The strongest Nordic country?

[Ninja of Cao]

Recently, there has been much talk of an effective Nordic defense union between the Kingdom of Sweden, the Kingdom of Norway, the Kingdom of Denmark, the Republic of Finland and the State of Iceland. But if the North is attacked, which state will lead the vanguard and defeat our foes? What country is really the strongest of the four Nordic nations?

Note: Iceland has abolished its national defense entirely, and at this moment a joint Norwegian-Swedish air and naval project is responsible for the defense of Iceland. Because of this, Iceland is not an option.

Statistics Denmark Norway Sweden Finland
GDP: $201.7 billion $255.3 billion $354.7 billion $186 billion
Military budget: $4.33 billion $6.2 billion $5.5 billion $4.1 billion
Soldiers: 22,000 26,200 25,000 34,700
Reserves: 63,000 56,200 60,988 357,000
Available: 2,460,519 2,130,253 4,062,455 2,261,561
Logistical vehicles: 2,552 2,400 3,000 2,043
Mortars: 90 350 600 2,058
Guns: 12 35 55 684
SPGs: 0 56 35 90
MRLs: 0 0 20 58
AT weapons: 1,274 500 300 2,348
AA weapons: 30 200 150 445
APCs/IFVs: 571 1,171 1,519 1,233
Tanks: 57 52 280 100
Submarines: 0 6 5 0
Ships: 74 70 387 178
Helicopters: 64 66 49 47
Aircraft: 202 136 318 256

My own conclusion:

Spoiler:

Denmark will most likely be first to fall; they are ranked 3 out of 4 in defense budget and navy size, completely lacks submarines, have a pathetically small anti-air defense and few artillery pieces. Second from the bottom is probably Norway, a country that despite its oil wealth just haven't kept up militarily with its neighbors to the east. The final battle of the North would stand between Sweden and Finland: my eastern brothers have a superiority by numbers in artillery warfare, including mortars, AT and AA weapons. But Sweden has a larger navy, larger land vehicle force, larger air force, and a much stronger economy. So in the end, as you might have expected (since I made this thread), I think that Sweden is the strongest of the Nordic countries.

IMPORTANT: To my Nordic brothers, I do not wish us to fight, and I am in no way support a battle between our nations. Too much blood has been spilled between our peoples already, and I want nothing else than for us to look forward to a bright future of cooperation and lasting relationship. But we must be wary of our defensive capacities, so that we will be able to protect ourselves against foreign invaders and drive back the forces of west, south and east like we have done for a thousand years.

[Sir Michael]

Asia.

Spoiler:

-Troll Face-

[Shisko Shi]

I have a friend in denmark... Trust me it aint them.

[CoolerThanIce]

Originally Posted by
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[/B]
My own conclusion:

Spoiler:

Denmark will most likely be first to fall; they are ranked 3 out of 4 in defense budget and navy size, completely lacks submarines, have a pathetically small anti-air defense and few artillery pieces. Second from the bottom is probably Norway, a country that despite its oil wealth just haven't kept up militarily with its neighbors to the east. The final battle of the North would stand between Sweden and Finland: my eastern brothers have a superiority by numbers in artillery warfare, including mortars, AT and AA weapons. But Sweden has a larger navy, larger land vehicle force, larger air force, and a much stronger economy. So in the end, as you might have expected (since I made this thread), I think that Sweden is the strongest of the Nordic countries.

Wrong. Norway has without question the best economy in the North, because of their oil production. They also don't have to pay the annual EU budget of 32 million SEK (I give you the swedish currency since I see that you're a Swede).

Norway is also, unlike Sweden and Finland, a member of NATO (which means that they'll receive full assistance from NATO forces if they can't fight off the perpetrator single-handedly).

First of all, I highly doubt that any of these countries would ever end up fighting each other. Democracies have never been at war with each other. To top it off, these countries are all Scandinavian countries (except for Iceland and Finland, well it can be debated if Iceland is really part of Scandinavia).


They share the same community of values, they trust each other, they have popular influence and they cooperate with each other (mainly due to trading, import and export).

Now, on to your question.
Judging by the schedule that you've made, Finland scores best on average with Sweden on second place. If a war would ever play out between these countries (and no alliances or NATO were allowed to step in), Finland and Sweden would most likely be in the lead. Otherwise, I'd put my money on Norway.



