Spoiler: Rin not dead the way you know.

Shisko Shi · 04-04-2013, 11:25 PM

I just releaised something guys. I do not think we know what we think.. Old Kishi pulled a Genjutsu on us.

Obito died I wanna say years befor what I stated as look at Kakashi's heigth and Rin and Kakashi's cloths.

Fast forward Guy and Kakashi are taller, diffrent cloths.

Notic when just before OBito leaves. Madaras Sharingan is out. He is clearly an expert in it. Then the Zetsu's are there.

Now look at Rin, and Kakashi. They are not the same as before. They look just like they did when they were younger when Obito "Died"

Kakashi does not have his vest. His head band a little diffrent. He is not seen with it. He does not have the fish net on his legs.

Now He also asked where Minato was.

Zetsu reply's, "Who?"

Obito: "The Yellow Flash!"

Zetsu: "Oh umm... I think he is on a diffrent mission."

That seems fishy.

How do they not know this and that Kakashi and rin are wearing their old cloths? Why is their vest gone?

If this is after Kakashi and Guys together time as seen in Episode 288, Then something is not right.

Now the animation company does have contact and has to get premissionvto prevent screwing up the main plot. What if Kishi said go for it?

Then Obito before arrivning see's that is begins to rain. Then Zetsus body is on him. Finally MAdaras eye.

At anytime he could have casted a genjutsu. Then the two zetsu's being connected could easly able to use Gen on Obito through touch. As gen can be casted just by a light source.

The Rain also could be a plot.

Then that area that Zetsu some how knows the exact location is where the rain is. So that could have been an invisable barrier that was a genjutsu.

Sure Rin I am sure died, but maybe by something diffrent. Does it not seem weired that Kakashi happens to pass out and kill rin being shorter with no head band like he normally does and his old cloths?

Also the Knife/sword his dad gave him was destroyed in that same battle that him and Obito worked to gethe rlast against wanna be afro samurai.

So why would he equip the Scabber? Or in other words the Sheeth?

The entire time that happend makes no seanse.

Now I am not good with Theroys, but I think I am on something.

Also Those "Ninja" Went down pretty fast, they could also be clones, Genjutsu, or Zetsu;s.

Sure we know only of 2...... WE only know.

Also When Kakashi is told, Obito replys,

"Because you LET Rin die"

Not you killed her, but you let her die.

He might have figured something out later.

If you read that talk about him saying you let rin diue, he goes on to say he does not blame for what is basicly reality. He blames reality. Hince why he agrees to the Moon Eye plan. His new reality Rin never died.

Tell me what you guys think. I think that flash back is wrong in everyway. As That is NOT Kakashi. It is only hi mand RIn? What about Guy? What about Minato? Soemthins is wrong.

What do you guys think?

Raiden · 04-04-2013, 11:28 PM

Hmm, all I can say is let's wait and see.

Shisko Shi · 04-04-2013, 11:36 PM

But it makes seanse doesn't? How nothing fits. The height, cloths, The White Chakra blade Sheath, The head,band, ect.

Raiden · 04-04-2013, 11:38 PM

Yeah, I agree on some of the points like the Height and cloths, I do hope they explain more on Rin, because that really needs some shedding.

Kakashi Hatake_Yamato · 04-04-2013, 11:56 PM

Thinking it's just Kishi's own confusion of time and what happens in his manga.

Shisko Shi · 04-05-2013, 12:00 AM

Oh come one... It all peices to gether. Nothing about that made sense. That had to be fake.

Or his wife wrote it.

Shisko Shi · 04-05-2013, 12:16 AM

Also look at his mask. There is a cut from when he got the scare... Hmm. Henever replaced it? Yea I doubt that. This is fake, that never happened. This does not add up. Obito was under Genjutsu to get him over.

Madara even said. "You will thank me when you come back." Right after he asked why he was leaving. Because Obito was his ticket to be brought back to life and at a young age instead of that old man statues.

ThisIsMyNinjaWay · 04-05-2013, 01:38 AM

That stuck with me too, the same cloths and height when he seen Kakashi kill Rin. Also him saying "You let Rin die" seemed a lil fishy to me as well... There probably going to have some sort of flashback of stuff that were unsaid directly to us in the manga. Kishi's really good at hiding stuff undernearth other stuff. I honestly thought the whole she got kileld by him was a Genjutsu by Madara but who knows.. You make a really good point.

AeoKyn · 04-05-2013, 02:02 AM

That's a good theory

kalmeast · 04-05-2013, 02:11 AM

I really think you're on to something... i re-read all the chp involving obito...
here's what i'm thinking... if madara initially never wanted obito to go back out, why'd the zetsu come and tell him that Kakashi and rin are in trouble?

like you said, why hasn't kakashi changed his torn mask... i thought he became a jonin after obito died? why isn't he wearing his uniform?

And what u said about minato being gone...

Here's the thing...if you're right then i'd say that what Obito experienced was just the glimpse of Madara's Moon genjutsu... see how confident madara was that obito would return to him? now after that he goes into this genjutsu world with obito when he said with the gedo's power, he can make anything happen in that genjutsu world, as much as making himself look young there...if he could do that, then recreating kakashi, Rin and all those mist ninja is a small business...

So I think this theory isn't far-fetched at all... it's actually a great observation...

AeoKyn · 04-05-2013, 05:05 AM

which chapter does obito start on? I want to check that out

DrKage · 04-05-2013, 05:54 AM

I think discussions at the time, me especially, centered on whether Madara set all this up for Obito's "benefit".

