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Old 02-12-2013, 07:03 PM   #221
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by e710 View Post
Being trapped in a water prison and almost dying is not a fight. Neji didn't do anything against Kisame. Neji pretty much had a draw with Kidomaru he was on the brink of death and if no one would have came to save him he would be dead.
Hmmm-who else got trapped in a Water Prison?...oh right, it was Kakashi! Only Neji was able to break out on his own and then take out the three clones before they could do anything.
And when was Neji "almost dying"?

Kidomaru was also an enemy with a skill set that was terrible mismatch for Neji (i.e. long range fighter). PTS Kakashi has one long range jutsu which he needs a water source to use.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:10 PM   #222
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by e710 View Post
Said it back in the other post and gonna say it again. Raikiri will cut through rotation like a hot knife through butter. The only thing rotation has countered is spider thread spikes from kidumaro and a PUNCH by Naruto.
Well you should follow up this statement with proof/evidence

This "butter" as you call rotation is a spinning chakra dome. When has Lightingblade cut though chakra?

Roatation has more feats and has broken though the ground.

How would it cut though exactly? The dome is spinning so even if it could break though the dome would still be spinning and the blade would not reach Neji.

Rotation has stopped
-KN0 naruto
-Jubbi arms
-Kidomaru web attacks
-damaged ground

Lightinblade
-pierced humans
-damaged ground

WHAT ABOUT AIR PALMS!?!?!?!?
How does Kakashi deal with it?
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:11 PM   #223
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Kisame was at 30% and that was Kisame's clone which is 10% of that 30% so Neji got caught by 3% of Kisame's full power. WHILE Kisame had his main attention on fighting with Guy. Neji being a bad match up vs Kidomaru shows how he isn't versatile at all. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja bar maybe Itachi in the whole series. Kakashi's has a vast arsenal of jutsu while Neji is a one trick pony. BTW how much range does air palms have like 10 ft? Maybe?

BTW all attack that Rotation has countered are physical(punches, spear web, kunai) Raikiri is a chakra based attack.

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Old 02-12-2013, 07:20 PM   #224
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by e710 View Post
Kisame was at 30% and that was Kisame's clone which is 10% of that 30% so Neji got caught by 3% of Kisame's full power. WHILE Kisame had his main attention on fighting with Guy. Neji being a bad match up vs Kidomaru shows how he isn't versatile at all. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja bar maybe Itachi in the whole series. Kakashi's has a vast arsenal of jutsu while Neji is a one trick pony. BTW how much range does air palms have like 10 ft? Maybe?
Sorry, but the percentages don't work that way. The clone had 30% of Kisame's chakra, that doesn't mean the techniques have 30% of the power. Kisame has Bijuu-level chakra, so it wasn't a problem for him to distribute his chakra and use these techniques either. Neji quickly broke out of his water prison and then saved Lee and TenTen. When Kakashi was caught he was just like, "Well I'm F'd-you guys had better run!"

PTS Neji didn't have any ranged jutsu and Kidomaru's webs could stop his rotation. Kidomaru was just a worse-nightmare match up for Neji like Temari was for Tayuya. PTS Kakashi doesn't have a vast arsenal of jutsu either, maybe like 10. His 1000 jutsu are all hype. Air Palm has a range of at least 50 meters. (See the chapter 614).
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:32 PM   #225
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
Sorry, but the percentages don't work that way. The clone had 30% of Kisame's chakra, that doesn't mean the techniques have 30% of the power. Kisame has Bijuu-level chakra, so it wasn't a problem for him to distribute his chakra and use these techniques either. Neji quickly broke out of his water prison and then saved Lee and TenTen. When Kakashi was caught he was just like, "Well I'm F'd-you guys had better run!"