Denmark used to be the strongest nordic country ages ago (Denmark controlled all of Scandinavia during the Kalmar Union, and although Sweden resisted a multiple times, they failed to break free) but it's now the weakest nordic country. They have zero MRLs, zero SPGs, they have no submarines and they have a low level air defence system.

[Wooster]

Norway has the oil, so them.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by CoolerThanIce

Wrong. Norway has without question the best economy in the North, because of their oil production. They also don't have to pay the annual EU budget of 32 million SEK (I give you the swedish currency since I see that you're a Swede).

Norway is also, unlike the rest of the nordic countries, a member of NATO (which means that they'll receive full assistance from NATO forces if they can't fight off the perpetrator single-handedly).

First of all, I highly doubt that any of these countries would ever end up fighting each other. Democracies have never been at war with each other. To top it off, these countries are all Scandinavian countries (except for Iceland and Finland, well it can be debated if Iceland is really part of Scandinavia).


They share the same community of values, they trust each other, they have popular influence and they cooperate with each other (mainly due to trading, import and export).

Now, on to your question.
Judging by the schedule that you've made, Finland scores best on average with Sweden on second place. If a war would ever play out between these countries (and no alliances or NATO were allowed to step in), Finland and Sweden would most likely be in the lead. Otherwise, I'd put my money on Norway.



Denmark used to be the strongest nordic country ages ago (Denmark controlled all of Scandinavia during the Kalmar Union, and although Sweden resisted a multiple times, they failed to break free) but it's now the weakest nordic country. They have zero MRLs, zero SPGs, they have no submarines and they have a low level air defence system.

Norway's gross-domestic product and purchasing power is lower than that of Sweden, despite their oil production.

Denmark is also a NATO member, in case you did not know that. Also, Finland has a defensive pact with Russia and all Nordic nations are required to assist each other in a war. But no foreign alliances count for this comparison. I am not trying to make the countries fight each other, I am only trying to figure out which nation is the most capable of defending themselves without foreign assistance.

Denmark was the strongest Nordic country until Gustav Eriksson (later known as "Vasa" or "Gustav I"), liberated Sweden and resisted Danish dominance over the Swedish-Finnish terriories in the 1520's. And between 1611 and 1721, Sweden was without question the most powerful Nordic country, with the most effective army in Europe and a kill ratio of 1:20 in some battles.

[CoolerThanIce]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Cao

Norway's gross-domestic product and purchasing power is lower than that of Sweden, despite their oil production.

Denmark is also a NATO member, in case you did not know that. Also, Finland has a defensive pact with Russia and all Nordic nations are required to assist each other in a war. But no foreign alliances count for this comparison. I am not trying to make the countries fight each other, I am only trying to figure out which nation is the most capable of defending themselves without foreign assistance.

Denmark was the strongest Nordic country until Gustav Eriksson (later known as "Vasa" or "Gustav I"), liberated Sweden and resisted Danish dominance over the Swedish-Finnish terriories in the 1520's. And between 1611 and 1721, Sweden was without question the most powerful Nordic country, with the most effective army in Europe and a kill ratio of 1:20 in some battles.

1. The only reason why I didn't mention that Denmark is also a member of Nato is because its military defense is pretty weak compared to the other three countries. So I kind of counted it out. But, since it's still a nordic country, I suppose that it still counts...

2. Since foreign assistance is not included, it's a tie between Sweden and Findland, just as I've stated before.

3. I never stated that Denmark was the strongest Nordic country throughout the whole history. What I meant was that Denmark used to be the strongest Nordic country a very,very long time ago (before any of the other Nordic countries) and that it has gone from being the strongest to the weakest.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by CoolerThanIce

1. The only reason why I didn't mention that Denmark is also a member of Nato is because its military defense is pretty weak compared to the other three countries. So I kind of counted it out. But, since it's still a nordic country, I suppose that it still counts...

2. Since foreign assistance is not included, it's a tie between Sweden and Findland, just as I've stated before.

3. I never stated that Denmark was the strongest Nordic country throughout the whole history. What I meant was that Denmark used to be the strongest Nordic country a very,very long time ago (before any of the other Nordic countries) and that it has gone from being the strongest to the weakest.

1. Iceland is also a NATO member, but I think you understand why I haven't included them despite the fact that it's also a Nordic country.

2. Finland has an advantage in infantry and artillery warfare, but Sweden has the advantage in ground, naval and air vehicular warfare. That's why I think Sweden has the advantage; I also know for a fact that there's a technology difference between the Swedish and Finnish militaries.