Mangetsu Hozuki · 04-05-2013, 07:07 AM

Well, supposedly, Kakashi got his own MS not because Obito got it, but because he was traumatized by the fact that he killed Rin himself. So unless Madara put Kakashi under genjutsu also....

PrinceofPeace · 04-05-2013, 08:07 AM

Just a few points

-madara always has his sharigan out

-the who is minato and oh he is on a mission is sketchy

-that is not genjutsu. Obito has a sharigan so he would know if he is in genjutsu. Plus a genjutsu would not have that far of a range. Plus we are talking about madara. An uchiha legend. If he used genjutsu then it would have had ever detail

-don't use anime as a reference

-most people are familiar with nicknames.
For example: I know the rock(the wrestler) but I often forget his real name
At school we have nicknames. Like my name is speedy and ppl who don't really know me call me that cuz they don't know my real name

-zetsu is an expert at getting data quickly

-those rain ninja were fodder. Of course they would go down easily. After all they can't hit him.

-the rain ninja were real because the leaf checked out the bodies and took kakashi back. If they were zetsu then they could not do lighting blade or have a sharigan transform. Plus the rain ninja would have turned back into zetsu after death

-if madara could control and fool him with genjutsu he would have done it to him and the zetsu from the get-go. Also he would have done it now to force him to make him human. Only koto is that strong of a genjutsu for it to work that well and be so effective

-kakashi KILLED RIN! That is the only way he could have gotten MS and for obito to get MS. Plus kakashi would not have felt so guilty.

-kakashi is taller than RIN. He was just lunging so it looks he is shorter

-why would the zetsu be concerned about runs body

-there are not that many zetsu to act as the rain

-chp 240 pg 11-he says yellow flash and does not call him minato

-madara would not have to go so low as to use the sharigan. He did not even use MS.

-it is possible kakashi did not go back to the village or that he did not take his sheath off

Good effort

DrKage · 04-05-2013, 08:19 AM

A couple of points:
1. Having a sharingan doesn't mean you can't be able to be put under genjutsu. It might make it easier to recognize after a while if you are under one and definitely make it easier to recognize if someone else is under one, but it doesn't prevent you from being put under genjutsu.

2. All those points about the rain and leaf ninja were from Obito's POV if i remember correctly so they would have been part of the deception, genjutsu or transformed zetsu clones whatever.

Shisko Shi · 04-05-2013, 11:01 AM

-madara always has his sharigan out
That means nothing, That means he can cast it.

-the who is minato and oh he is on a mission is sketchy
It is fishy.

-that is not genjutsu. Obito has a sharigan so he would know if he is in genjutsu. Plus a genjutsu would not have that far of a range. Plus we are talking about madara. An uchiha legend. If he used genjutsu then it would have had ever detail

Just because he also has a Sharingan does not mean he can not be under it... Sasuke has been under it also, Kakashi has been under it. Obito vs Madara in eyes and him being worried is proof he lets his guard down.
-don't use anime as a reference

I can and will as this is not a batlle in Battleground and the animation company has to approve of all the stuff they show as not to mess with the plot in anyway. So this is a possible hint from him allowed by the Animation company.

-most people are familiar with nicknames.
For example: I know the rock(the wrestler) but I often forget his real name
At school we have nicknames. Like my name is speedy and ppl who don't really know me call me that cuz they don't know my real name
What does this have to do with anything?

-zetsu is an expert at getting data quickly
He can also fake it.

-those rain ninja were fodder. Of course they would go down easily. After all they can't hit him.
Then that makes no sense as he gets better and all of a sudden can easly take them out? No it is a possible Genjutus. Madara as been around a long time and can use a powerful genjutsu we know nothing about.

-the rain ninja were real because the leaf checked out the bodies and took kakashi back. If they were zetsu then they could not do lighting blade or have a sharigan transform. Plus the rain ninja would have turned back into zetsu after death
Can you please explain when they said, "Here is kakashi and some how there wher rain ninja all beat up.

I never seen this please explain.

-if madara could control and fool him with genjutsu he would have done it to him and the zetsu from the get-go. Also he would have done it now to force him to make him human. Only koto is that strong of a genjutsu for it to work that well and be so effective
YOu clearly did not read, I said the he could have done it from the moment he left the cave or when he first met him. Also For all you know, Zetsu can use touch Genjutsu. It does not have to be a light, sound nor eye, it can be touch.

-kakashi KILLED RIN! That is the only way he could have gotten MS and for obito to get MS. Plus kakashi would not have felt so guilty.
No, you do not have to get it just from that. Nor did he have a complete Sharingan. That could have been a genjutsu like I said and Rin died later.

If Rin and kakshi are shown in episode 288 as chunin and jonin taller and all. Then why would Kishi allow that? That would conflict with his plot and ruin it.

There for that is incorrect.

To get the MS you have to feel the emotion of the closest person dieing.

To obito in Genjutsu would be Kakashi killing her.

Kakashi from maybe her dying the real way is what got him. So that is not really the best thing to go by POP.

-kakashi is taller than RIN. He was just lunging so it looks he is shorter
I never said he was shorter then her. I said THEY are shorter, clearly unless you are stuiped you know that he is lunging. They are in there old rags.

-why would the zetsu be concerned about runs body
Rin, her name is Rin. Why? Gentjutsu, to get him to blelive and have hatred, forcing him to want to do the moo neye plan as to have her in the new world of genjutsu. That is why.

-there are not that many zetsu to act as the rain
And you know this out? Umm lets see a tree that MAdara is connected through by Hashirama's DNA and he has two alread. So explain how he could not have made more.... Once again or Genjutus. this is a theroy.

