Spoiler Who else is tired of the off panel defeats?

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

OK first I believe it was black Zetsu, then is was seven swordsmen, after that it was five Kage and not Guy with Killer Bee.

Quite frankly I'm tired of all these off panel battles and or defeats, I think Kishimoto's just getting lazy and it needs to stop.

Personally I hope that everything, not shown will be shown in the anime, because I want to see this stuff.

[kalmeast]

my dear huuga, sometimes, whatever is off panel isn't that important. It may be for some fans but what else can u do. It'd be unrealistic if we came back to exactly where they were...

The 7NSM - well, that i wanted to see badly.

Most importantly, don't say kishi is getting lazy. For him drawing up manga every week is a job. For you looking up manga every week is entertainment so tell me who is the lazy one here

[Kakashi Hatake_Yamato]

dont they hav the seven swordsman part as filler?

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

my dear huuga, sometimes, whatever is off panel isn't that important. It may be for some fans but what else can u do. It'd be unrealistic if we came back to exactly where they were...

The 7NSM - well, that i wanted to see badly.

Most importantly, don't say kishi is getting lazy. For him drawing up manga every week is a job. For you looking up manga every week is entertainment so tell me who is the lazy one here

Well you see this is where me and you disagree, because I write stories and draw my own comics and I don't off panel things that are important.

Now Black Zetsu, may not have been all that Important, but the 7NSM were, I mean Kakashi was supposed to be finally using his 1000 jutsu, which I remind you we never got to see.

The Five Kage vs Madara, was was important because I mean what else do I need to say to you, they are the five Kage, these are not the kind of people you just off panel defeat, especially not when they are fighting the main evil guy.

He somehow defeats Guy and Killer Bee to the point where they can't move, but somehow that is not important? Now I'll give you black Zetsu, but the rest of it, no I'm not feeling that all.

To me it just seems like he's rushing through the manga, which IMO he's been doing ever since he finished part 1.

[WishfulFairie]

In terms of manga I don't care. But I do hate off panel fights because fights are what make the anime worth watching

Spoiler:

the anime needs fight scenes

[mrsticky005]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

my dear huuga, sometimes, whatever is off panel isn't that important. It may be for some fans but what else can u do. It'd be unrealistic if we came back to exactly where they were...

The 7NSM - well, that i wanted to see badly.

Most importantly, don't say kishi is getting lazy. For him drawing up manga every week is a job. For you looking up manga every week is entertainment so tell me who is the lazy one here

It may not be "important" and it may not be "lazy".
But when Kishi hypes up this war by getting readers
excited with all these Reanimations and the Zetsu clones and more.

And the war is just...meh.

That's cheap writing.

Just because it's his "job" doesn't mean we shouldn't expect from him.
Building houses is the job of a construction crew and THAT is hard work.
What if your home caves in on you due to a bad construction job. Are you going to say "building houses is a job. living in one is a convenience."

[BMC1994]

I am tired of it.

Kishi keeps hyping up the great match ups.

The so-called invisible rampage of the copy ninja.

Kage battle

etc

And then he just drops it.

This whole war has been mostly one big disappointment.
Just one after another. The only good thing about were the past kages but they couldve given us that in a flashback or something since he uses them every 3 chapter anyway.

[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

my dear huuga, sometimes, whatever is off panel isn't that important. It may be for some fans but what else can u do. It'd be unrealistic if we came back to exactly where they were...

The 7NSM - well, that i wanted to see badly.

Most importantly, don't say kishi is getting lazy. For him drawing up manga every week is a job. For you looking up manga every week is entertainment so tell me who is the lazy one here

I agree with Hyuga and mrsticky I mean I write stories, which is a fact I mean I have link to a story I write on mibba in my sig and I have subscribers and people who want me to come out with new chapters fast and sometimes I want to skip past things, but if I do then my story will be so much less greater than it's supposed to be.

My point is that no ones forcing him to make chapters every week, he can hold out for a few like other manga's do, he doesn't have to rush through his work and then be criticized for doing a poor job, the main reason that people are upset is because they know he can do better.

I mean I didn't off panel my stories important moments so why should have an excuse when he off panels his?

[PrinceofPeace]

No fear guys

The anime is showing the glorious fights

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

No fear guys

The anime is showing the glorious fights

Good and I will be watching them.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

Well you see this is where me and you disagree, because I write stories and draw my own comics and I don't off panel things that are important.
please! don't compare yourself to Kishi... you're probably having gone commercial yet, he's working with editors, his restrictions and demands are not same as your... just don't do that comparison ~ not humbling.

Now Black Zetsu, may not have been all that Important, but the 7NSM were, I mean Kakashi was supposed to be finally using his 1000 jutsu, which I remind you we never got to see.