PTS Neji didn't have any ranged jutsu and Kidomaru's webs could stop his rotation. Kidomaru was just a worse-nightmare match up for Neji like Temari was for Tayuya. PTS Kakashi doesn't have a vast arsenal of jutsu either, maybe like 10. His 1000 jutsu are all hype. Air Palm has a range of at least 50 meters. (See the chapter 614).
That was Neji and his uncle using it, not just Neji. I am very well aware that Kakashi does not have 1000 jutsu but he has around 15 which is a lot more than rotation, 64 palms strike, air palms, and yea that's 3. Yes Kakashi does have awful chakra but he was able to use the Sharingan all fight vs Zabuza, had dog summonings, made water dragon, and hade enough for Raikiri. While Neji used air palms, used rotation and then died by the spikes why didn't he use rotation, oh yea Neji has aweful stamina as well. Neji can't keep Kakashi at bay by spamming air palms if he hasn't done it more than once at a time.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:34 PM   #226
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by e710 View Post
Kisame was at 30% and that was Kisame's clone which is 10% of that 30% so Neji got caught by 3% of Kisame's full power. WHILE Kisame had his main attention on fighting with Guy. Neji being a bad match up vs Kidomaru shows how he isn't versatile at all. Kakashi is the most versatile ninja bar maybe Itachi in the whole series. Kakashi's has a vast arsenal of jutsu while Neji is a one trick pony. BTW how much range does air palms have like 10 ft? Maybe?

BTW all attack that Rotation has countered are physical(punches, spear web, kunai) Raikiri is a chakra based attack.
Again did you read what I said? How would lightinblade cut though a spinning dome?

The lightinblade has not even countered or overpowered physical attacks. It has barley shown anything. Chodori could not even beat rasengan.

Air Pam's is mid range attack.its better than Kakashi would does not have a strong mid range attack.

For such a versatile ninja Kakashi does not show is much

So again I ask for you to fully read and respond to me please. Tell me how he handles air palm and how lightingblade would win. Stop downplaying rotation

Are you kidding neji has great stamina. He surivied so many attacks from kidmaro

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Old 02-12-2013, 07:38 PM   #227
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Again did you read what I said? How would lightinblade cut though a spinning dome?

The lightinblade has not even countered or overpowered physical attacks. It has barley shown anything. Chodori could not even beat rasengan.

Air Pam's is mid range attack.its better than Kakashi would does not have a strong mid range attack.

For such a versatile ninja Kakashi does not show is much

So again I ask for you to fully read and respond to me please. Tell me how he handles air palm and how lightingblade would win. Stop downplaying rotation
I am not downplaying rotation it just sucks. Kakashi can see air palms with his Sharingan, Kakashi could go underground or avoid. It has Air Palms ever hit a moving target that has credible speed feats? NO Neji can not keep using air palms and Kakashi will see the attack before Neji does it and will get a head start to avoid it. Neji does not have the best stamina and so he can't keep dragging out the battle ether. Kakashi summons his dogs they distract Neji and Kakashi cuts through Neji's heart. If the dogs could hold down Zabuza I would say they can hold down Neji.

Neji surveying a whole bunch of kunai like attacks isn't saying much and thats not stamina that, stamina would be his chakra pool, which isn't impressive. Also Neji almost died and Kidomaru was playing with him for most of the fight.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:40 PM   #228
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by e710 View Post
That was Neji and his uncle using it, not just Neji. I am very well aware that Kakashi does not have 1000 jutsu but he has around 15 which is a lot more than rotation, 64 palms strike, air palms, and yea that's 3. Yes Kakashi does have awful chakra but he was able to use the Sharingan all fight vs Zabuza, had dog summonings, made water dragon, and hade enough for Raikiri. While Neji used air palms, used rotation and then died by the spikes why didn't he use rotation, oh yea Neji has aweful stamina as well. Neji can't keep Kakashi at bay by spamming air palms if he hasn't done it more than once at a time.
It's not the quantity of jutsu-it's how you use them. A has one jutsu-Lightning Release Armor-and he's a Kage. Neji didn't use Rotation because he didn't have time to use it. Kishimoto made it pretty clear when he showed Hinata and Hiashi's thoughts, "That's fast" and "Neji and Hinata's air palm won't make it in time". The Juubi used a fast pinpoint attack against Naruto in which the Hyuuga had a split second to react. Neji used rotation multiple times against both Kidomaru and the Neji clone made by Pain's jutsu-his stamina is not a problem.