-chp 240 pg 11-he says yellow flash and does not call him minato
No he calls him Sensai Minato, Then they do not know who it is, so he says The Yellow flash. So what does this mean? I already said yellow flash. First he said Minato then YF. Go re-read....

-madara would not have to go so low as to use the sharigan. He did not even use MS.
Thatr is what you think. Wgat makes you think that? He even said that he would be back and then the thanking would be for later if none. Boom Genjutsu through, rain, Zetsu body, or eye.

If you look at Kakashi and Rin they are the same. There is no way that is possible. Sure he might have seen her die. That is all but we have no real proof he killed rin.. Just looking at their appearance is proof enough. Or you can be oblivios to it and ignore it.

-it is possible kakashi did not go back to the village or that he did not take his sheath off
I hope this is a joke... This is months later.. maybe a year. Look at Obito, he is clealry diffrent. SO I doubt Kakashi and Rin stayed there that long. No that is fake.

Next comeback from you.

Shisko Shi · 04-05-2013, 11:02 AM

A couple of points:
1. Having a sharingan doesn't mean you can't be able to be put under genjutsu. It might make it easier to recognize after a while if you are under one and definitely make it easier to recognize if someone else is under one, but it doesn't prevent you from being put under genjutsu.

Yes, but he culd have casted it at anytime. Obito being afraid of Rin dying is perfect to get him under it.

2. All those points about the rain and leaf ninja were from Obito's POV if i remember correctly so they would have been part of the deception, genjutsu or transformed zetsu clones whatever.

That is my point.

PrinceofPeace · 04-05-2013, 12:45 PM

Spoiler:

-madara always has his sharigan out
That means nothing, That means he can cast it.
Okay....but that does not mean he DID use it.
Look we both dont have proof on if he did or not.
All I am saying is that just because we saw his sharigan does not mean anything cuz he has it out 24/7

-that is not genjutsu. Obito has a sharigan so he would know if he is in genjutsu. Plus a genjutsu would not have that far of a range. Plus we are talking about madara. An uchiha legend. If he used genjutsu then it would have had ever detail

Just because he also has a Sharingan does not mean he can not be under it...
Sasuke has been under it also, Kakashi has been under it. Obito vs Madara in eyes and him being worried is proof he lets his guard down.
agreed but you did not respond to my other points. This is MADARA! His genjutsu would not miss a thing. When has a genjutsu failed in detail..NEVER! You are seriously underestimating Madara if you think he made a genjutsu mistake.

-don't use anime as a reference

I can and will as this is not a batlle in Battleground and the animation company has to approve of all the stuff they show as not to mess with the plot in anyway. So this is a possible hint from him allowed by the Animation company.
No its not. Animation makes mistakes a lot. Its not just in the BG's. The animation and Kishi worked in totally sepearte areas. They do not need approval of Kishi.I suppose you want some proof of to why the anime is wrong and not EXACTLy like the manga.
-When Kakashi Hatake uses this in the anime, Itachi Uchiha claims that the mist does not prevent him from using his Sharingan, contradicting both the manga and earlier anime scenes
-Kabuto using Hiding with Camouflage Technique(only in anime not manga)
-EVERY AND ALL FILLERS
-Obito using the wac-a-mole technique
-dediara escaping out of Kankuro's puppets and causing more trouble
-EVERY AND ALL OVA's AND MOVIES
The point is the anime does not go just like the manga. Come on I know you already know this. There are extra jutsu and words said and actions that happen and are added into the anime that are not in the Manga.
The anime is invalid.

-most people are familiar with nicknames.
For example: I know the rock(the wrestler) but I often forget his real name
At school we have nicknames. Like my name is speedy and ppl who don't really know me call me that cuz they don't know my real name
What does this have to do with anything?
I am saying that it is not uncommon for Zetsu to know who the "Yellow Flash" is and not minato. What do you need a Narutoverse reference? Well the fodder iwa ninja called him by his nickname and not his real name.

-zetsu is an expert at getting data quickly
He can also fake it.
Okay ....or he could tell the truth

-those rain ninja were fodder. Of course they would go down easily. After all they can't hit him.
Then that makes no sense as he gets better and all of a sudden can easly take them out? No it is a possible Genjutus. Madara as been around a long time and can use a powerful genjutsu we know nothing about.
Obito has one of the most powerful occular jutsu ever. It is totally OP so he can still win. It is possible.You are active in RP so you should know. Give a noob something that is OP/GM/TM and even the best Rp'r would not be able to beat them. how would you beat someone that you have no info on? All of your attacks go right through. And the only way to hit him is with a shargian...which you dont have!!
Answer:You DONT!
Obito was enraged with a powerful sharigan and wood style. You dont have to be a hokage to do what he did with that kind of power.
And only Koto would be that strong of a genjutsu. Obito and Madara were far away from each other and genjutsu do not last that long that far away. Especially when Madara is in that weakened state.

-the rain ninja were real because the leaf checked out the bodies and took kakashi back. If they were zetsu then they could not do lighting blade or have a sharigan transform. Plus the rain ninja would have turned back into zetsu after death
Can you please explain when they said, "Here is kakashi and some how there wher rain ninja all beat up.
who said that? What chp?

-if madara could control and fool him with genjutsu he would have done it to him and the zetsu from the get-go. Also he would have done it now to force him to make him human. Only koto is that strong of a genjutsu for it to work that well and be so effective
YOu clearly did not read, I said the he could have done it from the moment he left the cave or when he first met him. Also For all you know, Zetsu can use touch Genjutsu. It does not have to be a light, sound nor eye, it can be touch.
Yes but for all you know they can not do that. And yes Madara COULD have used genjutsu from the get-go but when Obito left he would have been too far away and too much time would have passed for a genjutsu to have still be active. Plus Obito would be able to look at himself with the sharigan and tell he was in genjutsu.