True...once i knew black zetsu was white zetsu with madara's will, i don't care for his fights. Yes, I was sad about the 7NSM, there's no excuse except for 1. If we knew kakashi would be facing of Tobi 1 on 1, i wouldn't have raged so much about the 7NSM, why? because i'd rather see kakashi use his 1000 jutsu against Tobi. Besides, if kakashi went all out against 7NSM, what'd kishi have left to write on his fight against Tobi. Kishi knows what he's doing in some respect.

The Five Kage vs Madara, was was important because I mean what else do I need to say to you, they are the five Kage, these are not the kind of people you just off panel defeat, especially not when they are fighting the main evil guy.
What more do you want to see the kages do. Their fight was becoming redundant. They'd all reached their limits. We know, they weren't gonna win. Why'd u want kishi to reveal more of mady's skills when he has a major battle to fight against Naruto? we've had over 8 chps of kage fights..that's plenty

He somehow defeats Guy and Killer Bee to the point where they can't move, but somehow that is not important? Now I'll give you black Zetsu, but the rest of it, no I'm not feeling that all.
I wasn't happy at all about this either...Killer bee hasn't done enough as jinchuriki and for guy to be completely worn out off panel really sucks. I agree

To me it just seems like he's rushing through the manga, which IMO he's been doing ever since he finished part 1.
I won't disagree with the rush. The pace changed from after the Pein vs Naruto fight when he began introducing all the shinobi from the other 4 hidden villages. i think the word Lazy is too harsh for kishi. He has COMPROMISED alot but NOT lazy.

In purple

Originally Posted by mrsticky005

It may not be "important" and it may not be "lazy".
But when Kishi hypes up this war by getting readers
excited with all these Reanimations and the Zetsu clones and more.

And the war is just...meh.

Here's where i'm on the same page, but not on the page of calling him lazy

That's cheap writing.

Yep!... The Edo Tensei and Kabuto himself was such promising elements of this war but look how they all turned out? I wonder how much influence his editors have on his ability to follow through his initial layout...


Just because it's his "job" doesn't mean we shouldn't expect from him.
ok...i agree

Building houses is the job of a construction crew and THAT is hard work.
What if your home caves in on you due to a bad construction job. Are you going to say "building houses is a job. living in one is a convenience."

I think the discussion of this thread is about a single component - off panel fights - among many things... your analogy would fit if we were discussing the entire work (manga)... besides, i'd say the off-panel is rather as though, the suffit of the rare of a building was covered with roofing, then you may ask why not show the suffit and it's articulation, and the builder replies; cus we don't have time and money so we'll save all that for the facade articulation instead. You couldn't call the builder's lazy for that would you? Likewise, kishi may have a time/deadline on his contract with his editors.

In Cyan

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

I agree with Hyuga and mrsticky I mean I write stories, which is a fact I mean I have link to a story I write on mibba in my sig and I have subscribers and people who want me to come out with new chapters fast and sometimes I want to skip past things, but if I do then my story will be so much less greater than it's supposed to be.

I get your point, but this kind of dilution i dont welcome. Don't compare your demand to kishi's world-wide demand. I acknowledge that you write and all but when u begin to compare to a well established mangaka you're speaking ignorance and it's just not humble. you don't encounter what he does.

My point is that no ones forcing him to make chapters every week, he can hold out for a few like other manga's do, he doesn't have to rush through his work and then be criticized for doing a poor job, the main reason that people are upset is because they know he can do better.
Untrue...he said it himself; this is the demand from those who pay him and his editors...that's what i'm saying. The story is different from a well established mangaka working for some big time editor than an ordinary artist who has time. Kishi has a deadline... He has to release every week whether he likes it or not.

I mean I didn't off panel my stories important moments so why should have an excuse when he off panels his?
There you go again, u're making it about you: This' a little annoying! who are you compared to kishi... to be great you need to first be humble and recognize you guys aren't on the same pedestal.

In green



My general comment is this: I agree that kishi has compromised a lot and the manga hasn't caught up to the expectation and excitement. But he's simply not a lazy man. Regarding off panel jobs, some are just a disappointment but some like the kages deserved to be off-panels...they'd become just redundant.

[Maruko]

The flashback ended without the explanation on how Nagato actually started hangin' out with ''Madara''.

[BMC1994]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

In purpleWhat more do you want to see the kages do. Their fight was becoming redundant. They'd all reached their limits. We know, they weren't gonna win. Why'd u want kishi to reveal more of mady's skills when he has a major battle to fight against Naruto? we've had over 8 chps of kage fights..that's plenty
Regarding off panel jobs, some are just a disappointment but some like the kages deserved to be off-panels...they'd become just redundant.

