Spoiler Slightest issue with <HE WHO CANNOT BE NAMED> being Tobi

[SilentBlade]

I say that so the Anime viewers don't pick up the spoiler..Ok, so like I've said, I don't really have an issuer per say, but I do wonder how this works! Just working a bit with age (which is a major factor here), we are given Kakashi's age and are told that in the current time he's about 30...I believe that's right! Now, we know that Naruto is about 16 (from his conversation with Minato)...

My issue would be that BASED on that, when the Kyuubi attack happened, and Tobi first appeared, Kakashi would have been 14, meaning 1 year after Kakashi chronicles happened (as the events that lead to Obito dying). That means in a SINGLE YEAR Obito would have been pulled from the rubble, healed up, awakened the MS, mastered the MS and his ability to control the Kyuubi, as well as gone from weak as heck to being on par with Minato...you see where I am going with this?

Now, of course there is the talking point with Madara teaching Obito, and even that has issues as well. Looking at Tsunade'sage, we can argue that during the current portion she is around 54, meaning during the initial attack, she was about 38, then we can state that she is 3 generations down from Madara. Then, on top of that, lets give each generation a value of about 20 years, so that means that during that time Madara would be around 80 years old, plus another 18 years (since Tsunade is around 38) so that makes him 98 years old at that time IF he survived the battle...

While we know what is in the chapter...I think the numbers create an important inconsistency people should keep track of.

Edit: It should be have been 88 in total with the extra 18 years, not 98, my mind started wandering just slightly faster than my hands..still pretty old when you consider Hiruzan died at 68.

[Maruko]

Totally. They fused Obito with something. He was enhanced, that's the only reasonable option IMO.

[SilentBlade]

Originally Posted by Maruko

Totally. They fused Obito with something. He was enhanced, that's the only reasonable option IMO.

its not even his size that bothers me, its the abilities...it would be like teaching a 14 year old who had a basic understanding of fractions, how to do linear algebra in a single year...its just a time issue that I run into. I mean, I get it, Obito would have been like the narutoverse's version of the million dollar man (we have the technology, we can rebuild him, make him stronger faster, etc..) but even with all that, the amount of time to do that would just be quite a task, and for him to go from being a hero to villain in a single year would be crazy!

[issa]

That's one of the biggest plot holes. He mastered all that in a year. From the flashbacks and the gaiden we see that he's not a genius like Kakashi or Itachi. Some may say that Naruto progressed even faster but he has Kurama and the kagebunshin trick. The only explanation is that he too did something. I like the Zetsu theory

[Maruko]

Also, he used MS so many times! Why isn't he blind yet? There were 2 Tobi's, one that helped Itachi and attacked Minato, and the current one.
That's just my thought.

[SilentBlade]

Originally Posted by issa

That's one of the biggest plot holes. He mastered all that in a year. From the flashbacks and the gaiden we see that he's not a genius like Kakashi or Itachi. Some may say that Naruto progressed even faster but he has Kurama and the kagebunshin trick. The only explanation is that he too did something. I like the Zetsu theory

The only thing I can think of to tie it all together is Orochimaru's involvement. We know at this point Orochimaru is about 38 as well, holding that the Sannin are all around the same age. That said, we know that Orochimaru had already left the village due to his absurd medical tampering with people and his obsession with learning Jutsu. I get the feeling that Nawaki is still involved some how due to the ambiguity of his death and Orochimaru's direct involvement, but perhaps Orochmaru is also responsible for Obito as well. We know through the series that Sasuke progressed faster due to forbidden jutsu's and drugs! what if the same logic is applied here? The issue (though) is that we still only have a single year!

Edit: I can't see 2 Tobi's just because of what we know about the MS, and the fact that it appears that Kamui is a rare jutsu, similar to how Shisui had a very rare genjutsu.

