[SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes

Doton · 08-30-2012, 02:26 AM

This revelation leaves tons of the Obito theorists joyful. But they shouldn't be because i feel it'll be chaos for Kishi to explain everything and try to cover up the plotholes.

For example, look at Kakashi's age during the Kyuubi attack on the leaf, how is it Tobi seems around Minato's age during the attack?
Why was Obito so unprepared when he faced his sensei and "let his guard down" even though he knew almost everything about Minato's abilities?

Tobi claimed he convinced Nagato to create the Akatsuki. Nagato is older than Obito would be.

Im someone who looks for reasons behind everything, for me this just seems like "Tobi being Obito satisfies more fans".

If that's the case shouldn't Sasuke die due to the huge community of people that dislike him?

I know Kishi and he will be able to explain himself very well. But the simplest route doesn't seem like his choice.

mimihigurashi · 08-30-2012, 05:56 PM

Agree, with Kishi it's never as simple as mask comes off = identity revealed.
People jump to conclusions too fast, it's not over yet, there are so many plot holes, nothing makes much sense.

Doton · 08-31-2012, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimihigurashi

Agree, with Kishi it's never as simple as mask comes off = identity revealed.
People jump to conclusions too fast, it's not over yet, there are so many plot holes, nothing makes much sense.

Right? There's no reason for Obito to do anything evil, especially since we haven't seen anything go wrong with him. He died a hero and to see him randomly pop up as one of the most powerful villains blew my mind.

mimihigurashi · 08-31-2012, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doton

Right? There's no reason for Obito to do anything evil, especially since we haven't seen anything go wrong with him. He died a hero and to see him randomly pop up as one of the most powerful villains blew my mind.

Exactly. Also, what about Tobi and Madara's voice. We have to wait until the anime catches up to the manga chapter where Madara speaks to hear his voice, what if it's the same as Tobi? I don't know why but I find it terribly easy to imagine Madara speaking in that voice, it just seems like him, lol.

Phacade · 08-31-2012, 03:26 AM

There could be many explanations...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doton

For example, look at Kakashi's age during the Kyuubi attack on the leaf, how is it Tobi seems around Minato's age during the attack?

"Age" is a difficult thing to judge on its on merits. Your age is based, not on the time your alive in the world, but based on the amount of time you've been alive. Let me illustrate. Lets say I was born in 1992 and am 20 years old in 2012. For whatever reason, I go back in time to 1992. By the time 2012 rolls around again, I will be 40 years old...even though only 20 years have passed.

Obito/Tobi has Space/Time ninjutsu, yes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doton

Why was Obito so unprepared when he faced his sensei and "let his guard down" even though he knew almost everything about Minato's abilities?

Couple of things here.

Obito probably knew Minato was a teleporter. I say probably because, like Naruto, Obito was a bit of a knucklehead before he awakened his Sharingan. In any case, knowing something and using it to your advantage can be two completely seperate things. No doubt he sparred with Minato several times, but there was never a reason for Minato to go into Level 2 Flying Thunder God against his students, nor were they ever fighting at full force prior to the attack on Konoha 16 years ago.
Minato might have been just that good. I remember seeing a number of poker games where a player will play his hand open, showing everyone at the table exactly what he has, and still winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doton

Tobi claimed he convinced Nagato to create the Akatsuki. Nagato is older than Obito would be.

Is he? What if Obito went back in time? Chronologically, Obito could be older.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doton

If that's the case shouldn't Sasuke die due to the huge community of people that dislike him?

Sakuke is, not only one of the primary characters and themes in Naruto, but is also supposed to be Kishi's favorite. Can't kill the golden boy.

Edit: The image of Obito against the Hokage monuments clearly shows thr 4th, but he wasn't Hokage yet. This could be a plothole, but then again, issue #599 may not necessarily be backstory for the reader and could just as easily be Kakashi remembering Obito as he was then with Kohona as it is now. Memory is a funny thing. I remember my Grandpa as he was before he died, standing in the living room, but I remember my living room as it is now. Weird? Its how our minds work.

ice_edge · 08-31-2012, 05:30 AM

The one with him being pretty much all over the place and controlling everything behind shadows doesn't make any sense.

kalmeast · 08-31-2012, 05:55 AM

Agree!