No just no. U dont hype the kages to be the most powerfull shinobis that are currently alive and pit them against the main antagonist and previous most powerfull shinobi and then proceed to off panel it. IDC if would have been a giant slaughter. IDC if the kages were at their limit. So was itachi , so was sasuke, so was deidara, etc etc etc etc far less exciting fights then this were on paneled.
Redundant? you know whats redundant those stupid flashbacks we have seen 300 chapters ago. No reasoning in the world can justify these things being off paneled.

Its like if they were too off panel the gotei 13 vs arrancars in bleach. 'its just redudant their were at their limit' heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllll no.
Or offpaneling whitebeard from one piece. These are important characters both to the story and some of them have large fanbases. You simply dont off panel those.
Thats what a war is about their all going to be at their limit? While were busy anyway why not off panel the entire war we all know naruto is going to TnJ everyone and hold hands so this whole war is redundant.

And kishis limitations. Shounen jump should be licking his heels to put this in. This is what the fans want to see. This is what gets naruto more sales/reads. Its the frikin climax of a war. you CANT offpanel it. Or you should have never build these fights up to begin with. And for all i care kishi could just take a long hiatus and come out with some quality fights/story instead of whatever it is hes giving us now.

I wouldnt even care if this hadnt been build so much. With the 7 swordmen being hyped up since part 1,by suigetsus speech and then kakashi little 'rampage rant'. That rant was redundant if we werent going to see anything anyway.And characters having no moves left. Thats no excuse we have seen Rasengan+kage bunshin already for 500 chapters and he is still using them. Kakashi especially had 1000 jutsu to use. We all know kishi isnt giving him thousand jutsu but he could shown off atleast like 5. We could have seen more combinations from the kages. A deeper look into the swordplay of the mists we have heard so much about. But no.

In the end i guess i have little to complain seeing as i dont pay to read the manga but still if bought some of the previous chapter i wouldnt be to happy with my purchase.

That said its just so frustrating because kishi has giving way better stuff then he puts out now. I dont think he a bad writer idk how the industry works but it should be possible for the artist to retain the most influence. Or there is something really wrong. This is supposed to be the final climax ultimate awesome piece of naruto but his writing is at its worst.

[Dragon Style]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

In purple




In Cyan



In green



My general comment is this: I agree that kishi has compromised a lot and the manga hasn't caught up to the expectation and excitement. But he's simply not a lazy man. Regarding off panel jobs, some are just a disappointment but some like the kages deserved to be off-panels...they'd become just redundant.

OK you don't want me to compare what he does to then fine, but I wasn't making this about me.

He has no excuse because other manga writers have just as much pressure as he does, they have dead lines and not a single on if them that I read off panels important details. When they need more time they ask for an extension and if the editors refuse to give them that, they make then wait anyway and then you know what happens after that they end up coming out with a much better chapter and their editors end up making a lot more money so they no longer complain.

I've read plenty of Manga, some that are way more popular than Naruto and if they can do all of their manga the right way, then he has no excuse for why he can't do the same.

He didn't have to show the all 1000 of Kakashi's jutsu's he could have showed 10 or even 5 and I wouldn't have been upset. like Hyuga said you don't just of panel the 5 Kage, there have been plenty of times that people have been at their limits and then at the last moment they pull out something powerful and new, there was absolutely no excuse for why he couldn't have done that.

Of paneling Guy and Killer Bee, you say killer Bee3 hasn't done much as a Jinchuuiki, but he's known how to be Jinchuuiki much longer than Naruto I mean for Crying out loud, he taught Naruto how to be Jinchuuriki, so how is it right that he gets off paneled, Guy is supposed to be equal to Kakashi, but he got off paneled too.

The bottom line is that there was no excuse for it, not one. I don't give other manga writers excuses and won't give him any either.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

I don't care what kind of pedestal he's on, he had no problem doing it before. In case you forgot, this manga was supposed to be finished a year a go, but then he stopped writing because he wouldn't tolerate them rushing his work and look what happened, they got off his back and was able to put decent chapters out.

there was a time before Shippuden came out that he refused to write because they were trying to short change him on his money and look what happened, they gave the man his money and then he started to write Shippuden.

like Dragon and BMC said, he has no excuse, if he really needed more time to come out with decent chapters then he could take that, time, it didn't stop him before so what changed now?

It's because of what he did before in this exact same situation that's why I will give him no excuses and no matter how harsh is may seem IMO what he's being doing lately has been nothing, but a lazy rush job. you may not want to hear it, but that's what it is.

[Larry01239]

It isn't always up to Kishi. The editors pressure the writer to hurry up on the story and so he has to skip over parts.

[kalmeast]

Originally Posted by Dragon Style

OK you don't want me to compare what he does to then fine, but I wasn't making this about me.