-kakashi KILLED RIN! That is the only way he could have gotten MS and for obito to get MS. Plus kakashi would not have felt so guilty.
No, you do not have to get it just from that. Nor did he have a complete Sharingan. That could have been a genjutsu like I said and Rin died later.
how else do you get the MS? One would have to kill who is most dear to him. That is how everyone got the MS. So the genjutsu made Obito get the MS? Your kidding right? Then Oro would have done that to Saskue ages ago.

If Rin and kakshi are shown in episode 288 as chunin and jonin taller and all. Then why would Kishi allow that? That would conflict with his plot and ruin it.

There for that is incorrect.
In the anime is Rin the tallest?
It is not a major plot hole. The anime is always wrong.
For exxample when Obito was falling into the pit he revealed his 3 tomoe sharigan. And we all know that Obito has to use MS to be intangiable. He has to switch which is never shown in the anime. Thus it is not reliable. This is not a major mistake because it reallynever happened

To get the MS you have to feel the emotion of the closest person dieing.
And the genjutsu would have not made it true because it was FALSE
Kakashi killed rin to give both obito and rin the MS
Itachi killed Shshi to get MS
Saskue killed Itachi to get MS
Everyone killed their loved ones to be close to them
To obito in Genjutsu would be Kakashi killing her.

Kakashi from maybe her dying the real way is what got him. So that is not really the best thing to go by POP.
Name someone who got MS besides your example who DID NOT kill there best friend to get MS.

-kakashi is taller than RIN. He was just lunging so it looks he is shorter
I never said he was shorter then her. I said THEY are shorter, clearly unless you are stuiped you know that he is lunging. They are in there old rags.
SO what does height matter?

-why would the zetsu be concerned about runs body
Rin, her name is Rin. Why? Gentjutsu, to get him to blelive and have hatred, forcing him to want to do the moo neye plan as to have her in the new world of genjutsu. That is why.
Obito got to the body anyway. nothing happened.

-there are not that many zetsu to act as the rain
And you know this out? Umm lets see a tree that MAdara is connected through by Hashirama's DNA and he has two alread. So explain how he could not have made more.... Once again or Genjutus. this is a theroy.
lol so what are you saying? that madara was constantly using genjutsu after genjutsu?

-chp 240 pg 11-he says yellow flash and does not call him minato
No he calls him Sensai Minato, Then they do not know who it is, so he says The Yellow flash. So what does this mean? I already said yellow flash. First he said Minato then YF. Go re-read....
Who are you talking about?
I am talking about the fodder Iwa ninja. He never class him minato. What pg does he call him Minato?

-madara would not have to go so low as to use the sharigan. He did not even use MS.
Thatr is what you think. Wgat makes you think that? He even said that he would be back and then the thanking would be for later if none. Boom Genjutsu through, rain, Zetsu body, or eye.
it was foreshadowing and he made no sign or effort to use genjutsu
If you look at Kakashi and Rin they are the same. There is no way that is possible. Sure he might have seen her die. That is all but we have no real proof he killed rin.. Just looking at their appearance is proof enough. Or you can be oblivios to it and ignore it.
what proof there is barely any that he used genjutsu its just a theory

-it is possible kakashi did not go back to the village or that he did not take his sheath off
I hope this is a joke... This is months later.. maybe a year. Look at Obito, he is clealry diffrent. SO I doubt Kakashi and Rin stayed there that long. No that is fake.
They are still in war. Your just assumign they went back to the village

Next comeback from you

FYI-
I am not really going to debate this with you. There is no real winner or loser here.

This is open to litterally everything. Anyone can assume they are right or wrong but there is barely any proof to suppor it.

I crossed out things that were pure assumptions and thories that I did not really enjoy talking about because it was useless. But there are some points in your argument that i am strongly against.

I dont like when people say
"Oh of course it has to be genjutsu"
It's just silly to me lol. That is like saying that if you can not explain soething in the real world its magic, or aliens, or a gods work. Lol

yes you could be right and I could be wrong. And if it comes down to that which I really hope it does not because it would be very lame and un-original and I KNOW Kishi is better than that. Just remind me that you were right and I will give you your props and admit your right...maybe even rep you.

But the genjutus theory has always been used in everything that can not be explained. It typical and it never really happens. And for Obito to go all these years just by a genjutsu is wiggidy WACK.

So I believe what happened happened. Sorry if I offended you are anything. It's just a typical played out theory

Idekal · 04-05-2013, 12:48 PM

I reckon that she really died because she committed suicide.
The only thing i have to back this up is Obito's words saying "You let her die"
It wasn't "You killed her" or "You let her be killed"
I just doesn't seem like she would be murdered.

