Spoiler Kakashi sharingan incomplete

[scallanan]

As we all know, Kakashi got his sharingan from Obito. One of the main jutsu this one particular sharingan can do is Kamui. Obito extended Kamui far enough so that he can transport parts of his own body to the Kamui realm for a period of 5min. So does that mean Kakashi could do the same, not taking into account his chakra reserves?
Also, (i'm not totally clear how the other MS powerups work) shouldn't Kakashi be able to use amaterasu/susano'o/tsukuyomi? I think susano'o needs both MS to activate, but amaterasu needs only one. Could kakashi eventually develop these skills with his MS?

[Ghost4321]

I would think he could if he had the body of an uchiha, as far as amaterasu/susano'o/tsukuyomi I believe the manga had said to use them you have to awaken ms or ems in both eyes to use them (I know for sure both eyes for susano'o tho)

[SmellyDump]

But remember that different eyes of the sharingan have different powers as Itachi can use his genjustsu with one eye and amaterasu with the other so Kakashi can aim his kamui at ranged objects while the other eye in the set can only use kamui through physical contact. It is also believed that different branches of the Uchiha clan can use different powers with the sharingan as Sasuke's family can use amaterasu and tsukuyomi while Obito's family could probably have used Kamui.

[Kakashi Hatake_Yamato]

Both can use Kamui, but both have different effects.
Kakashi's is long ranged, and Obito's is short ranged.
Kakashi can Kamui things from far away, whereas Obito could suck in things that seem closer to him.
Something like that......
But that seems like Kamui to its fullest content.

Each eye has its own power.

[scallanan]

@Ghost I don't think the body of an Uchiha is necessary for Kamui to be complete, however I'm guessing it would be significantly harder to master if one did not have it (which is why Kakashi was revered highly for his mastery of his sharingan). As for the three main MS powers, Tsukuyomi definitely only requires only one eye to use. Susano'o is the main exception, and requires MS in both eyes. Amaterasu only requires one eye to start the flame, and the other to extinguish it (or so it was with Sasuke). That said, I'm not entirely sure whether you needed the two eyes to begin with to be able to perform these 3 power-ups or not, but I myself would think it isn't necessary. However, Obito has not shown any use of tsukuyomi, amaterasu, or susano'o thus far, and could prove that both eyes are needed.

@SD You could be right. Kakashi hasn't shown to "teleport" himself using Kamui, nor has Obito shown long-distance use of it either. It could be like Amaterasu starts with one eye and is extinguished with the other. So both Kakashi's and Obito's are incomplete. As for what you said about different families within the Uchiha clan having different special dojutsu, this is true (as seen with Shisui and Obito) but all 3 main MS powers are available to everyone.

@Kakashi So what you're saying is that obito's left and right eye could use different parts of the kamui jutsu? Seems probable considering the circumstances given.

[Obito]

Kakashi sadly isn't an Uchiha, so his sharingan is as powerful as it could be, non the less, his sharingan is complete, he's able to do Kamui, the only difference between him and Obito is that Obito is a full blooded Uchiha, his prowess with the Sharingan is gonna be 20x better than Kakashi's Mangekyou sharingan because Kakashi can't sustain the amount of chakra that the Sharingan uses due to him not being a full blooded Uchiha, where as Obito, always has his sharingan activated with little, or even none chakra spent. But yes, Kakashi's sharingan is at it's maxed.

[scallanan]

Originally Posted by Obito

Kakashi sadly isn't an Uchiha, so his sharingan is as powerful as it could be, non the less, his sharingan is complete, he's able to do Kamui, the only difference between him and Obito is that Obito is a full blooded Uchiha, his prowess with the Sharingan is gonna be 20x better than Kakashi's Mangekyou sharingan because Kakashi can't sustain the amount of chakra that the Sharingan uses due to him not being a full blooded Uchiha, where as Obito, always has his sharingan activated with little, or even none chakra spent. But yes, Kakashi's sharingan is at it's maxed.

