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View Poll Results: Can Hype-rama save the day?
Hashirama protects the village and wins 4 50.00%
Tobi and Kurama wreck the place 3 37.50%
Hashirama dies, but the village survives 1 12.50%
Hashirama wins, but the village is destroyed 0 0%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-06-2012, 10:54 PM   #1
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Default Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

We all know that Minato saved the leaf from Tobito and Kurama...
BUT
Can "the Great Hashirama" do the same?

Manga feats (Edo Hashirama and Edo Madara Mokuton feats for Hashirama)

Battle takes place just as before, but Hashirama is there instead of Minato (he starts out on top of his effigy on Mt. Rushmore the Hokage Monument).

Sorry Prince, I had to
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

YES YES YES!!! NO promblem I am glad you are making this before me ... but a few questions???

Unlike Hashirama Minato had help from his village so does Hashirama get the help as well?

I am assuming that Hashirama does not get Yamato feats?

Well I think Advent of Following Trees says it all! Hashairama would make a gigantic forest which would create pollen to K.O. Kurama before he does a TBB

Even if Kurama was able to use a TBB in time Hashirama has shown the ability to counter it (in Generations)


EDIT- I just checked and Tobi can not warp people while Tobi is intangiable ! So here is the plan!

Spoiler:

Hashirama uses Advent of flowing trees to K.O everyone in the village (especially Kurama hopefully before using the TBB)

Even If Kurama uses the TBB Hashirama makes a wood wall or wood dome to counter like he did in the generations cut sceen

Tobi would not appear behind Hashirama due to the pollen that is still active (but he may because he would not have knowledge of the pollen... is he did get behind Hashiarma than Tobi would be K.O)

If Tobi did not appear behind Hashirama or somehow get away than he would not win cuz his attacks are close ranged and their is no way to get in close due to pollen

Hashiarma would then bind Kurama with wood style and seal Kurama and get it out of Tobi's control!


I say Tobi would get away and retreat in the end since Hashirama does not have anything to hit him with. But if this is the same situation of Minato where the Villagers are involved this will be a lot easier

Also Advent of following trees should at LEAST work around Hashirama Kurama may be able to tear down the trees but Tobi is still not getting close and Hashirama can counter Kurama's strongest attack
Just like in the Tobi vs Minato battle while Hashirama is dealing with Kurama Tobi will appear behind Hashairama and try to warp him away
BUT!!!
With the pollen active Tobi will not be able to be in his physcial form so he can not grab him! Can Tobi warp someone while Tangiable?

Even if Tobi could warp someone while intangiable Hashirama could have a wood clone ready and warp his clone by mistake!

And If Tobi warped Hashirama away would that even be a win?

If Hashirama has Yamato feats then Hashirama can go underground
If The village is involve than they can hold Kurama back for a lil while and Hashirama can release it from the genjutsu

Hashirama can use genjutsu to slow than Tobi as well or try and seal his powers

Last edited by PrinceofPeace; 10-07-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Same situation, so Hashirama gets help from the village as well

You assumed correctly, no Yamato feats for Hashirama.

No way Hashirama can make a giant forest before Kurama can use a TBB. He'd also be putting all of his villagers to sleep if he used the technique.

Hashirama has not been shown to be able to counter a TBB. This is canon only, Generations fanfic feats are not allowed.

Hashirama would be obliterated by a TBB before he could do anything. Assuming he could survive a TBB, Tobi would just warp him away. Advent takes time to use and would be destroyed by a TBB explosion. Tobi easily warps Hashirama away due to Hashi having neither the speed or knowledge to counter the tech.

Hashirama doesn't have any sealing techniques that aren't related to Bijuu. He also wouldn't even know Tobi was near him until he'd grabbed him and at that point it's over. Even if by some miracle Hashirama was able to put up Advent of Flowering Trees in time and it wasn't destroyed by a TBB, Tobi's warping is done in an instant. Hashirama would be gone long before the pollen could take effect. Tobi could also hold his breath assuming Madara gave him intel on Hashirama.

Yes, warping is a win. Hashirama would eventually die of starvation/old age in Tobi's dimension.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post

No way Hashirama can make a giant forest before Kurama can use a TBB. He'd also be putting all of his villagers to sleep if he used the technique.
Why do you say this?? Hashirama protected himself from a TBB last time with his wood dome! Hashirama is the best at using wood style so he can instantly create a forest to put Kurama to sleep or at least weaken it. Who cares if all of the villagers were put to sleep! As long as Kurama is not causing damage and since the pollen does not hurt the villagers everything is okay! Hashirama just has to not get spoted by Kurama and then grow his trees.