PrinceofPeace · 04-05-2013, 12:57 PM

its the same thing.
"You killed her"
"You let her die"

The only reason why Obito said the 2nd one because they promised Kakashi would not let her die

04-04-2013, 11:25 PM	#1
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,032 Rep Power: 15	Rin not dead the way you know. I just releaised something guys. I do not think we know what we think.. Old Kishi pulled a Genjutsu on us. Obito died I wanna say years befor what I stated as look at Kakashi's heigth and Rin and Kakashi's cloths. Fast forward Guy and Kakashi are taller, diffrent cloths. Notic when just before OBito leaves. Madaras Sharingan is out. He is clearly an expert in it. Then the Zetsu's are there. Now look at Rin, and Kakashi. They are not the same as before. They look just like they did when they were younger when Obito "Died" Kakashi does not have his vest. His head band a little diffrent. He is not seen with it. He does not have the fish net on his legs. Now He also asked where Minato was. Zetsu reply's, "Who?" Obito: "The Yellow Flash!" Zetsu: "Oh umm... I think he is on a diffrent mission." That seems fishy. How do they not know this and that Kakashi and rin are wearing their old cloths? Why is their vest gone? If this is after Kakashi and Guys together time as seen in Episode 288, Then something is not right. Now the animation company does have contact and has to get premissionvto prevent screwing up the main plot. What if Kishi said go for it? Then Obito before arrivning see's that is begins to rain. Then Zetsus body is on him. Finally MAdaras eye. At anytime he could have casted a genjutsu. Then the two zetsu's being connected could easly able to use Gen on Obito through touch. As gen can be casted just by a light source. The Rain also could be a plot. Then that area that Zetsu some how knows the exact location is where the rain is. So that could have been an invisable barrier that was a genjutsu. Sure Rin I am sure died, but maybe by something diffrent. Does it not seem weired that Kakashi happens to pass out and kill rin being shorter with no head band like he normally does and his old cloths? Also the Knife/sword his dad gave him was destroyed in that same battle that him and Obito worked to gethe rlast against wanna be afro samurai. So why would he equip the Scabber? Or in other words the Sheeth? The entire time that happend makes no seanse. Now I am not good with Theroys, but I think I am on something. Also Those "Ninja" Went down pretty fast, they could also be clones, Genjutsu, or Zetsu;s. Sure we know only of 2...... WE only know. Also When Kakashi is told, Obito replys, "Because you LET Rin die" Not you killed her, but you let her die. He might have figured something out later. If you read that talk about him saying you let rin diue, he goes on to say he does not blame for what is basicly reality. He blames reality. Hince why he agrees to the Moon Eye plan. His new reality Rin never died. Tell me what you guys think. I think that flash back is wrong in everyway. As That is NOT Kakashi. It is only hi mand RIn? What about Guy? What about Minato? Soemthins is wrong. What do you guys think? __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Shisko Shi; 04-05-2013 at 12:02 AM.

04-04-2013, 11:28 PM	#2
Raiden Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: May 2009 Location: Necrology Ruins Posts: 8,591 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Rin not dead they way you know. Hmm, all I can say is let's wait and see. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You don't know what it's like to hate. To have your entire life become nothing more than an expression of hate. Nothing else matters. Nothing else can compare. Or taste as sweet. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-04-2013, 11:36 PM	#3
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,032 Rep Power: 15	Re: Rin not dead they way you know. But it makes seanse doesn't? How nothing fits. The height, cloths, The White Chakra blade Sheath, The head,band, ect. __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-04-2013, 11:38 PM	#4
Raiden Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: May 2009 Location: Necrology Ruins Posts: 8,591 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Rin not dead they way you know. Yeah, I agree on some of the points like the Height and cloths, I do hope they explain more on Rin, because that really needs some shedding. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You don't know what it's like to hate. To have your entire life become nothing more than an expression of hate. Nothing else matters. Nothing else can compare. Or taste as sweet. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 12:00 AM	#6
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,032 Rep Power: 15	Re: Rin not dead they way you know. Oh come one... It all peices to gether. Nothing about that made sense. That had to be fake. Or his wife wrote it. __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 12:16 AM	#7
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,032 Rep Power: 15	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. Also look at his mask. There is a cut from when he got the scare... Hmm. Henever replaced it? Yea I doubt that. This is fake, that never happened. This does not add up. Obito was under Genjutsu to get him over. Madara even said. "You will thank me when you come back." Right after he asked why he was leaving. Because Obito was his ticket to be brought back to life and at a young age instead of that old man statues. __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 01:38 AM	#8
ThisIsMyNinjaWay Academy Graduate Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Amazon.com Posts: 99 Rep Power: 1	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. That stuck with me too, the same cloths and height when he seen Kakashi kill Rin. Also him saying "You let Rin die" seemed a lil fishy to me as well... There probably going to have some sort of flashback of stuff that were unsaid directly to us in the manga. Kishi's really good at hiding stuff undernearth other stuff. I honestly thought the whole she got kileld by him was a Genjutsu by Madara but who knows.. You make a really good point.

04-05-2013, 02:11 AM	#10
kalmeast Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Yttik A Ni Neddih Egalliv Posts: 2,775 Rep Power: 15 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. I really think you're on to something... i re-read all the chp involving obito... here's what i'm thinking... if madara initially never wanted obito to go back out, why'd the zetsu come and tell him that Kakashi and rin are in trouble? like you said, why hasn't kakashi changed his torn mask... i thought he became a jonin after obito died? why isn't he wearing his uniform? And what u said about minato being gone... Here's the thing...if you're right then i'd say that what Obito experienced was just the glimpse of Madara's Moon genjutsu... see how confident madara was that obito would return to him? now after that he goes into this genjutsu world with obito when he said with the gedo's power, he can make anything happen in that genjutsu world, as much as making himself look young there...if he could do that, then recreating kakashi, Rin and all those mist ninja is a small business... So I think this theory isn't far-fetched at all... it's actually a great observation... __________________ Hashi's DNA + FTG = Time Travel To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. When Rikoudo Entered Sage Mode, His Hair Changed To Dreadlocks. Critic: "Your S1 alludes to Beethoven's "fate" Brahms: "any ass can see that"... such class of reverence Last edited by kalmeast; 04-05-2013 at 02:13 AM.

04-05-2013, 05:54 AM	#12
DrKage Genin Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 350 Rep Power: 3	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. I think discussions at the time, me especially, centered on whether Madara set all this up for Obito's "benefit".

