Does fire have mass?

joon61 · 05-01-2013, 08:19 AM

I mean, I heard it does, and then I heard it doesn't. I don't know. But if something does not have mass, then does that mean that it's not there, that it does not exist?
Discuss.

Idekal · 05-01-2013, 08:20 AM

Does gas have mass?

Maruko · 05-01-2013, 08:24 AM

Isn't FIRE the thing we see during a reaction?
Or are we talking about the light that the is emitted during the reaction?

CoolerThanIce · 05-01-2013, 08:24 AM

Yes. Fire is either burning particles or energy, both of which are symbiotic. Energy <--> mass, or E=Mc^2.

BMC1994 · 05-01-2013, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idekal

Does gas have mass?

Yes..

joon61 · 05-01-2013, 08:44 AM

Some people say it does not because you can go through it.

Maruko · 05-01-2013, 08:48 AM

lolwut.

Maruko · 05-01-2013, 08:49 AM

You can go through water, does it mean it doesn't have mass?

BMC1994 · 05-01-2013, 08:49 AM

Thats just because the particles in a gas have much much more space inbetween them then there would be in a solid or liquid substance.

to illustrate

.=particle
-= space because stupid forum doesnt let me post alot of spaces between the dots

Solid: ........................
Liquid: . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Gas: . ------- . ----------- . -------- . --------- . --------- .---------.

The particles dont lose their mass just because there is more space between them. They are still the same particles after all.

Maruko · 05-01-2013, 08:51 AM

Solid: ________________
Liquid: ......................
Gas: . . .

Fighting_dreamer · 05-01-2013, 05:12 PM

Even the subatomic particles have a mass

Shisko Shi · 05-01-2013, 05:15 PM

Yea It has mass.

Wooster · 05-01-2013, 05:36 PM

Assuming you mean only the light and heat and not the fuel, short answer no.

Long answer
Photons do not have rest energy mass, but since photons are always moving they do have a small amount of momentum, which acts like mass.

Heat of course is just energy(vibrational ,rotation and translation) inherently that is massless, but cannot exist without the mass that it has excited.

joon61 · 05-01-2013, 05:47 PM

So then fire is a gas then? So it had mass all along. I was always told that it did not have any. I guess since everyone knew the answer(except me) then it was not really much of a debate then, right?

Shisko Shi · 05-01-2013, 05:49 PM

Light has mass.

Fire has mass.

Quote:

The alchemists, along with many other people, believed that everything was made out of a combination of the four "classical elements": water, air, earth and fire. We now know that this is wrong, and that what we see is actually made out of atoms. For example, water is made of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. Air is composed mostly of nitrogen and oxygen atoms. Earth is also a blend of atoms.

Therefore, three out of the four "elements" of the alchemists are simple combinations of atoms. It would be nice to describe fire in the same way. Unfortunately, that doesn't work. Now don't get me wrong; when you look at fire, what you see is a bunch of atoms. In a flame, you'll find nitrogen, carbon, oxygen and hydrogen atoms. But the reason it glows and produces heat, the reason we call it fire, lies in what is happening to those atoms.

Fire almost always occurs when a fuel such as gas, wood or paper is put in contact with oxygen at a high enough temperature. When this happens, oxygen atoms (mostly from the air) and carbon atoms (from the fuel) are able to break free and bond together to form molecules such as CO2. By doing so, they release energy in the form of heat, and light that you can see. Some of the heat comes out of the fire to warm up its surroundings. Some of it is also used to break other carbon and oxygen atoms free and allows the fire to keep burning. Finally, the heat makes some of the soot particles in the fire so hot they glow, just like the element of an electric stovetop. This is what gives wood fires their orange color.

So fire is a process, a chemical reaction, between atoms. These atoms have a mass, but they would be there and have the same mass even if a fire wasn't burning. Hence the fire itself, being a process rather than an object as the alchemists thought, does not have mass.

Wooster · 05-01-2013, 05:57 PM

No, fire is not a gas. Technically doesn't even require a gas, only fuel and oxidizer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shisko Shi

Light has mass.

Fire has mass.

Light does not have mass

Naruto · 05-01-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooster

No, fire is not a gas. Technically doesn't even require a gas, only fuel and oxidizer.
Light does not have mass

Photons do actually have mass, but it so little it's insignificant.

Naruto · 05-01-2013, 06:24 PM

When you see fire, aren't atoms just doing quantum leaps?