Hashirama has not been shown to be able to counter a TBB. This is canon only, Generations fanfic feats are not allowed.
But it is possible. Afterall Hashirama fought Kurama before and other bijju and tamed them and most likey the bijju used a TBB during the fight

Hashirama would be obliterated by a TBB before he could do anything. Assuming he could survive a TBB, Tobi would just warp him away. Advent takes time to use and would be destroyed by a TBB explosion. Tobi easily warps Hashirama away due to Hashi having neither the speed or knowledge to counter the tech.
Tobi waited after Kurama used a TBB to attack! So when Hashirama uses Advent of following trees it would prevent Tobi from attacking. Hashirama can avoid being spoted from Kurama then raise the trees without Kurama finding his position. Then the pollen would K.O. Kurama or at least bind it so it would be easier to seal! hashirama was the master of the bijju so Hashirama is the best in this situation! He dealt with all of the bijju and knows what to expect

Hashirama doesn't have any sealing techniques that aren't related to Bijuu. He also wouldn't even know Tobi was near him until he'd grabbed him and at that point it's over. Even if by some miracle Hashirama was able to put up Advent of Flowering Trees in time and it wasn't destroyed by a TBB, Tobi's warping is done in an instant. Hashirama would be gone long before the pollen could take effect. Tobi could also hold his breath assuming Madara gave him intel on Hashirama.

Hashirama was the contolled Bijju and gave them to other villgers so Hashriama would have sealing jutsu's or some kind of way to take care of bijju's! Hashirama had great reaction time! He would notice Tobi! Tobi underestimated Minato (the fastest ninja) and so he did not warp him fast enough so Tobi would seriously underestimate Hashirama (not the slowest ninja) The pollen takes instant effect so Tobi would move slower anyhow

Yes, warping is a win. Hashirama would eventually die of starvation/old age in Tobi's dimension.
WIth Advent of folloing trees Tobi would not be able to be tangiable and get close to Hashirama in time so Tobi would have to run away since he has no long ranged ninjutsu

I love Advent World of Following Trees
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

We've seen how long it takes to make a forest, and it's definitely not faster than using a TBB-even it it were (and it's not) it would all get destroyed by the TBB's explosion. Wood style is not that fast. People have had conversations while watching it come towards them.

I'm not sure how Hashirama survived in his fights against Bijuu-most likely by finding a way to defeat them before they could use a TBB. He also could've had help in many of the fights. There have been plenty of fodder ninja who shouldn't be able to survive against a Bijuu come out okay because they had help (examples are Karin and Kumogakure shinobi). Before you blab about him fighting against Madara and Kurama, he wasn't alone-he had Mito with him, who quite possibly had a technique similar to Kushina's/Tobi's that could restrain Kurama. As it stands, there is nothing in Hashirama's arsenal that can defend against a TBB explosion.

Once again you massively overestimate the speed of wood style, and it's not like Kurama couldn't just destroy the trees with a TBB or clawing them. How would Kurama not notice Hashirama? He noticed Minato pretty much the instant he appeared in the village.

There would be no time after Kurama's attack for him to grow out Advent of Flowering Trees before Tobi attacks him. (There also wouldn't be a Hashirama or Leaf Village)

Your argument about sealing jutsu is once again an assumption. We use facts/feats in debates. Please give me a panel with Hashirama showing great reaction time. He would notice Tobi-another assumption, granted it's definitely possible. Hashirama has no way to escape a Tobi warp-the only way Minato could was because he has instant teleportation. Both the manga and biology contradict your statement about the pollen taking instant effect.

Your argument for every Hashirama thread is Advent of Flowering Trees. It's not nearly as good as you think it is. First, it takes time to grow. Second, it takes time to spread the pollen through the air. Third, there is a time interval between when the victim inhales it, it goes through the lungs, enters and travels through the bloods stream and then somehow affects the nervous system-this is even shown in the manga with the Kage falling through the pollen area, taking their time getting up from the ground, Mei making a few handseals and then falling asleep. (You seriously think Tobi can't warp him in that time?) Fourth, the opponent can avoid it by staying out of range or holding their breath. Fifth, it can be resisted as demonstrated by Onoki.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
We've seen how long it takes to make a forest, and it's definitely not faster than using a TBB-even it it were (and it's not) it would all get destroyed by the TBB's explosion. Wood style is not that fast. People have had conversations while watching it come towards them.
Madara would not be fast at using Wood Style when he is using it for the first time. Hashirama was faster when he used Wood Style. Just watch geneation cut scene. TBB was stoped by wood style so a forest would do it as well. Putting up a forest of K.O. pollen would K.O the enemies