04-05-2013, 07:07 AM	#13
Mangetsu Hozuki Chunin Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Netherworld. Or school, either one. Posts: 956 Rep Power: 3	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. Well, supposedly, Kakashi got his own MS not because Obito got it, but because he was traumatized by the fact that he killed Rin himself. So unless Madara put Kakashi under genjutsu also.... __________________ Ranger of The Night's Watch For Castle Black! Village Hidden in Blood *Officially a cat-addict.* To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Spoiler: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 08:07 AM	#14
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,478 Rep Power: 8	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. Just a few points -madara always has his sharigan out -the who is minato and oh he is on a mission is sketchy -that is not genjutsu. Obito has a sharigan so he would know if he is in genjutsu. Plus a genjutsu would not have that far of a range. Plus we are talking about madara. An uchiha legend. If he used genjutsu then it would have had ever detail -don't use anime as a reference -most people are familiar with nicknames. For example: I know the rock(the wrestler) but I often forget his real name At school we have nicknames. Like my name is speedy and ppl who don't really know me call me that cuz they don't know my real name -zetsu is an expert at getting data quickly -those rain ninja were fodder. Of course they would go down easily. After all they can't hit him. -the rain ninja were real because the leaf checked out the bodies and took kakashi back. If they were zetsu then they could not do lighting blade or have a sharigan transform. Plus the rain ninja would have turned back into zetsu after death -if madara could control and fool him with genjutsu he would have done it to him and the zetsu from the get-go. Also he would have done it now to force him to make him human. Only koto is that strong of a genjutsu for it to work that well and be so effective -kakashi KILLED RIN! That is the only way he could have gotten MS and for obito to get MS. Plus kakashi would not have felt so guilty. -kakashi is taller than RIN. He was just lunging so it looks he is shorter -why would the zetsu be concerned about runs body -there are not that many zetsu to act as the rain -chp 240 pg 11-he says yellow flash and does not call him minato -madara would not have to go so low as to use the sharigan. He did not even use MS. -it is possible kakashi did not go back to the village or that he did not take his sheath off Good effort __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) Saskue: Pshh destroying the leaf. B!tch please that is soooo 4 chapters ago Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 08:19 AM	#15
DrKage Genin Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 350 Rep Power: 3	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. A couple of points: 1. Having a sharingan doesn't mean you can't be able to be put under genjutsu. It might make it easier to recognize after a while if you are under one and definitely make it easier to recognize if someone else is under one, but it doesn't prevent you from being put under genjutsu. 2. All those points about the rain and leaf ninja were from Obito's POV if i remember correctly so they would have been part of the deception, genjutsu or transformed zetsu clones whatever.