He has no excuse because other manga writers have just as much pressure as he does, they have dead lines and not a single on if them that I read off panels important details. When they need more time they ask for an extension and if the editors refuse to give them that, they make then wait anyway and then you know what happens after that they end up coming out with a much better chapter and their editors end up making a lot more money so they no longer complain.

I've read plenty of Manga, some that are way more popular than Naruto and if they can do all of their manga the right way, then he has no excuse for why he can't do the same.

He didn't have to show the all 1000 of Kakashi's jutsu's he could have showed 10 or even 5 and I wouldn't have been upset. like Hyuga said you don't just of panel the 5 Kage, there have been plenty of times that people have been at their limits and then at the last moment they pull out something powerful and new, there was absolutely no excuse for why he couldn't have done that.

Of paneling Guy and Killer Bee, you say killer Bee3 hasn't done much as a Jinchuuiki, but he's known how to be Jinchuuiki much longer than Naruto I mean for Crying out loud, he taught Naruto how to be Jinchuuriki, so how is it right that he gets off paneled, Guy is supposed to be equal to Kakashi, but he got off paneled too.

The bottom line is that there was no excuse for it, not one. I don't give other manga writers excuses and won't give him any either.

Let me say that again... I hated that the 7NSM got off-paneled.. And I hate how Killer Bee and Gai are off paneled. Killer bee should have more opportunity to show off his jinchuriki... I wasn't tryin to justify that... As for the Kages...I'm still skeptical about how i feel about them... But hey, you and dragon may have convinced me...The Kages shouldn't be off paneled even if they were gonna lose.

@Huuga... OK...you make a good point...

@ Dragon, I accept your conviction...makes sense... Ok.. no excuses. I agree he taking the easy way out... I hope he isn't too excited about the end fight and wanting to get there too quickly... What's going on with Kishi?

One thing I always think about is "EVER SINCE THAT WOMAN CAME INTO HIS LIFE" ... things have been going down

[Aroxin Uchiha]

Originally Posted by Hotarubi Hyuuga

OK first I believe it was black Zetsu, then is was seven swordsmen, after that it was five Kage and not Guy with Killer Bee.

Quite frankly I'm tired of all these off panel battles and or defeats, I think Kishimoto's just getting lazy and it needs to stop.

Personally I hope that everything, not shown will be shown in the anime, because I want to see this stuff.

Don't call Kishimoto lazy. I mean, I am also tired of the off-screen defeats but you got to think of what it is like in his view. Putting all the little chunks of details isn't all that easy in just one episode. You know how he kept us waiting for the story behind the nine-tails with Minato, he finally put it in the series and we all enjoyed it. If he tells what happened, why would you want to keep watching? He wants you to stay on a cliffhanger to watch/read more.

[Hotarubi Hyuuga]

Originally Posted by kalmeast

Let me say that again... I hated that the 7NSM got off-paneled.. And I hate how Killer Bee and Gai are off paneled. Killer bee should have more opportunity to show off his jinchuriki... I wasn't tryin to justify that... As for the Kages...I'm still skeptical about how i feel about them... But hey, you and dragon may have convinced me...The Kages shouldn't be off paneled even if they were gonna lose.

@Huuga... OK...you make a good point...

@ Dragon, I accept your conviction...makes sense... Ok.. no excuses. I agree he taking the easy way out... I hope he isn't too excited about the end fight and wanting to get there too quickly... What's going on with Kishi?

One thing I always think about is "EVER SINCE THAT WOMAN CAME INTO HIS LIFE" ... things have been going down

what woman?

Originally Posted by Aroxin Uchiha

Don't call Kishimoto lazy. I mean, I am also tired of the off-screen defeats but you got to think of what it is like in his view. Putting all the little chunks of details isn't all that easy in just one episode. You know how he kept us waiting for the story behind the nine-tails with Minato, he finally put it in the series and we all enjoyed it. If he tells what happened, why would you want to keep watching? He wants you to stay on a cliffhanger to watch/read more.

I really hope you read the rest of the thread because Dragon, BMC and I already explain why we felt like it was lazy.

[ItachiKisame]

I wouldn't say Black Zetsu's defeat was off panel we saw him get cut in half and was pretty much helpless then he got stabbed I think not sure if he is dead or not since he seems to be hard to kill but im sure he is pretty much out either way. And yeah it was annoying we didn't see the fight with the swordsman we at least saw Kakashi slice one of them in half but that was it it was all done by that time. At least in the anime they added some of that stuff in for fillers which was nice we already saw one of them get sealed im sure we will see the rest get sealed sooner or later as for the Kage's defeat yeah it is too bad we didn't see what happened though we kinda figured it was only a matter of time before it came. They may not show certain things in the manga but at least they add more of it in the anime im guessing kishi doesn't have the time to put some of it in and probably leaves it for the ones doing the episodes to add all that.