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Old 02-12-2013, 11:25 AM   #201
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Default Re: Neji vs PTS kakashi

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This debate might end up beating the forum record.



Just awesome.
And just realized the thread title changed.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:55 PM   #202
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Now that this thread's topic has been changed, Kaiten basically won this because now it's not specific to Neji anymore. I could use Hiashi's Kaiten for this, which is actually very big and has little to some offensive capacity, to show it's superiority to Raikiri.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:11 PM   #203
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Even if raikiri pierces rotation, it still won't do the raikiri user any good. The rest of his body will still get deflected.

And yeah Hiash's giant rotation
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:12 PM   #204
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Ok, wow, first of all, y'all need to simmer down. Second, there's no need to gang up on Prince as he has some good points mixed in with the bad and the Kakashi supporters have made some equally ridiculous claims like Byakugan not being able to see underground-though, I'll admit the No Fear made me

I'm not really a fan of using genjutsu in most debates, especially with a character like Kakashi in which it's extremely OoC, as I don't remember him ever using genjutsu in a battle. PTS Kakashi's genjutsu was used against an unsuspecting PTS Sakura who apparently didn't even know it was a genjutsu either. Neji knows about sharingan genjutsu too, and with Byakugan he doesn't have to look into his opponent's eyes to predict their movements.

Neji would destroy PTS Kakashi in a CQC fight. The only thing Kakashi supporters are arguing with is hype and power scaling. Neji's feats far outclass PTS Kakashi's virtually non-existent taijutsu.

As for Rotation vs. Raikiri, I think Uchiha Sora already summed that up. Rotation is hyped to be another "ultimate defense" and has never been shown to be broken, and has been shown to block attacks from the Juubi's hand. Even if Kakashi could pierce Neji's Kaiten, he still couldn't reach Neji, as his Kaiten's radius has increased considerably in Part II and he would still be rotating which would send Kakashi flying.

And if I hear Neji can't rotate forever as an argument one more time...
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:22 PM   #205
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Default Re: Neji vs PTS kakashi

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Originally Posted by Maruko View Post
Neji would win that.
Hyuuga are not Konoha's strongest for nothing.
TS Neji is a jonin like Kakashi. No Kamui = Defeat for Kakashi

Neji's superior taijutsu would annihilate PTS Kakaashi.
I bet they only became the strongest when all the Uchiha were killed.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:38 PM   #206
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Neji supporters are delusional rotation can't even stop Raikiri. As proven by the fact with a strong enough attack you can actually backfire the rotation. Naruto did it with just his chakra.

Also cqc lol at people actually using that as an feat. You know nothing about fighting if you think a style will win a fight for you. Ask the numerous karate or martial arts participates getting their as handed to them on the streets. World star son you doubt this fact. UFC and mma in general supports this fact. Naruto was just a straight brawler and forced Neji style out of pocket. Kakashi is a skilled hand to hand. Nevermind his known speed in the series even in part 1. Most ridiculous and misinformed arguement. Even more so than Neji has no fear genjutsu won't work.

Kakashi is smarter, more skilled, and has a more diverse arsenal. You people need to let Neji die in peace. Kakashi raikiri>>>>wooden spikes think on that.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:57 PM   #207
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

We're not talking about Neji vs PTS Kakashi anymore...
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:46 PM   #208
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

@DL well were off that topic now

@BMC next time just lock the thread and make a new one. To avoid these.. awkward situations like this thread is in right now

It seems GK has entered the fray, shizz just got real
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:49 PM   #209
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

As soon as Kakashi stands and firms the rat seal neji blasts him away with air palms
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:10 PM   #210
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Neji supporters are delusional rotation can't even stop Raikiri. As proven by the fact with a strong enough attack you can actually backfire the rotation. Naruto did it with just his chakra.

Also cqc lol at people actually using that as an feat. You know nothing about fighting if you think a style will win a fight for you. Ask the numerous karate or martial arts participates getting their as handed to them on the streets. World star son you doubt this fact. UFC and mma in general supports this fact. Naruto was just a straight brawler and forced Neji style out of pocket. Kakashi is a skilled hand to hand. Nevermind his known speed in the series even in part 1. Most ridiculous and misinformed arguement. Even more so than Neji has no fear genjutsu won't work.

Kakashi is smarter, more skilled, and has a more diverse arsenal. You people need to let Neji die in peace. Kakashi raikiri>>>>wooden spikes think on that.
Neji had just begun the motion to start rotating when Naruto hit him and Naruto got blasted back as well-so there goes that argument. You also conveniently ignored that Neji's rotation covers a much wider area than Kakashi's arm span.