04-05-2013, 11:01 AM	#16
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,032 Rep Power: 15	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. -madara always has his sharigan out That means nothing, That means he can cast it. -the who is minato and oh he is on a mission is sketchy It is fishy. -that is not genjutsu. Obito has a sharigan so he would know if he is in genjutsu. Plus a genjutsu would not have that far of a range. Plus we are talking about madara. An uchiha legend. If he used genjutsu then it would have had ever detail Just because he also has a Sharingan does not mean he can not be under it... Sasuke has been under it also, Kakashi has been under it. Obito vs Madara in eyes and him being worried is proof he lets his guard down. -don't use anime as a reference I can and will as this is not a batlle in Battleground and the animation company has to approve of all the stuff they show as not to mess with the plot in anyway. So this is a possible hint from him allowed by the Animation company. -most people are familiar with nicknames. For example: I know the rock(the wrestler) but I often forget his real name At school we have nicknames. Like my name is speedy and ppl who don't really know me call me that cuz they don't know my real name What does this have to do with anything? -zetsu is an expert at getting data quickly He can also fake it. -those rain ninja were fodder. Of course they would go down easily. After all they can't hit him. Then that makes no sense as he gets better and all of a sudden can easly take them out? No it is a possible Genjutus. Madara as been around a long time and can use a powerful genjutsu we know nothing about. -the rain ninja were real because the leaf checked out the bodies and took kakashi back. If they were zetsu then they could not do lighting blade or have a sharigan transform. Plus the rain ninja would have turned back into zetsu after death Can you please explain when they said, "Here is kakashi and some how there wher rain ninja all beat up. I never seen this please explain. -if madara could control and fool him with genjutsu he would have done it to him and the zetsu from the get-go. Also he would have done it now to force him to make him human. Only koto is that strong of a genjutsu for it to work that well and be so effective YOu clearly did not read, I said the he could have done it from the moment he left the cave or when he first met him. Also For all you know, Zetsu can use touch Genjutsu. It does not have to be a light, sound nor eye, it can be touch. -kakashi KILLED RIN! That is the only way he could have gotten MS and for obito to get MS. Plus kakashi would not have felt so guilty. No, you do not have to get it just from that. Nor did he have a complete Sharingan. That could have been a genjutsu like I said and Rin died later. If Rin and kakshi are shown in episode 288 as chunin and jonin taller and all. Then why would Kishi allow that? That would conflict with his plot and ruin it. There for that is incorrect. To get the MS you have to feel the emotion of the closest person dieing. To obito in Genjutsu would be Kakashi killing her. Kakashi from maybe her dying the real way is what got him. So that is not really the best thing to go by POP. -kakashi is taller than RIN. He was just lunging so it looks he is shorter I never said he was shorter then her. I said THEY are shorter, clearly unless you are stuiped you know that he is lunging. They are in there old rags. -why would the zetsu be concerned about runs body Rin, her name is Rin. Why? Gentjutsu, to get him to blelive and have hatred, forcing him to want to do the moo neye plan as to have her in the new world of genjutsu. That is why. -there are not that many zetsu to act as the rain And you know this out? Umm lets see a tree that MAdara is connected through by Hashirama's DNA and he has two alread. So explain how he could not have made more.... Once again or Genjutus. this is a theroy. -chp 240 pg 11-he says yellow flash and does not call him minato No he calls him Sensai Minato, Then they do not know who it is, so he says The Yellow flash. So what does this mean? I already said yellow flash. First he said Minato then YF. Go re-read.... -madara would not have to go so low as to use the sharigan. He did not even use MS. Thatr is what you think. Wgat makes you think that? He even said that he would be back and then the thanking would be for later if none. Boom Genjutsu through, rain, Zetsu body, or eye. If you look at Kakashi and Rin they are the same. There is no way that is possible. Sure he might have seen her die. That is all but we have no real proof he killed rin.. Just looking at their appearance is proof enough. Or you can be oblivios to it and ignore it. -it is possible kakashi did not go back to the village or that he did not take his sheath off I hope this is a joke... This is months later.. maybe a year. Look at Obito, he is clealry diffrent. SO I doubt Kakashi and Rin stayed there that long. No that is fake. Next comeback from you. __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 11:02 AM	#17
Shisko Shi Shiskuh Bob Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hidding in your closet... Posts: 9,032 Rep Power: 15	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. A couple of points: 1. Having a sharingan doesn't mean you can't be able to be put under genjutsu. It might make it easier to recognize after a while if you are under one and definitely make it easier to recognize if someone else is under one, but it doesn't prevent you from being put under genjutsu. Yes, but he culd have casted it at anytime. Obito being afraid of Rin dying is perfect to get him under it. 2. All those points about the rain and leaf ninja were from Obito's POV if i remember correctly so they would have been part of the deception, genjutsu or transformed zetsu clones whatever. That is my point. __________________ Just Call Me Half-Man\|Half-Amazing Hoe✯ -JAFL ScrappY Approves To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 12:45 PM	#18
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,478 Rep Power: 8	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. Spoiler: -madara always has his sharigan out That means nothing, That means he can cast it. Okay....but that does not mean he DID use it. Look we both dont have proof on if he did or not. All I am saying is that just because we saw his sharigan does not mean anything cuz he has it out 24/7 -that is not genjutsu. Obito has a sharigan so he would know if he is in genjutsu. Plus a genjutsu would not have that far of a range. Plus we are talking about madara. An uchiha legend. If he used genjutsu then it would have had ever detail Just because he also has a Sharingan does not mean he can not be under it... Sasuke has been under it also, Kakashi has been under it. Obito vs Madara in eyes and him being worried is proof he lets his guard down. agreed but you did not respond to my other points. This is MADARA! His genjutsu would not miss a thing. When has a genjutsu failed in detail..NEVER! You are seriously underestimating Madara if you think he made a genjutsu mistake. -don't use anime as a reference I can and will as this is not a batlle in Battleground and the animation company has to approve of all the stuff they show as not to mess with the plot in anyway. So this is a possible hint from him allowed by the Animation company. No its not. Animation makes mistakes a lot. Its not just in the BG's. The animation and Kishi worked in totally sepearte areas. They do not need approval of Kishi.I suppose you want some proof of to why the anime is wrong and not EXACTLy like the manga. -When Kakashi Hatake uses this in the anime, Itachi Uchiha claims that the mist does not prevent him from using his Sharingan, contradicting both the manga and earlier anime scenes -Kabuto using Hiding with Camouflage Technique(only in anime not manga) -EVERY AND ALL FILLERS -Obito using the wac-a-mole technique -dediara escaping out of Kankuro's puppets and causing more trouble -EVERY AND ALL OVA's AND MOVIES The point is the anime does not go just like the manga. Come on I know you already know this. There are extra jutsu and words said and actions that happen and are added into the anime that are not in the Manga. The anime is invalid. -most people are familiar with nicknames. For example: I know the rock(the wrestler) but I often forget his real name At school we have nicknames. Like my name is speedy and ppl who don't really know me call me that cuz they don't know my real name What does this have to do with anything? I am saying that it is not uncommon for Zetsu to know who the "Yellow Flash" is and not minato. What