Uchiha members were known to have little chakra reserves, but amazing powers (as seen with Itachi/Kisame vs Kakashi, when Kisame told Itachi he had used too much of his visual prowess and that they had to leave. Also Sasuke wasn't able to perform as many chidori's as Kakashi as a genin, and still can't do many before his chakra reserves plummet. Also, Sasuke's chakra had reached almost nothing in his fight against Itachi). Uzumaki/Senju had massive chakra reserves with less power. So I don't think it boils down to who has more chakra. Other factors are the cause of it

[Obito]

Originally Posted by scallanan

Uchiha members were known to have little chakra reserves, but amazing powers (as seen with Itachi/Kisame vs Kakashi, when Kisame told Itachi he had used too much of his visual prowess and that they had to leave. Also Sasuke wasn't able to perform as many chidori's as Kakashi as a genin, and still can't do many before his chakra reserves plummet. Also, Sasuke's chakra had reached almost nothing in his fight against Itachi). Uzumaki/Senju had massive chakra reserves with less power. So I don't think it boils down to who has more chakra. Other factors are the cause of it

That's irrelevant to Kakashi not being a full blooded Uchiha, I said if he was a full blooded Uchiha, his Sharingan prowess could be a lot better, therefore his Sharingan would be a lot better.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by scallanan

As we all know, Kakashi got his sharingan from Obito. One of the main jutsu this one particular sharingan can do is Kamui. Obito extended Kamui far enough so that he can transport parts of his own body to the Kamui realm for a period of 5min. So does that mean Kakashi could do the same, not taking into account his chakra reserves?
Also, (i'm not totally clear how the other MS powerups work) shouldn't Kakashi be able to use amaterasu/susano'o/tsukuyomi? I think susano'o needs both MS to activate, but amaterasu needs only one. Could kakashi eventually develop these skills with his MS?

... neither kakashi nor Obito can use amaterasu or Tsukuyomi...as for susanoo...it's possible if the user had both MS...but they only have one...

Amaterasu, and tsukuyomi is solely Itachi's... Though others may have MS-Genjutsu like shisui's kotoamatsukami, only Itachi has Tsukuyomi specifically... TO make sure sasuke doesn't end up awakening some dumb MS ability, Itachi forced his tsukyomi and Amaterasu into sasuke... (We have no evidence it runs through the family...that's just a conjecture)

Note: Not even madara has tsukuyomi... you don't need tsukuyomi and amaterasu to awaken susanoo (though the myth are a trio)... If madara had tsukuyomi, when he put Raikage under genjutsu (chp 588), before Onoki could have come to save the Raikage, Raikage would have been through enough torment and passed out in that 5 seconds...Based on that i deduce Madara doesn't have Tsukuyomi...

Madara may NOT even have Amaterasu (maybe) based on the fact that, zetsu, who knew madara's powers, had never seen amaterasu until Itachi used it...remember how excited he was to see it the first time...if Madara had it, white zetsu would have known about it already....

[and17y1]

Originally Posted by scallanan

As we all know, Kakashi got his sharingan from Obito. One of the main jutsu this one particular sharingan can do is Kamui. Obito extended Kamui far enough so that he can transport parts of his own body to the Kamui realm for a period of 5min. So does that mean Kakashi could do the same, not taking into account his chakra reserves?
Also, (i'm not totally clear how the other MS powerups work) shouldn't Kakashi be able to use amaterasu/susano'o/tsukuyomi? I think susano'o needs both MS to activate, but amaterasu needs only one. Could kakashi eventually develop these skills with his MS?

Here is my opinion - to be able Obito and Kakashi to use Susanoo they must be able to use tsukuyomi in the one eye and amaterasu in the other. We've seen that Obito can extinguish amaterasu but is it because he can use amaterasu (just like Sasuke) or because he teleported himself and did some trick.. cut his arm .. idk either. So we cant be 100% sure that Obito is able to use amaterasu. He didnt show any signs of being able to use Tsukuyomi either. He was shown to put in genjutsu his opponents by merely using his original sharingan. Obito is the only one who can use time migration technique because he has senju dna inside him.

But his other eye is in Kakashi right ? so when Obito gained his new time migration powers Kakashi must have got them also although with limited power in his eye. I think the reason why kakashi isnt blind but only hurt by using his Mangekyou sharingan Kamui is because his eye is connected to Obito's body which has Senju DNA which sustains the backlash effects of using mangekyou sharingan. Thats the reason why both of them havent lost their vision.

[Maruko]

Incompatible? I guess that's why he's copied 1,000 jutsus so far.

[scallanan]

@Obito Well I agree with you that being an Uchiha would make it 20x easier to do these techniques, but you stated that he wouldn't be able to fully develop it "because Kakashi can't sustain the amount of chakra that the Sharingan uses." If it boils down to chakra reserves, then Kakashi doesn't have much less than the ordinary Uchiha.