[issa]

I'm currently rewatching the original series and Oro did say to Kakashi that the last time he saw him he didn't have that sharingan. So Oro left before Kakashi was a joanin which means it's possible he took Obito under his wing

[Maruko]

^That snake is always present. I wouldn't be surprised. He did stuff with little kids in konoha, maybe he screwed Obito too.

[ObitoUchiha]

Originally Posted by SilentBlade

I say that so the Anime viewers don't pick up the spoiler..Ok, so like I've said, I don't really have an issuer per say, but I do wonder how this works! Just working a bit with age (which is a major factor here), we are given Kakashi's age and are told that in the current time he's about 30...I believe that's right! Now, we know that Naruto is about 16 (from his conversation with Minato)...

My issue would be that BASED on that, when the Kyuubi attack happened, and Tobi first appeared, Kakashi would have been 14, meaning 1 year after Kakashi chronicles happened (as the events that lead to Obito dying). That means in a SINGLE YEAR Obito would have been pulled from the rubble, healed up, awakened the MS, mastered the MS and his ability to control the Kyuubi, as well as gone from weak as heck to being on par with Minato...you see where I am going with this?

Now, of course there is the talking point with Madara teaching Obito, and even that has issues as well. Looking at Tsunade'sage, we can argue that during the current portion she is around 54, meaning during the initial attack, she was about 38, then we can state that she is 3 generations down from Madara. Then, on top of that, lets give each generation a value of about 20 years, so that means that during that time Madara would be around 80 years old, plus another 18 years (since Tsunade is around 38) so that makes him 98 years old at that time IF he survived the battle...

While we know what is in the chapter...I think the numbers create an important inconsistency people should keep track of.

I still believe flame masked 'tobi' (He never called himself that!) is another Uchiha. Kagami? I don't know, he was only in one chapter, but who else?

I think whoever flame masked villain was, was either obitos father, or someone who took him in...

[issa]

It all sounds plausible: Zetsu, Oro or 2 Madaras
I could be anything at this point.

[SilentBlade]

I will say that, I have a feeling where ever Orochimaru is taking Sasuke will probably provide some clarity also..there is something going on that just doesn't make sense. I am not sure if Kagami would have been involved or not, but he would have to have the same jutsu as Obito. The issue would still remain that Kagami would have to have an MS, would have to have survived etc...We also have no idea if Kagami would have any sort of ability either.

[issa]

Oro's and Sasuke's trip probably is tied to the issue. Maybe we'll get some flashbacks of Obito's rouge days and return to Sasuke for the final explanation.

[ObitoUchiha]

Originally Posted by SilentBlade

I will say that, I have a feeling where ever Orochimaru is taking Sasuke will probably provide some clarity also..there is something going on that just doesn't make sense. I am not sure if Kagami would have been involved or not, but he would have to have the same jutsu as Obito. The issue would still remain that Kagami would have to have an MS, would have to have survived etc...We also have no idea if Kagami would have any sort of ability either.

I've pointed out in other threads that I think Mangekyo sharingan's abilities are genetic.

The only ones to use Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi, and Susanoo are Itachi, sasuke, and Madara.

I think they were born from his side.

Izuna was a mystery, and so is Kagami.

I think someone, Kagami or not, had space time jutsu, kept it a secret, wore a mask, and messed with everyone.

Obito, after being saved by this man, decided he would fight, after his dad died.

Only after the orange spiral mask was shown did the masked man go by tobi.

Also, last one, I think Rin was kidnapped soon after Obito was saved. She healed him whilst His father (figure) saves him.

[Lia_Uchiha]

I agree with Orochimaru having a hand in this, he was obsessed with forbidden justu he could have done something to Obito just like he managed to make Sasuke as strong an ANBU shinobi within 3 years, maybe even stronger so why not Obito within a year?

[Nikola Sensei]

Yea I agree, but who said Tobi was Obito since beginning? I'd say that it's very possible that Madara was behind the mask when he launched an attack to Leaf by Nine tails...So age doesn't matter in that case...

[ObitoUchiha]

I think Madara really died at the fight he said he had.