3. Yes, and Sweden has gone from being one of the most powerful nations in the world to be perhaps the strongest country in the North, if even. It saddens me that so much blood has been spilled among northmen fighting against each other... it's a shame that brothers and sisters could not unite into something even stronger. A single, united, Nordic nation.

[CoolerThanIce]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Cao

1. Iceland is also a NATO member, but I think you understand why I haven't included them despite the fact that it's also a Nordic country. Iceland has repealed their national defense, just like Japan and a few other countries have (I think you now why I'm particulary mentioning Japan). So yes, I understand why you haven't included them.

2. Finland has an advantage in infantry and artillery warfare, but Sweden has the advantage in ground, naval and air vehicular warfare. That's why I think Sweden has the advantage; I also know for a fact that there's a technology difference between the Swedish and Finnish militaries.
If the question would've been "Which country is the strongest in Scandinavia, the answer would've undoubtedly been Sweden, but it's harder to tell when it comes to a fight between Sweden and Finland. As for Finland having a larger infantry, I don't really see that as a "great issue" since Sweden has quality over quantity. But Finland's artillery warfare is not to be underestimated. Sweden's air force and naval warfare definitely gives them an advantage though.

3. Yes, and Sweden has gone from being one of the most powerful nations in the world to be perhaps the strongest country in the North, if even. It saddens me that so much blood has been spilled among northmen fighting against each other... it's a shame that brothers and sisters could not unite into something even stronger. A single, united, Nordic nation.

It's safe to assume that it won't happen again.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by CoolerThanIce

It's safe to assume that it won't happen again.

1. Unlike Japan, which maintains a national defense force of quite impressive strength, Iceland has no defense whatsoever apart from a police force. Norway and Sweden are responsible for the defense of Iceland, should anyone invade the Scandinavian island.

2. Sweden has artillery of superior quality (see the ARCHER artillery system; the second most effective artillery piece in the world, compared to Finland's mostly Soviet-made artillery pieces), but this was not a comparison of quality since that is much more difficult to make. I do believe that a larger air force is better than a larger infantry force, though.

3. Well, I am involved with a political party struggling for more Nordic unity and cooperation. Change is always possible, no matter how much the times advance. Who knows; in a few hundred years perhaps there will be a United States of Europe as a single nation, competing with China, India and Brazil for world power. The possibilities are endless; a little imagination combined with facts of realism is all that's required.

[CoolerThanIce]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Cao

1. Unlike Japan, which maintains a national defense force of quite impressive strength, Iceland has no defense whatsoever apart from a police force. Norway and Sweden are responsible for the defense of Iceland, should anyone invade the Scandinavian island.
Japan has renounced their right to declare war, however. It's not in the same boat as Iceland, but still. If they wanted to take back their renouncement, they wouldn't have any problem with defending their country from the majority of the countries in the world.

2. Sweden has artillery of superior quality (see the ARCHER artillery system; the second most effective artillery piece in the world, compared to Finland's mostly Soviet-made artillery pieces), but this was not a comparison of quality since that is much more difficult to make. I do believe that a larger air force is better than a larger infantry force, though. In my opinion, the air force gives Sweden the hugest advantage over Finland.

3. Well, I am involved with a political party struggling for more Nordic unity and cooperation. Change is always possible, no matter how much the times advance. Who knows; in a few hundred years perhaps there will be a United States of Europe as a single nation, competing with China, India and Brazil for world power. The possibilities are endless; a little imagination combined with facts of realism is all that's required.

The cooperation between the nordic countries are among the oldest and most comprehensive in the world. I always thought that the Nordic countries cooperated a lot to begin with (I've kind of already stated the reasons in my first post).

[Shisko Shi]

Oil will mean nothing soon guys. Every country is getting out of it. Soon Water will be what is needed. Still not denmark they suck.

[Maruko]

Hard to decide. I don't know much about those countries' politics, military etc.
In good ol' Eastern Europe, we settle things with vodka. :P

[CoolerThanIce]

Originally Posted by Maruko

Hard to decide. I don't know much about those countries' politics, military etc.
In good ol' Eastern Europe, we settle things with vodka. :P

Lol, you and your humor

[Shisko Shi]

My friend who has lived in Denmark all his life told me that they are a bunch of lazy peopel kind of. Like they are chill.

[Maruko]

Sweden. Blonde chicks with boobs.
*nods*