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I am not downplaying rotation it just sucks. Kakashi can see air palms with his Sharingan, Kakashi could go underground or avoid. It has Air Palms ever hit a moving target that has credible speed feats? NO
How does deflecting the Juubi's arm and being called an ultimate defense "suck"? Assuming Kakashi can see Air Palm with Sharingan, it won't do him much good since the speed of the attack is near instantaneous. (See Team Guy vs. Kisame-Guy and Lee are suspended in mid-air when Kisame is hit by air palm). Air Palm hit Kisame and deflected a wooden spike coming at Naruto-it's actually never been shown to miss-so there goes that argument.

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Neji can not keep using air palms and Kakashi will see the attack before Neji does it and will get a head start to avoid it. Neji does not have the best stamina and so he can't keep dragging out the battle ether. Kakashi summons his dogs they distract Neji and Kakashi cuts through Neji's heart. If the dogs could hold down Zabuza I would say they can hold down Neji.
Again, air palms are fast and Neji does not have bad stamina-there is no evidence for that. Kakashi's dogs meet Neji's Kaiten and go bye-bye. Neji can see the dogs coming from underground with Byakugan.

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Originally Posted by e710 View Post
Neji surveying a whole bunch of kunai like attacks isn't saying much and thats not stamina that, stamina would be his chakra pool, which isn't impressive. Also Neji almost died and Kidomaru was playing with him for most of the fight.
Well it says something about his tenacity when he can still run with two massive holes in his body and again-Kidomaru=PTS Neji's worst enemy.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:08 PM   #229
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
It's not the quantity of jutsu-it's how you use them. A has one jutsu-Lightning Release Armor-and he's a Kage. Neji didn't use Rotation because he didn't have time to use it. Kishimoto made it pretty clear when he showed Hinata and Hiashi's thoughts, "That's fast" and "Neji and Hinata's air palm won't make it in time". The Juubi used a fast pinpoint attack against Naruto in which the Hyuuga had a split second to react. Neji used rotation multiple times against both Kidomaru and the Neji clone made by Pain's jutsu-his stamina is not a problem.


How does deflecting the Juubi's arm and being called an ultimate defense "suck"? Assuming Kakashi can see Air Palm with Sharingan, it won't do him much good since the speed of the attack is near instantaneous. (See Team Guy vs. Kisame-Guy and Lee are suspended in mid-air when Kisame is hit by air palm). Air Palm hit Kisame and deflected a wooden spike coming at Naruto-it's actually never been shown to miss-so there goes that argument.


Again, air palms are fast and Neji does not have bad stamina-there is no evidence for that. Kakashi's dogs meet Neji's Kaiten and go bye-bye. Neji can see the dogs coming from underground with Byakugan.


Well it says something about his tenacity when he can still run with two massive holes in his body and again-Kidomaru=PTS Neji's worst enemy.
Kisame was occupied with Guy and Lee so Air Palms better hit while Kisame is not paying attention. The 10 tails attack was coming at them so Air Palms met it half way. Air Palms has never hit a moving target, don't say Kisame he got blindsided. Kakashi sharingan makes Neji's movement's slower so he will know when Neji is about to attack. Neji won't and can't keep spaming air palms and Neji has never showed good stamina or a vast chakra pool he has never been able to use his attacks a lot. Neji got OHKO by Naruto pretty much with the uppercut because Naruto hadn't touched him previous to that so Neji was tired from the battle. Versus Kidomaru Neji kept getting hit in the same spot that was Neji's plan to get hit in that spot to avoid major artery or organ damage and he was exhausted after that fight too. pts Kakashi has bad stamina compared to Naruto a freaking jinchuriki, he used water dragon, summonings, and had sharingan on the whole fight vs Zabuza and after that he still made some clones, not shadow clones but still something.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:15 PM   #230
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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I am not downplaying rotation it just sucks. how does it suck with the feats I mentioned. Where are your feats. Stop making random claims without proof. They just sound basis. The Hutus does not suck and you know it. Even enemy ninjas complemented it. It protected against a lot.
Kakashi can see air palms with his Sharingan, Kakashi could go underground or avoid.
using the sharigan to see the air palms is not a good thing. Using the sharigan takes a toll on his body. The sharigan would just steal more valuable chakra Away. As we stated Kakashi does not have good stamina. His reaction feats are not any better. After all zabuza manged to kick him and zabuza got away. It would even be OOC for Kakashi to use te sharigan off the bat. Kakashi is not fast enough and it is OOc for Kakashi to go ubdetground to dodge an attack
It has Air Palms ever hit a moving target that has credible speed feats? NO
air palms hit zetsu which was moving and it is faster than Hidan