After that, some one with great power (or someone's family... [hint hint OBITO]) donned a mask, said he was madara, and unleashed chaos.

[SilentBlade]

Originally Posted by ObitoUchiha

I've pointed out in other threads that I think Mangekyo sharingan's abilities are genetic.

The only ones to use Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi, and Susanoo are Itachi, sasuke, and Madara.

I think they were born from his side.

Izuna was a mystery, and so is Kagami.

I think someone, Kagami or not, had space time jutsu, kept it a secret, wore a mask, and messed with everyone.

Obito, after being saved by this man, decided he would fight, after his dad died.

Only after the orange spiral mask was shown did the masked man go by tobi.

Also, last one, I think Rin was kidnapped soon after Obito was saved. She healed him whilst His father (figure) saves him.

It would certainly be interesting if there were and entire society of these masked figures wouldn't it? Kind of like where Madara went, and found Uchiha dissenters to train them to eventually take on the world again? hmm...a secret society of Tobi's! and remember, we only got "Tobi" during the current time, the guy who attacked the leaf was nameless!

As for the MS abilities, you are right in some sense! we know that Itachi and Sasuke share abilities and that is probably because of their close relationship. We don't know a whole lot about Shisui, but we do know he has a special ability all his own! and while Amaterasu and Susan'o seam special, I believe if you have 2 MS eyes, those are typical powers...Itachi's special power was the nightmare realm.

But! don't forget that we still have to tie this individual to Orochimaru!

Edit:

Originally Posted by Nikola Sensei

Yea I agree, but who said Tobi was Obito since beginning? I'd say that it's very possible that Madara was behind the mask when he launched an attack to Leaf by Nine tails...So age doesn't matter in that case...

Age very much matter, Madara would have been around his 80's (give or take 10 years for). We see that the onset of age effects Shinobi quite a lot, even though Granny Chiyo is still strong, it highly limits ability. We see the same issue with Hiruzan when he fights Orochimaru, there is a substantial diminished power.

[ObitoUchiha]

Im saying Tobi was the name Obito went with, an anagram if you will.

I mean more like... Avatar the last airbender when it comes to the identity.

At any one time, only one masked villain. Tobi was the only one after Narutos birth. before that it was a different person.

[Raiden]

Originally Posted by SilentBlade

I say that so the Anime viewers don't pick up the spoiler..Ok, so like I've said, I don't really have an issuer per say, but I do wonder how this works! Just working a bit with age (which is a major factor here), we are given Kakashi's age and are told that in the current time he's about 30...I believe that's right! Now, we know that Naruto is about 16 (from his conversation with Minato)...

My issue would be that BASED on that, when the Kyuubi attack happened, and Tobi first appeared, Kakashi would have been 14, meaning 1 year after Kakashi chronicles happened (as the events that lead to Obito dying). That means in a SINGLE YEAR Obito would have been pulled from the rubble, healed up, awakened the MS, mastered the MS and his ability to control the Kyuubi, as well as gone from weak as heck to being on par with Minato...you see where I am going with this?

Now, of course there is the talking point with Madara teaching Obito, and even that has issues as well. Looking at Tsunade'sage, we can argue that during the current portion she is around 54, meaning during the initial attack, she was about 38, then we can state that she is 3 generations down from Madara. Then, on top of that, lets give each generation a value of about 20 years, so that means that during that time Madara would be around 80 years old, plus another 18 years (since Tsunade is around 38) so that makes him 98 years old at that time IF he survived the battle...

While we know what is in the chapter...I think the numbers create an important inconsistency people should keep track of.

Edit: It should be have been 88 in total with the extra 18 years, not 98, my mind started wandering just slightly faster than my hands..still pretty old when you consider Hiruzan died at 68.

Maybe if you red my theory, you wouldn't be asking stupid questions

[ObitoUchiha]

Well, if people read mine they still would.

We have theories, we don't 'know'.

We can guess. They can guess.

Deal. With. It.