It's not just the style (which is the best in Konoha, and seeing as Konoha takes a dump on the other villages, likely the entire Narutoverse)-Neji is also amazing in his own right. He could block Hinata's chakra points with no one in the room (including Kakashi) able to realize that he did it. He effortlessly handled Naruto clones attacking from multiple angles-and a much more inexperienced Naruto was able to catch Kakashi using clone feints I'll remind you. He was able to dodge and strike down hundreds of kunai and spiders against Kidomaru. Both Naruto and Kidomaru couldn't counter at all when Neji attacked them with 64 palms.

PTS Kakashi on the other hand has no taijutsu feats. Also, as Sora said, Kakashi would have to go toe-to-toe against this taijutsu specialist and dodge every single one of Neji's attacks, because blocking or mutual strikes mean blocked chakra points for Kakashi. Got any chapters and panels proving PTS Kakashi's "known taijutsu aptitude"?-I'd love to see them.

Bolded part: You've got to be kidding me? That crap again? We all know Neji jumped in to protect Naruto and Hinata. Apparently you missed the whole point of that chapter and have horrible reading comprehension, because it focused on Neji making the decision to willingly give his life. He could have just as easily stood aside and let Naruto and Hinata get skewered.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:13 PM   #211
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

I even made a thread dedicated to Rotation almost three years ago.

http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56661

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Old 02-12-2013, 05:19 PM   #212
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

^I remember looking at that thread so many times
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:37 PM   #213
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
Neji had just begun the motion to start rotating when Naruto hit him and Naruto got blasted back as well-so there goes that argument. You also conveniently ignored that Neji's rotation covers a much wider area than Kakashi's arm span.

It's not just the style (which is the best in Konoha, and seeing as Konoha takes a dump on the other villages, likely the entire Narutoverse)-Neji is also amazing in his own right. He could block Hinata's chakra points with no one in the room (including Kakashi) able to realize that he did it. He effortlessly handled Naruto clones attacking from multiple angles-and a much more inexperienced Naruto was able to catch Kakashi using clone feints I'll remind you. He was able to dodge and strike down hundreds of kunai and spiders against Kidomaru. Both Naruto and Kidomaru couldn't counter at all when Neji attacked them with 64 palms.

PTS Kakashi on the other hand has no taijutsu feats. Also, as Sora said, Kakashi would have to go toe-to-toe against this taijutsu specialist and dodge every single one of Neji's attacks, because blocking or mutual strikes mean blocked chakra points for Kakashi. Got any chapters and panels proving PTS Kakashi's "known taijutsu aptitude"?-I'd love to see them.

Bolded part: You've got to be kidding me? That crap again? We all know Neji jumped in to protect Naruto and Hinata. Apparently you missed the whole point of that chapter and have horrible reading comprehension, because it focused on Neji making the decision to willingly give his life. He could have just as easily stood aside and let Naruto and Hinata get skewered.
Yes naruto blitzed him. Raikiri requires highspeed in general. Add to the fact Kakashi can use gates it can easily meet the requirements to neutrlize it. The size means nothing only the strength of defense. Name one time rotation blocked a jutsu on raikiri level.

Style does not matter. Naruto forced neji out of pocket with an extremely rough fighting style
and speed. Kakishi is way more skilled and a good deal more faster than Neji. Kidomaru is insignificant he didn't even use close range tactics. He is insignificant. Also proof of the Hyuuga having the best fighting style is pure hype with nothing in the story supporting it. The sharigan incest band is way more skilled. As is gai and Lee.

Also you are crazy if you think Kakashi has no taijutsu skills. He stopped zabuza a master swordsman while being practically blind. Not only that his use of gates shows he has a physical aptitude like gai. Neji cant even claim killing or defeating an experience fighter at all.
Nevermind even minus taijutsu Kakashi would rape with intelligence alone. Let the neji wank die.
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:59 PM   #214
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

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Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Yes naruto blitzed him. Raikiri requires highspeed in general. Add to the fact Kakashi can use gates it can easily meet the requirements to neutrlize it. The size means nothing only the strength of defense. Name one time rotation blocked a jutsu on raikiri level.

Style does not matter. Naruto forced neji out of pocket with an extremely rough fighting style
and speed. Kakishi is way more skilled and a good deal more faster than Neji. Kidomaru is insignificant he didn't even use close range tactics. He is insignificant. Also proof of the Hyuuga having the best fighting style is pure hype with nothing in the story supporting it. The sharigan incest band is way more skilled. As is gai and Lee.

Also you are crazy if you think Kakashi has no taijutsu skills. He stopped zabuza a master swordsman while being practically blind. Not only that his use of gates shows he has a physical aptitude like gai. Neji cant even claim killing or defeating an experience fighter at all.
Nevermind even minus taijutsu Kakashi would rape with intelligence alone. Let the neji wank die.