do you need a Narutoverse reference? Well the fodder iwa ninja called him by his nickname and not his real name. -zetsu is an expert at getting data quickly He can also fake it. Okay ....or he could tell the truth -those rain ninja were fodder. Of course they would go down easily. After all they can't hit him. Then that makes no sense as he gets better and all of a sudden can easly take them out? No it is a possible Genjutus. Madara as been around a long time and can use a powerful genjutsu we know nothing about. Obito has one of the most powerful occular jutsu ever. It is totally OP so he can still win. It is possible.You are active in RP so you should know. Give a noob something that is OP/GM/TM and even the best Rp'r would not be able to beat them. how would you beat someone that you have no info on? All of your attacks go right through. And the only way to hit him is with a shargian...which you dont have!! Answer:You DONT! Obito was enraged with a powerful sharigan and wood style. You dont have to be a hokage to do what he did with that kind of power. And only Koto would be that strong of a genjutsu. Obito and Madara were far away from each other and genjutsu do not last that long that far away. Especially when Madara is in that weakened state. -the rain ninja were real because the leaf checked out the bodies and took kakashi back. If they were zetsu then they could not do lighting blade or have a sharigan transform. Plus the rain ninja would have turned back into zetsu after death Can you please explain when they said, "Here is kakashi and some how there wher rain ninja all beat up. who said that? What chp? -if madara could control and fool him with genjutsu he would have done it to him and the zetsu from the get-go. Also he would have done it now to force him to make him human. Only koto is that strong of a genjutsu for it to work that well and be so effective YOu clearly did not read, I said the he could have done it from the moment he left the cave or when he first met him. Also For all you know, Zetsu can use touch Genjutsu. It does not have to be a light, sound nor eye, it can be touch. Yes but for all you know they can not do that. And yes Madara COULD have used genjutsu from the get-go but when Obito left he would have been too far away and too much time would have passed for a genjutsu to have still be active. Plus Obito would be able to look at himself with the sharigan and tell he was in genjutsu. -kakashi KILLED RIN! That is the only way he could have gotten MS and for obito to get MS. Plus kakashi would not have felt so guilty. No, you do not have to get it just from that. Nor did he have a complete Sharingan. That could have been a genjutsu like I said and Rin died later. how else do you get the MS? One would have to kill who is most dear to him. That is how everyone got the MS. So the genjutsu made Obito get the MS? Your kidding right? Then Oro would have done that to Saskue ages ago. If Rin and kakshi are shown in episode 288 as chunin and jonin taller and all. Then why would Kishi allow that? That would conflict with his plot and ruin it. There for that is incorrect. In the anime is Rin the tallest? It is not a major plot hole. The anime is always wrong. For exxample when Obito was falling into the pit he revealed his 3 tomoe sharigan. And we all know that Obito has to use MS to be intangiable. He has to switch which is never shown in the anime. Thus it is not reliable. This is not a major mistake because it reallynever happened To get the MS you have to feel the emotion of the closest person dieing. And the genjutsu would have not made it true because it was FALSE Kakashi killed rin to give both obito and rin the MS Itachi killed Shshi to get MS Saskue killed Itachi to get MS Everyone killed their loved ones to be close to them To obito in Genjutsu would be Kakashi killing her. Kakashi from maybe her dying the real way is what got him. So that is not really the best thing to go by POP. Name someone who got MS besides your example who DID NOT kill there best friend to get MS. -kakashi is taller than RIN. He was just lunging so it looks he is shorter I never said he was shorter then her. I said THEY are shorter, clearly unless you are stuiped you know that he is lunging. They are in there old rags. SO what does height matter? -why would the zetsu be concerned about runs body Rin, her name is Rin. Why? Gentjutsu, to get him to blelive and have hatred, forcing him to want to do the moo neye plan as to have her in the new world of genjutsu. That is why. Obito got to the body anyway. nothing happened. -there are not that many zetsu to act as the rain And you know this out? Umm lets see a tree that MAdara is connected through by Hashirama's DNA and he has two alread. So explain how he could not have made more.... Once again or Genjutus. this is a theroy. lol so what are you saying? that madara was constantly using genjutsu after genjutsu? -chp 240 pg 11-he says yellow flash and does not call him minato No he calls him Sensai Minato, Then they do not know who it is, so he says The Yellow flash. So what does this mean? I already said yellow flash. First he said Minato then YF. Go re-read.... Who are you talking about? I am talking about the fodder Iwa ninja. He never class him minato. What pg does he call him Minato? -madara would not have to go so low as to use the sharigan. He did not even use MS. Thatr is what you think. Wgat makes you think that? He even said that he would be back and then the thanking would be for later if none. Boom Genjutsu through, rain, Zetsu body, or eye. it was foreshadowing and he made no sign or effort to use genjutsu If you look at Kakashi and Rin they are the same. There is no way that is possible. Sure he might have seen her die. That is all but we have no real proof he killed rin.. Just looking at their appearance is proof enough. Or you can be oblivios to it and ignore it. what proof there is barely any that he used genjutsu its just a theory -it is possible kakashi did not go back to the village or that he did not take his sheath off I hope this is a joke... This is months later.. maybe a year. Look at Obito, he is clealry diffrent. SO I doubt Kakashi and Rin stayed there that long. No that is fake. They are still in war. Your just assumign they went back to the village Next comeback from you FYI- I am not really going to debate this with you. There is no real winner or loser here. This is open to litterally everything. Anyone can assume they are right or wrong but there is barely any proof to suppor it. I crossed out things that were pure assumptions and thories that I did not really enjoy talking about because it was useless. But there are some points in your argument that i am strongly against. I dont like when people say "Oh of course it has to be genjutsu" It's just silly to me lol. That is like saying that if you can not explain soething in the real world its magic, or aliens, or a gods work. Lol yes you could be right and I could be wrong. And if it comes down to that which I really hope it does not because it would be very lame and un-original and I KNOW Kishi is better than that. Just remind me that you were right and I will give you your props and admit your right...maybe even rep you. But the genjutus theory has always been used in everything that can not be explained. It typical and it never really happens. And for Obito to go all these years just by a genjutsu is wiggidy WACK. So I believe what happened happened. Sorry if I offended you are anything. It's just a typical played out theory __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) Saskue: Pshh destroying the leaf. B!tch please that is soooo 4 chapters ago Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-05-2013, 12:48 PM	#19
Idekal Chunin Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Somewhere, Where is that? Posts: 981 Rep Power: 5 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. I reckon that she really died because she committed suicide. The only thing i have to back this up is Obito's words saying "You let her die" It wasn't "You killed her" or "You let her be killed" I just doesn't seem like she would be murdered.

04-05-2013, 12:57 PM	#20
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,478 Rep Power: 8	Re: Rin not dead the way you know. its the same thing. "You killed her" "You let her die" The only reason why Obito said the 2nd one because they promised Kakashi would not let her die __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) Saskue: Pshh destroying the leaf. B!tch please that is soooo 4 chapters ago Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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