I'm not sure how Hashirama survived in his fights against Bijuu-most likely by finding a way to defeat them before they could use a TBB. He also could've had help in many of the fights. There have been plenty of fodder ninja who shouldn't be able to survive against a Bijuu come out okay because they had help (examples are Karin and Kumogakure shinobi). Before you blab about him fighting against Madara and Kurama, he wasn't alone-he had Mito with him, who quite possibly had a technique similar to Kushina's/Tobi's that could restrain Kurama. As it stands, there is nothing in Hashirama's arsenal that can defend against a TBB explosion.
He did it by the cutscene in generations. It was not stated that he had help. It would have been mentioned if he did. Hashirama>Taka and Kumo!
Plus Kumo had sealing items for help . After Hashirama separeted Madara's and Kurama connections Hashirama pinned Kurama to the ground and Kurama was K.O. Mito was only used to seal Kurama and not in the battle. Did you even watch the cutscene? Wood Dome takes TBB

Once again you massively overestimate the speed of wood style, and it's not like Kurama couldn't just destroy the trees with a TBB or clawing them. How would Kurama not notice Hashirama? He noticed Minato pretty much the instant he appeared in the village.
The pollen effects are instant! They took fast effects on the kages. By the time Kurama noticed, charged up, and used TBB the forest would have been made and the pollen would be in effect. You are seriously underestamining wood syle. EVEN IF Kurama stood up or destoryed the forest around it Tobi still would be able to get in close

There would be no time after Kurama's attack for him to grow out Advent of Flowering Trees before Tobi attacks him. (There also wouldn't be a Hashirama or Leaf Village)
That is why Hashirama would attack beofre Kurama attacked.

Your argument about sealing jutsu is once again an assumption. We use facts/feats in debates. Please give me a panel with Hashirama showing great reaction time. He would notice Tobi-another assumption, granted it's definitely possible. Hashirama has no way to escape a Tobi warp-the only way Minato could was because he has instant teleportation. Both the manga and biology contradict your statement about the pollen taking instant effect.
You assumed by saying if/could above!!
With hashirama's forest he would not have to notice Tobi cuz Tobi would be K.O due to pollen. battling them
or
Bringger of Darkness Blinds Obito
or
Hashirama would use a wood clone and go after Kurama. Hashirama is not going to stand still ! He would go after the bijju cuz he is used to

Your argument for every Hashirama thread is Advent of Flowering Trees. It's not nearly as good as you think it is. First, it takes time to grow. Second, it takes time to spread the pollen through the air. Third, there is a time interval between when the victim inhales it, it goes through the lungs, enters and travels through the bloods stream and then somehow affects the nervous system-this is even shown in the manga with the Kage falling through the pollen area, taking their time getting up from the ground, Mei making a few handseals and then falling asleep. (You seriously think Tobi can't warp him in that time?) Fourth, the opponent can avoid it by staying out of range or holding their breath. Fifth, it can be resisted as demonstrated by Onoki.
Finding Hashirama and chariging it and sending it would also take time. Growing plants and the time intervial is like the same thing. Tobi warped AFTER the TBB so witht he pollen already spreading it would go even faster
Hold on
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Madara would not be fast at using Wood Style when he is using it for the first time. Hashirama was faster when he used Wood Style. Just watch geneation cut scene. TBB was stoped by wood style so a forest would do it as well. Putting up a forest of K.O. pollen would K.O the enemies
There is absolutely no evidence for this statement-Hashirama can only be as fast as Madara as well since he has never been shown using most of his techs in the manga and we're using Madara's Mokuton feats for those techs in this debate. As I already said CANON ONLY. Video game feats are always ridiculous and over done, why are you bringing it up again? Putting up a forest of pollen is time consuming and slow.

He did it by the cutscene in generations. It was not stated that he had help. It would have been mentioned if he did. Hashirama>Taka and Kumo!
Plus Kumo had sealing items for help . After Hashirama separeted Madara's and Kurama connections Hashirama pinned Kurama to the ground and Kurama was K.O. Mito was only used to seal Kurama and not in the battle. Did you even watch the cutscene? Wood Dome takes TBB
Once again-Generations cut scene never happened-it's the producers' fanfic and isn't used in the BG's-only canon feats are used here.