That was Kyuubi enhanced Naruto against PTS Neji. This fight is PTS Kakashi against post-TS Neji. Kakashi was only shown opening the first gate which does not boost speed either. The size does mean something, because unless Kakashi can interrupt Neji spinnning he'll still be hit by the rotating chakra even if he broke through it at one spot. Rotation also blocked the Juubi's arm which doesn't have the piercing power of Raikiri, but has a hell of a lot more force behind it.

Nothing supporting Gentle Fist being the best style...hmmm, maybe the fact that it damages the opponent no matter how strong their body is and if you just barely grazed them it still does major damage. Maybe because it's practitioners show amazing flexibility and the ability to dodge and counter attacks. Maybe because someone you touted as better (Lee)flat out stated that the Hyuuga style was better.

Not seeing how stopping Zabuza equates to good taijutsu skills. Zabuza makes broad sweeping movements with his sword-he relies on power, not finesse.

Rape with intelligence alone...Neji is no dummy and somehow I don't think Steven Hawking would win a fight against the Rock.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:13 PM   #215
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Default Re: Neji vs PTS kakashi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi View Post
Chapter 240.
Raikiri isn't even hitting the floor/ground and it casually slices through earth.An amateur Raikiri no less.
Rotation has done damage to the earth aswell so I do not see your point. And Neji was an amateur as well at it.

It's a Chidori except that it's majorly stronger.
Heck it even uses Raiton which is all about Speed and Piercing power.

Chapter 146.
Raikiri is an advanced Chidori and look what Sasuke does despite being a noob at it.

Yeah, now think of Kakashi with his majorly more devastating one.

It's also a nice comparison seeing that Sasuke can pierce Gaaras Sand with a amateur Chidori.

Powerscaling, Raikiri is much much more devastating.

Don't give me, "It's not about Sasuke", Chidori and Raikiri have very few differences except one being the latter being the more devastating one cause it's more concentrated than Chidori.
So what the Chidori can, Raikiri should be able to do as well and more except for Techniques.
Of course, this isn't applying to Cursed Seal Chidori.
And of course, "Kakashi split lightning with it".
Not true but it's a purposely placed exaggeration to show how fast it is.
I never disagreed about the feats. But destroying some of the ground is not that much of a feat. Rotation has never been defeated. It deflected multiple attacks like wood style and Enchanced webs from kidimaro. Even an incomplete rotation stopped a KN0 Naruto

@Gk
-Thanks for the back up bro

@Shikamaru Nara
-Did you have a come back for the last comment I made told you. You felt pretty confident that you were right. Did you forget that Neji's bykugan was not on due to lack of chakra?

@EVERYONE WHO THINKS KAKASHI WOULD WIN WITH GENJUTSU
-Please show me ONE PERSON!!!! Who used genjutsu while moving.
As soon as Kakashi activates the genjutsu Neji would hit a immobile Kakashi with Air Palms

-It is OOC for Kakashi to even use this. We know little to nothing about the jutsu that was only used once. Kakashi would at least have to know Neji's fear. Afterall Kakashi had knowledge on Sakura so it was not that hard to think of her fear. Plus The genjutsu distors reality but not common sense. Whatever's Neji's "unkown fear" would be it would have to be realistic to the battle and not a random hyuga or teammate dead at his feat. Neji went though war. And from my vetran family members nothing scars them now...at least their fear would not effect them as bad as sakura.

-Neji would still be able to rotate under genjutsu

-Neji has great chakra control so he can break out easier and he can inflict some pain if needed. It is not hard to break out of a lower level jutsu that is OBVIOUS is a genjutsu

-Assuming
Spoiler:
Kakashi mentioned that it was one of the academy basics. So sakura should have known to get out of the genjutsu. Neji is a genuis and it would not take him long to get out. Afterall an incomplete rotation does a lot and Neji would break out by the time the lighting blade is ready to go

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Old 02-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #216
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
That was Kyuubi enhanced Naruto against PTS Neji. This fight is PTS Kakashi against post-TS Neji. Kakashi was only shown opening the first gate which does not boost speed either. The size does mean something, because unless Kakashi can interrupt Neji spinnning he'll still be hit by the rotating chakra even if he broke through it at one spot. Rotation also blocked the Juubi's arm which doesn't have the piercing power of Raikiri, but has a hell of a lot more force behind it.