Neji can not keep using air palms and Kakashi will see the attack before Neji does it and will get a head start to avoid it. Neji does not have the best stamina and so he can't keep dragging out the battle ether. Kakashi summons his dogs they distract Neji and Kakashi cuts through Neji's heart. If the dogs could hold down Zabuza I would say they can hold down Neji.
how do the dogs hold down or distract Neji. Neji can see them with bkyugan or blast them with air palms or rotation. Neji can see them underground and body blow would kill Em if they are too close. Neji has spammed air palms and Neji has better stamina than Kakashi. You keep saying words with no proof. Neji has lasted against the stamina master naruto and he surivied against kidimaro. Neji surivied fatal attacks and kept fighting till the end

Neji surveying a whole bunch of kunai like attacks isn't saying much and thats not stamina that, stamina would be his chakra pool, which isn't impressive. Also Neji almost died and Kidomaru was playing with him for most of the fight.
How is that not stamina? Chakra pool and stamina is like the same thing.

Kakashi was crippled after his fight with zabuza so how is that any better than what Neji did ?!

Please use feats/proof
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:17 PM   #231
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

I am not disagring with you POP.

But Like? If you are going to make an argument like that don't use the word 'Like'. Because that tells me you are not sure.

YOu guys also know that Kakashi isn't an idiot. How is it OOC to us Sharingan off the bat? He did with Zabuza. He did with Sasuke, He did with Tobi. He does with people who would actully put up a fight. Like Pain or Itachi.

How does he have bad stamina? Just asking. I mean you guys make it sound like everything about kakashi is weak. I mean this guy isn't a fool He would go underground to avoid an attack. Also Didn't Naruto beat Neji that way? I could be wrong. So if so then how would neji find him? I mean he didn't find Naruto.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:24 PM   #232
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Ok thanks. And look at our fight
-------------------------------//-----
Idk why he even mentions chakra pool. That has nothing to do with getting hit with an attack. That is pure stamina. Neji tanked the hit.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:40 PM   #233
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
I'm not really a fan of using genjutsu in most debates, especially with a character like Kakashi in which it's extremely OoC, as I don't remember him ever using genjutsu in a battle. PTS Kakashi's genjutsu was used against an unsuspecting PTS Sakura who apparently didn't even know it was a genjutsu either. Neji knows about sharingan genjutsu too, and with Byakugan he doesn't have to look into his opponent's eyes to predict their movements.
Point is we were only using an pts kakashi here. We cant not use shippuden(were he did the majority of his battles) to determine his behaviour. Just his part part 1 behaviour were he used genjutsu in the only 2 battles he been in. Fear vs Sakura and An image of zabuza vs Zabuza. Zabuza knew about genjutsu too didnt help him alot.

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@BMC next time just lock the thread and make a new one. To avoid these.. awkward situations like this thread is in right now
Should i change it back or...?

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Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post

@EVERYONE WHO THINKS KAKASHI WOULD WIN WITH GENJUTSU
-Please show me ONE PERSON!!!! Who used genjutsu while moving.
As soon as Kakashi activates the genjutsu Neji would hit a immobile Kakashi with Air Palms

-It is OOC for Kakashi to even use this. We know little to nothing about the jutsu that was only used once. Kakashi would at least have to know Neji's fear. Afterall Kakashi had knowledge on Sakura so it was not that hard to think of her fear. Plus The genjutsu distors reality but not common sense. Whatever's Neji's "unkown fear" would be it would have to be realistic to the battle and not a random hyuga or teammate dead at his feat. Neji went though war. And from my vetran family members nothing scars them now...at least their fear would not effect them as bad as sakura.

