Could our World learn from Takeda and Kenshin?

[Vivi]

Cause I really found this interesting, actually kinda moved me to see such tremendous respect and honour in War.

Although Shingen and Kenshin were rivals for more than fourteen years, they are known to have exchanged gifts a number of times, most famously when Shingen gave away a precious sword, which he valued greatly, to Kenshin. When Shingen died in 1573, Kenshin was said to have wept aloud at the loss of so worthy an adversary, and dismissed advice from his retainers to use the opportunity to attack as childish. Shingen, on his deathbed, commended Kenshin as an honourable warrior, and instructed his son to rely upon Kenshin. The two sides would become allies in 3 years. In addition, there was an incident when a number of other daimyo (including the Hojo) boycotted salt supplies to Kai Province. Kenshin heard of Shingen's problem with a daimyo of the Hōjō clan who refused to send rice to him. Kenshin secretly sent salt to the Takeda (salt was a precious commodity as it was used in preserving food) and wrote to his enemy, Shingen, that in his opinion, the Hōjō lord had committed a hostile act. Although he could have cut off Shingen's supplies and "lifeline", Kenshin decided not to do so because it would be dishonorable. In reflection, Kenshin made a statement "Wars are to be won with swords and spears, not with rice and salt." In this, Kenshin set a noble example for all time in his treatment of his rival Shingen. The statement is a common modern reference by peace advocates who in recognition of Kenshin state that "peace is to be achieved with rice and salt, not with swords and spears"

Kenshin is famed for his honourable conduct, his military expertise, a long-standing rivalry with Takeda Shingen, his numerous campaigns to restore order in the Kanto region as the Kanto Kanrei, and his belief in the Buddhist god of war -- Bishamonten. In fact, many of his followers and others believed him to be the Avatar of Bishamonten, and called Kenshin god of war.

[Azal]

I think that we have degraded to a point where we wouldn't be capable of learning from them.

[Vornmusion]

Modern war tactics ruined any chance of learning from this. WWII destroyed any kind of respect and dignity to war. Our goal then and more so now is to destroy people before they are even aware they have been engaged.

Which is why I still wish firearms had never been invented. Any fool can shoot someone of superior skill and kill them -- only the lucky will defeat someone in 1 vs 1 combat of martial skill if inferior. And there is something to be said for the requirement of facing the man you're trying to kill and looking into his eyes.

But that's the lot we've been cast with.

[FireShadow]

sure could haha

[Ninja of Cao]

Honor was lost from warfare as soon as melee combat was abandoned: what honor is there in killing an enemy at a distance without even looking upon his face? You are no warrior unless you can challenge a man to single combat and look into his eyes as you end his life.

I always play as Uesugi Kenshin in Shogun 2: Total War, and indeed I find this a very interesting story. I only wish that wars today could be fought with honor...

[konoha chimp]

^ So true

[Ninja of Cao]

People, what do you think about this idea?

Instead of wasting infinite money and resources on high-tech armies, those money should be put to welfare and healthcare etc. And whenever two nations wants to fight a war, they'll pick one fighter each (most preferrably the nation leaders), that will face off in single combat. That way, a war between great powers would only require one life instead of many millions. And it'd be more honorable too, since wars are disputes between nation leaders and nothing else than that. Why waste countless of innocent lives on such disputes, when it would be much less painful for the people to only see their leaders fight?

[konoha chimp]

Originally Posted by Ninja of Cao

People, what do you think about this idea?

Instead of wasting infinite money and resources on high-tech armies, those money should be put to welfare and healthcare etc. And whenever two nations want to start a war, they'll pick one fighter each (most preferrably the nation leaders), that will face off in single combat. That way, a war between great powers would only require one life instead of many millions. And it'd be more honorable too, since wars are disputes between nation leaders and nothing else than that.

While that's a good idea it wouldn't solve anything as eventually the losing side would only retaliate resulting in a full-scale war anyway, people these days lack the integrity for such solutions.
I wish guns never existed and people could only settle disputes the old fashioned way with swords/fists.

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by konoha chimp

While that's a good idea it wouldn't solve anything as eventually the losing side would only retaliate resulting in a full-scale war anyway, people these days lack the integrity for such solutions.
I wish guns never existed and people could only settle disputes the old fashioned way with swords/fists.

It would be a much better way to wage war, anyway. And every country would be equal since resources would not matter. But most importantly, wars would be less bloody. For example, imagine what damage an all-out war between Russia and the United States would cause to the world. Compare that to a sword duel between Vladimir Putin and Barack Obama.

I vote for duels rather than war any day. Taken that those duels solve the disputes, of course. But if a government had any honour whatsoever they would accept the terms of the duels, would they not?

[konoha chimp]

Yeah you're completely right but, that's the problem governments don't care about or concern themselves with honour sadly

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by konoha chimp

Yeah you're completely right but, that's the problem governments don't care about or concern themselves with honour sadly

I DEMAND HONOR!!! *makes an epic pose wearing samurai armor and holding a katana*

[konoha chimp]

xD so do I! screw it we should just make our own clan unify a country and declare a war of honour on the rest of the world xD

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by konoha chimp

xD so do I! screw it we should just make our own clan unify a country and declare a war of honour on the rest of the world xD

Yes... but the rest of the world is honorless, and honorless warfare will (unfortunately) almost always beat honorable warfare...

[konoha chimp]

Yeah you got a point there, I guess the world is always going to be stuck this way

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by konoha chimp

Yeah you got a point there, I guess the world is always going to be stuck this way

Unless we use the dishonorable method to kill everyone who defy the code of honor... which would require genocide on about 6,999,000,000 people... assuming that there are as many as a million honorable people in this world. But I don't want to kill innocent civilians, so let's just create our own country where we can use honor inside our borders

[konoha chimp]

Yes sounds like a plan! now we just need to find a country xD

[Ninja of Cao]

Originally Posted by konoha chimp

Yes sounds like a plan! now we just need to find a country xD

Let's look upon the facts:

• A country with a dishonorable, firearm-equipped military will easily defeat us.
• A coup would be impossible in any EU or NATO member state, and we should also avoid any organized democracies.
• Because of the above two points, we should aim for a country that has no allies nor a military of its own.
• For this purpose I recommend a random, isolated island nation somewhere in the Pacific Ocean or the Caribbean Sea.
• We must be prepared to face resistance from police and perhaps armed populance.