The pollen effects are instant! They took fast effects on the kages. By the time Kurama noticed, charged up, and used TBB the forest would have been made and the pollen would be in effect. You are seriously underestamining wood syle. EVEN IF Kurama stood up or destoryed the forest around it Tobi still would be able to get in close.
I guess you didn't read the stuff I wrote about Advent of Flowering trees above. Please read it and try again. Kurama noticed Minato instantly-that's not a factor. Using a TBB is waaaay faster than Advent of Flowering trees. How am I underestimating wood style? I'm actually giving manga evidence to show the speed and reach of the technique, you're just saying it's really fast. Do you have anything to support your claims other than the Generations cutscene which never happened?

That is why Hashirama would attack beofre Kurama attacked.
With what? Hashirama has nothing that can stop Kurama at that distance before he uses a TBB.

You assumed by saying if/could above!! What...? If you're referring to the Madara vs. Hashirama fight I was only throwing out an alternate scenario to what you posed-we have to assume there since the fight has never been shown (in the manga).
With hashirama's forest he would not have to notice Tobi cuz Tobi would be K.O due to pollen. battling them Already refuted this about five times.
or
Bringger of Darkness Blinds Obito Good luck recognizing Obito's presence and making the handsign(s) before being warped. Assuming Obito can even be affected by the genjutsu while he's in the other dimension.
or
Hashirama would use a wood clone and go after Kurama. Hashirama is not going to stand still ! He would go after the bijju cuz he is used to
What is a wood clone going to do against Kurama? It's not like this fight would last long anyway. It'll be done within 30 seconds. Hashirama will either be obliterated by a TBB or warped by Tobi.


Finding Hashirama and chariging it and sending it would also take time. Growing plants and the time intervial is like the same thing. Tobi warped AFTER the TBB so witht he pollen already spreading it would go even faster
As I already said Kurama noticed Minato right away so that's out the window. Chapter 502: Kurama charges a TBB and fires it in the time Minato says "So you noticed me...not on my watch!" 4 panels showing entire progression. One panel later the tech reaches Minato.
Chapter 575: Madara begins Advent of Flowering Trees in response to Onoki's golem. A jumps multiple times to avoid the branches (not in lightning armor). Gaara, Mei, and Tsuande watch it coming towards them. The following exchange goes on. Tsunade: "That's my Grandfather's..." Mei: It is approaching us...what should we do!? Tsunade: Kazekage! Gaara: Ok! I know that! Gaara then levitates himself, Mei, and Tsunade above the branches. This all happens over 11 panels and the range covered by the jutsu is not as large as the Leaf Village.

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Old 10-13-2012, 09:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

I don't knw about you guys, and I don't know if this is the fight scene you guys are talking about in Generations,but I just watched a clip of Hashirama beating Madara/Kurama.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

I know isnt it AWESOME
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

It was kinda boring..... IT was so easy for Hashirama!
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Which is why he was breathing hard at the end?

Which was why he was intense focus and was sweating while blocking TBB !

It was an intense battle know body one eaisly
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

He was not sweating while blocking TBB. HE was muttering to himself.
I didn't watch the whole thing, nor did I watch it with sound.....

But seriously, that was an un-intense fight.
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

IMO

It was awesome (for a cutscene) I think it was a close fight. It was fun to watch and I was impressed. hashirama amazed me with his abilities
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

IMO is one of the few abbreviations I don't know. >.>


Are we talking about the same one? The one where Hashirama creates the Valley of the End?
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

In My Opinon

and yea
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangetsu Hozuki View Post
I don't knw about you guys, and I don't know if this is the fight scene you guys are talking about in Generations,but I just watched a clip of Hashirama beating Madara/Kurama.
Yes, it is the Generations cutscene, since that is the only representation of the fight. Regardless, if you watched any clip it can't be used in this thread, because as per BG standards the feats used are from the manga only.

Edit: This is also Tobi and Kurama vs. Hashirama, not Madara and Kurama vs. Hashirama.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Well SHUCKS!

If this is by manga feats than Hashirama loses due to lack of feats

if this was ALL FEATS than hashirama can win this
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

Quote:
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Well SHUCKS!

If this is by manga feats than Hashirama loses due to lack of feats

if this was ALL FEATS than hashirama can win this
Yup. For future reference all of my threads are manga feats only (that is BG standard). I will explicitly state if anime or game feats are allowed.

Not that Hashirama could win anyway since he still has no defense against Tobi warp and his deflection of the TBB was utterly ridiculous and contradicted what we've seen of how it works in the manga. (TBBs always explode upon impact or very shortly afterwards. The TBB in that clip sat on Hashirama's wood dome for a full 12 seconds without doing anything, bounced off, and then never exploded) Major fail by the animators.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

His jutsu caught Kurama casually.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Can Hashirama save the Leaf?

WOODEN DRAGON GG!!!! Hashirama surronds himself with it so it can tank a TBB and drains Tobi's charka
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