Nothing supporting Gentle Fist being the best style...hmmm, maybe the fact that it damages the opponent no matter how strong their body is and if you just barely grazed them it still does major damage. Maybe because it's practitioners show amazing flexibility and the ability to dodge and counter attacks. Maybe because someone you touted as better (Lee)flat out stated that the Hyuuga style was better.

Not seeing how stopping Zabuza equates to good taijutsu skills. Zabuza makes broad sweeping movements with his sword-he relies on power, not finesse.

Rape with intelligence alone...Neji is no dummy and somehow I don't think Steven Hawking would win a fight against the Rock.
The point is rotation has not withstood chakra based attacks. If you think so prove it. Common sense tells you raikiri is massively stronger than the attack Naruto uses with kyuubi energy

Ok your point multiple people have took damage from gentle fist qnd continued a full battle it is not that strong. Lee never used his full strength against neji. Common sense says he would have raped if used the gates on him. Neji was even surprised. Neji is just smarter Lee is way more skilled not even questionable

Zabuza killed multiple men with a kunai in his mouth before they could even react. Yeah he is not skilled at taijutsu

Name one elite opponent from the story that neji has faced then you may have a point serious ly.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:43 PM   #217
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

I dont think we have all talk about Air Palms enough? How does kakashi counter it?

Using his shargian to help him dodge will tire him out even faster. Neji can just keep Kakashi at bay with Air Palms. The sharigan would quickly drain his charka.

Could Kakashi even react fast enough to dodge? Afterall in his fight against Zabuza he was able to dodge his sword but not a kick! 2 air Palms and Kakashi would be hit by AT LEAST ONE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys do know that Kakashi's genjutsu is SHORT RANGED right! That is WAYYY too risky especially when kakashi needs to stand still.

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-You are right. Kakashi using genjutsu is his ONLY chance at winning...but there are too many uncertainities. Don't give up on Neji just yet
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #218
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Said it back in the other post and gonna say it again. Raikiri will cut through rotation like a hot knife through butter. The only thing rotation has countered is spider thread spikes from kidumaro and a PUNCH by Naruto.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:49 PM   #219
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Your argument is a double edged sword, you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
The point is rotation has not withstood chakra based attacks. If you think so prove it. Common sense tells you raikiri is massively stronger than the attack Naruto uses with kyuubi energy
IIRC Ten Ten states that Neji's kaiten sends back whatever attacks it with double the force or something like that. Gentle fist attacks also destroy chakra based substances, so logically it would block a chakra based attack.

And again, PTS Neji who hadn't completely got his spin going. Breaking through a Kaiten at one spot would still send Kakashi flying and wouldn't reach Neji due to his increased attack radius as well...we're going in circles here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Ok your point multiple people have took damage from gentle fist qnd continued a full battle it is not that strong. Lee never used his full strength against neji. Common sense says he would have raped if used the gates on him. Neji was even surprised. Neji is just smarter Lee is way more skilled not even questionable
You have to take context into account.
Against Hinata: Hinata took two attacks and went into critical condition. It was also a non-lethal type match in which Kishimoto was trying to play up Hinata's tendency to keep getting back up.
Against Naruto: It was once again a non-lethal type match and Neji used pinpoint attacks to block chakra points, he wasn't trying to damage Naruto's organs.
Against Kidomaru: Kidomaru blocked the first attack by using his metal chakra blocking secretion and the only other time Neji attacked him, at the end of the fight, Neji killed him in one flurry of blows (represented by blurs at Neji's arms). So yeah, it seems pretty effective to me. Lee knew the extent of his powers and still thought Neji was stronger. In their matches when Lee limited himself Neji destroyed Lee without trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Zabuza killed multiple men with a kunai in his mouth before they could even react. Yeah he is not skilled at taijutsu
Zabuza killed multiple untrained thugs who were scared down by Inari and co. (aka fodder). He still ended up with multiple swords stuck in his back. Hiashi took out a mob of presumably Chuunin and Jonin from Suna and Oto with one Kaiten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer View Post
Name one elite opponent from the story that neji has faced then you may have a point serious ly.
Kidomaru and Kisame aren't slouches. PTS Kakashi only has low-end feats against Zabuza.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by e710 View Post
Said it back in the other post and gonna say it again. Raikiri will cut through rotation like a hot knife through butter. The only thing rotation has countered is spider thread spikes from kidumaro and a PUNCH by Naruto.
And shuriken, kunai, wooden stakes, peoples' bodies, and the Juubi's arm.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:57 PM   #220
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Default Re: Rotation(Kaiten) vs Raikiri(Lightning Blade)

Being trapped in a water prison and almost dying is not a fight. Neji didn't do anything against Kisame. Neji pretty much had a draw with Kidomaru he was on the brink of death and if no one would have came to save him he would be dead.
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