Maruko · 08-31-2012, 06:09 AM

Troll style: Fanservice no jutsu!

Blah. · 08-31-2012, 12:33 PM

Thing is if Kishi were to make Tobi be Obito (which is the way things are shaping up) when everyone wrote him off as a possibility, then Kishi must have thought this out thoroughly.

SilentBlade · 08-31-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruko

Troll style: Fanservice no jutsu!

I don't know what the hand seals are for that.....oh wait! its 1/4 of the Unisign!

Edit: Sorry couldn't help myself, no offense to Obito supports :-)

mrsticky005 · 08-31-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blah.

Thing is if Kishi were to make Tobi be Obito (which is the way things are shaping up) when everyone wrote him off as a possibility, then Kishi must have thought this out thoroughly.

One can only hope.

Vivi · 08-31-2012, 06:04 PM

IMO People seem to not realize what the cliffhanger was.

It wasn't a statement that he is Obito but
"You are...Obito?"

Gotta think as the reader.
Whats the point in showing us Kakashi asking?
Of course disbelieve but readers are supposed to be involved as well.
"You are....Obito?"
A simple yes doesn't do it, there IS something to come guaranteed.

Now let Kishi do the ultimate Troll:
"Who is Obito?"

Godaime Kazekage · 08-31-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi

IMO People seem to not realize what the cliffhanger was.

It wasn't a statement that he is Obito but
"You are...Obito?"

Gotta think as the reader.
Whats the point in showing us Kakashi asking?
Of course disbelieve but readers are supposed to be involved as well.
"You are....Obito?"
A simple yes doesn't do it, there IS something to come guaranteed.

Now let Kishi do the ultimate Troll:
"Who is Obito?"

I agree 100%

mrsticky005 · 09-01-2012, 01:35 AM

Nah. I think it was meant as a more a statement than a question

the cliff hanger is really...OBITO IS TOBI!? BUT HOW!

Jutsu Junkie · 09-01-2012, 01:50 AM

The masked man trope just doesn't do it for me. Why is there always a dude with a mask? And the reveal is always lame. I think it's instructive that almost all these demigod super assassins feel it's completely unnecessary to hide their identities, unless they are in ANBO, and yet they go on classified missions, but the one "super villain" needs to be a big secret, despite the fact that his powerful underlings could care less about being known. That's why I never got involved in the controversy: it's silly. But worse, I don't see how it helps or even changes the story at this point. It would've changed things if he really was Madara, or if he'd been a major part of Kanoha's power structure or something. Him being Obito has almost zero impact.

Doton · 09-01-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi

IMO People seem to not realize what the cliffhanger was.

It wasn't a statement that he is Obito but
"You are...Obito?"

Gotta think as the reader.
Whats the point in showing us Kakashi asking?
Of course disbelieve but readers are supposed to be involved as well.
"You are....Obito?"
A simple yes doesn't do it, there IS something to come guaranteed.

Now let Kishi do the ultimate Troll:
"Who is Obito?"

I can't really argue with that, we do jump to conclusions. However if he pulls a 360 many people will be ticked off because if it isn't actually Obito, the 95% of the previous chapters flashbacks would have been pointless. I always expected the revelation and the explanation somewhat in the same chapter. It was a chunk of everything we already knew until we saw the face. But even then we weren't surprised it was Obito.

And also Phacade I read your responses and if it does turn out the way you explained it would be quite interesting. The Obito theories never got as detailed and interesting as that. I agree with most of what you said.

However I do see problems if Kishi decides to use the "time" part of the space-time jutsu. Forgive me if I misunderstood your point but it would kill the reasoning behind anything Tobi does. Why start this war if he could snag Naruto and Bee as a baby by moving back in time? Why not go back in time before Minato struck him, or Naruto, or Konan? Saying he can go back in time would just cause reactions that would lead to
"Would Naruto be a show if Obito just took the kyuubi from him as a kid"

I understand Sasuke is a walking spoiler because we know up to this point he's walked into fights and came out alive due to crazy assistance from anyone around him. I only used him as an example because hes one of the most hated characters at the moment. Don't get me wrong I like him, and some of my friends do, but I used him because if you listen to the fanbase he would've died when he fought Danzo.
I doubt Kishi didn't have a single thought of making Tobi someone different.