-Neji would still be able to rotate under genjutsu

-Neji has great chakra control so he can break out easier and he can inflict some pain if needed. It is not hard to break out of a lower level jutsu that is OBVIOUS is a genjutsu

-Assuming
Spoiler:
Kakashi mentioned that it was one of the academy basics. So sakura should have known to get out of the genjutsu. Neji is a genuis and it would not take him long to get out. Afterall an incomplete rotation does a lot and Neji would break out by the time the lighting blade is ready to go
'As soon as Kakashi activates the genjutsu Neji would hit a immobile Kakashi with Air Palms', the problem here is if kakashi has already activitated the genjutsu neji would need to break out. The only known way for him to break out by himself is making the 'kai(release)' sign with his hands. (and again we dont even know if neji is able to do this , so this is being generous).

Sasuke vs Deidara, Sasuke vs Danzo, Kurenai vs Itachi , Itachi vs kurenai (reversal), Kakashi vs Sakura (moved away from his original location that was behind sakura and went to some random tree).

Not even going to adress the fear part.

No he wouldnt.

No because neji doesnt have any feats that even suggests he could break out of it. Again im being generous here.

'Academy Basics'? Naruto couldnt even transform properly in his final academy year. Lee couldnt use genjutsu or any jutsu for that matter. etc. You cant assume they have all basic skills just because they went to the academy.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:04 AM   #234
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Point is we were only using an pts kakashi here. We cant not use shippuden(were he did the majority of his battles) to determine his behaviour. Just his part part 1 behaviour were he used genjutsu in the only 2 battles he been in. Fear vs Sakura and An image of zabuza vs Zabuza. Zabuza knew about genjutsu too didnt help him alot.
I took the image of Zabuza to just be Zabuza wigging out, because Kakashi was doing the same moves as him at the same time. Nowhere is it stated that Kakashi was using genjutsu. So yeah, Kakashi has never hit a high-level (or even low level) opponent with genjutsu. The only one is n00b Sakura who turned around right into Kakashi's face and apparently didn't even recognize she was in a genjutsu.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:05 AM   #235
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

It was heavily suggested. Ill reread the part later. Have school now
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:33 AM   #236
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

You do know the genjutsu is a short range move only right? So how does he get close enough. And he has to do about one or 2 hand seals which is enough time to use air palms before genjutsu takes full effect

Can you give e exact chp where genjutsu was used on the move

Kakashi moves AFTER the genjutsu was casted.

FYI- with te bykugan neji does not need direct eye contact and he can us if faster than a hand sign or two

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Old 02-13-2013, 08:32 AM   #237
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Sharingan genjutsu dont require hand seals thats the reason why its such an big of a deal.

Maybe later, lazyness is kicking in.

Doesnt matter he still moved during the genjutsu.
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on black person kage when his susuano grabbed him and he put him in ms genjutsu with tsuki.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #238
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

who moved during genjutsu?
And I am talking about the Demonic genjutsu requires hand seals

But the sharigan can not do much with genjutsu..At least not PTS Kakashi's sharigan. It created a false image but how does that help?

And kakashi only did that to freak people out while copuying. Kakashi can not copy Neji
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:29 AM   #239
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Kakashi:*Uses genjutsu to show that kakashi is real close to neji and is about to use lightning blade*
Neji:"Uses rotation*
Kakashi:*Dashs over to neji and uses lightning blade when he finished rotation while neji is still in the genjutsu*

GG
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #240
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by joon61 View Post
Kakashi:*Uses genjutsu to show that kakashi is real close to neji and is about to use lightning blade*
Neji:"Uses rotation*
Kakashi:*Dashs over to neji and uses lightning blade when he finished rotation while neji is still in the genjutsu*

GG
1. Kakashi has never demonstrated a genjutsu like that.
2. PTS Kakashi has only used genjutsu on one opponent-n00b Sakura who walked right into it and didn't recognize she was even in a genjutsu, and you assume that Kakshi can successfully pull off genjutsu on a Hyuuga jonin.

Fail.
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