at his best
Before the fight against Hiruzen he toyed with his enemies

Oro has and will always be better
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:56 AM   #54
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

Yes we have never seen him at full power but we still know that at full power he was weaker than Hiruzen when Hiruzen was at his prime (remember the flashback to 10 years before the fight when Orochimaru said that was Hiruzen's chance to kill him, since he was still relatively young) and yes Orochimaru plays with his enemies, just like Jiraiya does, both of them do since they are so powerful, no more than 3-5 ninjas in the whole world are stronger than them. Still with your two comments you do not show any proof that Orochimaru is stronger than Jiraiya, all you have stated is a personal opinion. I will say one thing though, now Orochimaru is stronger than Jiraiya ever was but that is because he has Hashirama's cells. Also keep in mind that Jiraiya could have survived the fight against Nagato but instead he chose to stay and die in order to gather information.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:55 PM   #55
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

Lol I love this Jiraiya wins with feats, and Orochimaru isn't hyped to be better than him, so Jiraiya wins both accounts. Come get me when Orochimaru backhands a giant bull.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #56
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

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3rd. Jiraiya vs Nagato:

Here is the deal with this one, i would say they were both evenly matched.
Yes but more no and it also depends on which you are talking about.

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The reason why Nagato wins is simply do to lack of information, surprise and emotional reasons. Nagato knew everything about Jiraiya, he was prepared to fight and he was not confused nor let any feelings get in the way.
You mean Nagato thought he knew everything. He was not aware of Jiraiya's Sage Mode. He didn't even know about Jiraiya's genjutsu. The latter especially caught him off guard.

3 Paths of Pain at the initial while defensive wasn't going all out either.


So technically neither knew much about each other. WHile you can say Nagato knew more on Jiraiya than vice versa, his lack of info on Sage Mode and Genjutsu rendered that useless.

However, intel on Nagato is far more valuable and that does give Nagato an indirect advantage hence his secret.

THe only other advantage that you can say Pain had was he didn't bring out all other paths. Then again Pain didn't use all his trump cards and likely didn't use Deva Path's powers or even much of Asura Path's minus the fist.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:40 PM   #57
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

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Yes but more no and it also depends on which you are talking about.



You mean Nagato thought he knew everything. He was not aware of Jiraiya's Sage Mode. He didn't even know about Jiraiya's genjutsu. The latter especially caught him off guard.

3 Paths of Pain at the initial while defensive wasn't going all out either.


So technically neither knew much about each other. While you can say Nagato knew more on Jiraiya than vice versa, his lack of info on Sage Mode and Genjutsu rendered that useless.

However, intel on Nagato is far more valuable and that does give Nagato an indirect advantage hence his secret.

THe only other advantage that you can say Pain had was he didn't bring out all other paths. Then again Pain didn't use all his trump cards and likely didn't use Deva Path's powers or even much of Asura Path's minus the fist.
Not sure what you mean at the beginning, there is only one Nagato and one Jiraiya. And as for the disadvantage, yes Nagato was not aware of Jiraiya's sage mode, you can't add the Frog Genjutsu because that is what it is, is a jutsu, of course nobody is going to know all of the Jutsu that someone else can use. So at the end of the day, Nagato wasn't aware of Sage Mode but Jiraiya wasn't aware of anything at all.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:59 PM   #58
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

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Not sure what you mean at the beginning, there is only one Nagato and one Jiraiya. And as for the disadvantage, yes Nagato was not aware of Jiraiya's sage mode, you can't add the Frog Genjutsu because that is what it is, is a jutsu, of course nobody is going to know all of the Jutsu that someone else can use. So at the end of the day, Nagato wasn't aware of Sage Mode but Jiraiya wasn't aware of anything at all.
Nagato and Pain are technically separate.


Nagato not knowing about Sage Mode is still equivalent largely to not knowing much because Jiraiya fought in sage mode in the majority of the battle. So yes Jiraiya knew less but in the end it did not matter much.

Toad Genjutus was referenced because Nagato did not know Jiraiya's genjutsu prowess through the Toads.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:57 PM   #59
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

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Originally Posted by 321zigzag3 View Post
Nagato and Pain are technically separate.


Nagato not knowing about Sage Mode is still equivalent largely to not knowing much because Jiraiya fought in sage mode in the majority of the battle. So yes Jiraiya knew less but in the end it did not matter much.

Toad Genjutus was referenced because Nagato did not know Jiraiya's genjutsu prowess through the Toads.
Oh okay i got you man, let me make myself more precise, what i was attempting to say was that Nagato knew it was Jiraiya, he knew who Jiraiya was, while on the other hand Jiraiya was fighting against 3 people who he had no idea oh who they were and why they kept getting back up after he had killed them, he did not know that they were really just dead corpses being controlled by a living person from a distance. That is the great disadvantage i was referring to, sorry about that. Not to mention that he fought Konan and recognized Yahiko's face in one of the 3 people he was fighting. He also didn't know that their field of vision was connected, he didn't know anything about his opponent you know? at-least Nagato knew it was Jiraiya and that there was only one opponent he had to kill. That was my whole point. But remember that Pain and Nagato are still one person though, just part of Nagato's jutsu, is a different method of fighting but still one guy.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:08 PM   #60
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Default Re: Jiraiya stronger than Orochimaru?

Oh and i will add one more thing to the whole Jiraiya vs Pain thing: If it were based on a first time encounter between two Ninjas, Pain would be the harder one to beat, this is due to Pain's fighting style and abilities being way harder to figure out than those of Jiraiya's and also Pain's ability to use many powerful jutsu's almost instantly unlike Jiraiya who takes a long time to use his most powerful jutsus (example the Frog song genjutsu and Sage Mode) so when it comes to that Pain is stronger but if we are comparing core strength, everything they have and assuming that they were able to use all of their strength and jutsu than i'd say that they are pretty even, if anything Pain might be a bit just a bit stronger (the rinnegan is just very powerful)
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