Ag_Surfr · 09-01-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vivi

IMO People seem to not realize what the cliffhanger was.

It wasn't a statement that he is Obito but
"You are...Obito?"

Gotta think as the reader.
Whats the point in showing us Kakashi asking?
Of course disbelieve but readers are supposed to be involved as well.
"You are....Obito?"
A simple yes doesn't do it, there IS something to come guaranteed.

Now let Kishi do the ultimate Troll:
"Who is Obito?"

if it turns out that he's not obito, then the flashback would have been meaningless/pointless.

Jutsu Junkie · 09-02-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ag_Surfr

if it turns out that he's not obito, then the flashback would have been meaningless/pointless.

Not really, in that it exposes the impact on Kakashi. It will develop the value of any manipulation involved. While I think it would be stupid, it would be in line with Kabuto's strategy with the ETs; that would make Tobi more of a follower, but would it really break the story anymore than Tobi being Obito? I'm not a big fan of flashbacks in general (neither are most professional writers, as a point of craft), but the reveal being a deception does not render it meaningless.

Satsuki · 09-02-2012, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doton

This revelation leaves tons of the Obito theorists joyful. But they shouldn't be because i feel it'll be chaos for Kishi to explain everything and try to cover up the plotholes.

For example, look at Kakashi's age during the Kyuubi attack on the leaf, how is it Tobi seems around Minato's age during the attack?
Why was Obito so unprepared when he faced his sensei and "let his guard down" even though he knew almost everything about Minato's abilities?

He was 18 during the Kurama Incident 16 years ago. It's because of the fact that he was Minato's student that he stood a chance.

Tobi claimed he convinced Nagato to create the Akatsuki. Nagato is older than Obito would be.

He claimed (under the persona of Madara) that he was the one who convinced Nagato to create the Akatsuki, so HE didn't, but Madara did. Just how Madara gave him the Rinnegan.

Im someone who looks for reasons behind everything, for me this just seems like "Tobi being Obito satisfies more fans".

I do agree, I think Izuna would have made a better candidate, but all the signs were there. He had the right eye, the hair, the body type... He's had enough time to recuperate from the boulders. I don't honestly see a problem.

If that's the case shouldn't Sasuke die due to the huge community of people that dislike him?

There are also a large portion of people that like Sasuke as well, Kishi has already stated that he knows how the series will end, regardless of what the fans want.

I know Kishi and he will be able to explain himself very well. But the simplest route doesn't seem like his choice.

Everything has been answered in this post bro, there is nothing wrong with the choice he made.

In Magenta.

Also, this isn't a deep ravine either.

Hidden Ninja45 · 09-03-2012, 12:57 AM

I'm stilling holding out for it all making some sort of sense next chapter. I feel like everyone really jumped the gun on complaining about Tobi being Obito. Chapter 600 should explain the "Hows" and the "Whys". Will it be a good explanation though? We'll just have to wait and see.

08-30-2012, 02:26 AM	#1
Doton Ninja Academy Student Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 38 Rep Power: 0	[SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes This revelation leaves tons of the Obito theorists joyful. But they shouldn't be because i feel it'll be chaos for Kishi to explain everything and try to cover up the plotholes. For example, look at Kakashi's age during the Kyuubi attack on the leaf, how is it Tobi seems around Minato's age during the attack? Why was Obito so unprepared when he faced his sensei and "let his guard down" even though he knew almost everything about Minato's abilities? Tobi claimed he convinced Nagato to create the Akatsuki. Nagato is older than Obito would be. Im someone who looks for reasons behind everything, for me this just seems like "Tobi being Obito satisfies more fans". If that's the case shouldn't Sasuke die due to the huge community of people that dislike him? I know Kishi and he will be able to explain himself very well. But the simplest route doesn't seem like his choice.