@kalmeast Ok, you seem to be right. I thought that in one of then chapters it explains that the three powers you unlock when you awaken the MS is amaterasu, susanoo and tsukuyomi. I was looking through some of the chapters but I can't find it

[kalmeast]

^ yep...susanoo solely depends on having both MS eyes..."someone who controls the double mangekyou"... therefore it's not dependent on having tsukyomi or amaterasu

[scallanan]

So those who awaken susano'o, amaterasu and tsukuyomi are considered special within the Uchiha.
You said that susano'o is not solely dependant on the amaterasu and tsukyomi, but I think this may be untrue. You said that Madara has susano'o but might not have the ability to use amaterasu and tsukuyomi because Zetsu was excited to see amaterasu for the first time when itachi used it against Sasuke, when Zetsu knew of Madara's powers. But if you see in chapter 391, at the bottom of the page where we can see Itachi's susano'o and the speech bubble says "zazuuuuuuuuuuun," zetsu is clearly shocked by seeing susano'o and thinks "What is that?" You'd think Zetsu would know about susano'o if Madara can use it! I'm also still convinced the pair of "amaterasu" and "tsukuyomi" gives a MS wielder the susano'o. I remember somewhere it saying that tsukuyomi gives illusions and amaterasu brings it to life. The pair of them creates Susano'o. I will search for a chapter number and edit this post if I can find it.

[e710]

Originally Posted by scallanan

So those who awaken susano'o, amaterasu and tsukuyomi are considered special within the Uchiha.
You said that susano'o is not solely dependant on the amaterasu and tsukyomi, but I think this may be untrue. You said that Madara has susano'o but might not have the ability to use amaterasu and tsukuyomi because Zetsu was excited to see amaterasu for the first time when itachi used it against Sasuke, when Zetsu knew of Madara's powers. But if you see in chapter 391, at the bottom of the page where we can see Itachi's susano'o and the speech bubble says "zazuuuuuuuuuuun," zetsu is clearly shocked by seeing susano'o and thinks "What is that?" You'd think Zetsu would know about susano'o if Madara can use it! I'm also still convinced the pair of "amaterasu" and "tsukuyomi" gives a MS wielder the susano'o. I remember somewhere it saying that tsukuyomi gives illusions and amaterasu brings it to life. The pair of them creates Susano'o. I will search for a chapter number and edit this post if I can find it.

I think it was when Tobi tied up Sasuke and talked to him. After Itachi died

[Obito]

Not everyone who awakens Mangekyou can use Amaterasu, Susanoo or Tsukuyomi. Shisui, the greatest Genjutsu artist in the Uchiha clan's history in Naruto's history only knew one jutsu, KA.
As I was saying, Kakashi's not a full blooded Uchiha, so it would take more chakra to substantially use his Sharingan and even MORE to use his Mangekyou, not saying Uchiha's have more chakra, Itachi is the only one I know who had low chakra because of his sickness. I remember one episode Kakashi saying that Naruto has around 100x more chakra than he does. What I'm saying is, an Uchiha conserves his chakra using Sharingan, Kakashi doesn't have that ability which is why I said. Obito's prowess with the sharingan, JUST sharingan is 20x more than Kakashi's MANGEKYOU sharingan. But, Itachi said it himself, he uses his Sharingan well like an Uchiha, just isn't one.

[scallanan]

@e710 Looked through all these chapters and can't find any info on it

@Obito Ok I see where you're coming from now. Itachi actually mentions something about it during his fight against kakashi in part 1

[SenjuUchiha]

Well, not being of uchiha blood, i cna imagine that amaterasu and tsukyomi would burn out his chakra reserves completely. since he isnt an uchiha the sharingan will consume more of his chakra.

[scallanan]

^ Yes, I agree now

[Hawks]

Originally Posted by scallanan

Uchiha members were known to have little chakra reserves, but amazing powers (as seen with Itachi/Kisame vs Kakashi, when Kisame told Itachi he had used too much of his visual prowess and that they had to leave. Also Sasuke wasn't able to perform as many chidori's as Kakashi as a genin, and still can't do many before his chakra reserves plummet. Also, Sasuke's chakra had reached almost nothing in his fight against Itachi). Uzumaki/Senju had massive chakra reserves with less power. So I don't think it boils down to who has more chakra. Other factors are the cause of it

I think Sasuke's chakra reserves are actually higher than Kakashis. Kakashi as a Jounin in his 20s said he could only use chidori 4 times a day, while Sasuke could already do 2 at age 12. We don't know how many times a day Kakashi could do it as a genin.

In Itachi's case, I think his personal chakra reserves just aren't that high. When Kisame told him he had used too much visual prowess, I think he just said that because he knows using the Mangekyou Sharingan too much will make you go blind.