Kreegah!!! · 05-02-2013, 01:27 AM

Fire can't be explained by science. It is magic.

Cantervoo · 05-02-2013, 03:07 AM

no. the atoms that create the fire have mass. the atoms from the oxygen in the air and carbon from whatever your using as fuel, break apart and bond together creating the fire. the bonded atoms emit heat and light. so technically no. fire has NO mass.

05-01-2013, 08:19 AM	#1
joon61 Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Trying to eleminate the source of people's problems. Or make their day better by saying funny things Posts: 10,779 Rep Power: 17 Member's Picture Albums	Does fire have mass? I mean, I heard it does, and then I heard it doesn't. I don't know. But if something does not have mass, then does that mean that it's not there, that it does not exist? Discuss. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 08:20 AM	#2
Idekal Chunin Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Somewhere, Where is that? Posts: 957 Rep Power: 5 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Does fire have mass? Does gas have mass? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 08:24 AM	#3
Maruko Winter is Coming Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 12,283 Rep Power: 33	Re: Does fire have mass? Isn't FIRE the thing we see during a reaction? Or are we talking about the light that the is emitted during the reaction?

05-01-2013, 08:24 AM	#4
CoolerThanIce Veteran Chunin Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Igloo. Posts: 1,394 Rep Power: 6	Re: Does fire have mass? Yes. Fire is either burning particles or energy, both of which are symbiotic. Energy <--> mass, or E=Mc^2. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ♫This night will fall, like any other. Daylight subsides and shadows crawl from under. Black corners hiding, something stirs, oh so restless, cracked windows open wide, deadbolts turn, doors creak open, whispers and moonlight there to guide. Come raise your lantern to the sky. Can we illuminate this night? While the world sleeps we are awake♫

05-01-2013, 08:44 AM	#6
joon61 Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Trying to eleminate the source of people's problems. Or make their day better by saying funny things Posts: 10,779 Rep Power: 17 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Does fire have mass? Some people say it does not because you can go through it. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 08:48 AM	#7
Maruko Winter is Coming Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 12,283 Rep Power: 33	Re: Does fire have mass? lolwut.

05-01-2013, 08:49 AM	#8
Maruko Winter is Coming Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 12,283 Rep Power: 33	Re: Does fire have mass? You can go through water, does it mean it doesn't have mass?

05-01-2013, 08:51 AM	#10
Maruko Winter is Coming Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 12,283 Rep Power: 33	Re: Does fire have mass? Solid: ________________ Liquid: ...................... Gas: . . .

05-01-2013, 05:12 PM	#11
Fighting_dreamer Genin Elite Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: A shire in England Posts: 467 Rep Power: 8	Re: Does fire have mass? Even the subatomic particles have a mass __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 05:15 PM	#12
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,008 Rep Power: 15	Re: Does fire have mass? Yea It has mass. __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 05:36 PM	#13
Wooster Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 36,975 Rep Power: 32	Re: Does fire have mass? Assuming you mean only the light and heat and not the fuel, short answer no. Long answer Photons do not have rest energy mass, but since photons are always moving they do have a small amount of momentum, which acts like mass. Heat of course is just energy(vibrational ,rotation and translation) inherently that is massless, but cannot exist without the mass that it has excited. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 05:47 PM	#14
joon61 Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Trying to eleminate the source of people's problems. Or make their day better by saying funny things Posts: 10,779 Rep Power: 17 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Does fire have mass? So then fire is a gas then? So it had mass all along. I was always told that it did not have any. I guess since everyone knew the answer(except me) then it was not really much of a debate then, right? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-01-2013, 06:24 PM	#18
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05-02-2013, 01:27 AM	#19
Kreegah!!! Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,874 Rep Power: 15	Re: Does fire have mass? Fire can't be explained by science. It is magic.

05-02-2013, 03:07 AM	#20
Cantervoo Apprentice Genin Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Gangster Hoe Posts: 125 Rep Power: 1	Re: Does fire have mass? no. the atoms that create the fire have mass. the atoms from the oxygen in the air and carbon from whatever your using as fuel, break apart and bond together creating the fire. the bonded atoms emit heat and light. so technically no. fire has NO mass. __________________ Just Call Me Gangster Hoe︻┳═一 -JAFL ScrappY Approves! She don't know why but all she knows is that her youngest child is a "Real Gangsta" now. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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