08-30-2012, 05:56 PM	#2
mimihigurashi Freshmen Academy Student Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes Agree, with Kishi it's never as simple as mask comes off = identity revealed. People jump to conclusions too fast, it's not over yet, there are so many plot holes, nothing makes much sense.

08-31-2012, 05:30 AM	#6
ice_edge Ninja Academy Student Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 32 Rep Power: 2	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes The one with him being pretty much all over the place and controlling everything behind shadows doesn't make any sense.

08-31-2012, 05:55 AM	#7
kalmeast Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Yttik A Ni Neddih Egalliv Posts: 2,771 Rep Power: 14 Member's Picture Albums	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes Agree! __________________ Hashi's DNA + FTG = Time Travel To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. When Rikoudo Entered Sage Mode, His Hair Changed To Dreadlocks. Critic: "Your S1 alludes to Beethoven's "fate" Brahms: "any ass can see that"... such class of reverence

08-31-2012, 06:09 AM	#8
Maruko Winter is Coming Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 12,283 Rep Power: 33	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes Troll style: Fanservice no jutsu! __________________

08-31-2012, 12:33 PM	#9
Blah. Veteran Chunin Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,194 Rep Power: 7	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes Thing is if Kishi were to make Tobi be Obito (which is the way things are shaping up) when everyone wrote him off as a possibility, then Kishi must have thought this out thoroughly. __________________ I post stuff when I'm bored... Blah. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-31-2012, 06:04 PM	#12
Vivi Little Miss Spoiler Formerly V-Valentine Jonin Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Deutschland Posts: 13,974 Rep Power: 23 Member's Picture Albums	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes IMO People seem to not realize what the cliffhanger was. It wasn't a statement that he is Obito but "You are...Obito?" Gotta think as the reader. Whats the point in showing us Kakashi asking? Of course disbelieve but readers are supposed to be involved as well. "You are....Obito?" A simple yes doesn't do it, there IS something to come guaranteed. Now let Kishi do the ultimate Troll: "Who is Obito?" __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Jessie>Tifa and Aeris. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-01-2012, 01:35 AM	#14
mrsticky005 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: In the White Text House Posts: 13,910 Rep Power: 23 Member's Picture Albums	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes Nah. I think it was meant as a more a statement than a question the cliff hanger is really...OBITO IS TOBI!? BUT HOW! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Spam once and the forum will be annoyed. Spam twice and warnings will be deployed Spam thrice and a infraction you will receive Spam 8,984 times and a FAIL Agent you''ll soon be. ...At least in my case. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-01-2012, 01:50 AM	#15
Jutsu Junkie Veteran Chunin Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Evil Santa's transdimensional jackboot Posts: 1,439 Rep Power: 7	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes The masked man trope just doesn't do it for me. Why is there always a dude with a mask? And the reveal is always lame. I think it's instructive that almost all these demigod super assassins feel it's completely unnecessary to hide their identities, unless they are in ANBO, and yet they go on classified missions, but the one "super villain" needs to be a big secret, despite the fact that his powerful underlings could care less about being known. That's why I never got involved in the controversy: it's silly. But worse, I don't see how it helps or even changes the story at this point. It would've changed things if he really was Madara, or if he'd been a major part of Kanoha's power structure or something. Him being Obito has almost zero impact. __________________ Power does not corrupt men; fools, however, if they get into a position of power, corrupt power. --George Bernard Shaw

09-03-2012, 12:57 AM	#20
Hidden Ninja45 Jonin Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Earth, Sol System Posts: 16,026 Rep Power: 16	Re: [SPOILERS] The deep ravine of plotholes I'm stilling holding out for it all making some sort of sense next chapter. I feel like everyone really jumped the gun on complaining about Tobi being Obito. Chapter 600 should explain the "Hows" and the "Whys". Will it be a good explanation though? We'll just have to wait and see. __________________ Currently Playing: Assassin's Creed III, Battlefield 3, Halo 4 Currently Reading: Sword Art Online: Aria in the Starless Night To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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