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Old 07-03-2012, 05:31 AM   #1
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Default Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Location: Gaara vs. 2nd Miz
No Prep, all fighters begin in base form (i.e. Jiraiya does not start in SM)
Who wins? The Kage or the Sannin?
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

What can they do to Gaara?
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Not sure how fast Jiraya is normally, but he could probably blitz when he gets into sage mode.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Tsunade > Mei and Jiraiya > either Mei or Gaara 1v1 so the sannin win.

Tsunade's Byakugo lets her heal from many of the other team's attacks and gives her more speed to avoid them, also if she summons Katsuyu Mei won't have much of a defense for the acid slime.

Jiraiya could use his toads to avoid either Gaara's sand or Mei's lava, and considering Gamabunta's tongue alone blocked Gaara's sand in part 1 I would assume that the toads have enough size and durability to get past his sand. Jiraiya also has oil which is Gaara's known weakness.
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Mei lavas Tsunade's head off/Gaara Sand Coffins her. She ain't gonna use Byakugo under anything like normal circumstances.

So it's basically Jiraiya vs those two. And considering how well he did against Pain...
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Summoning would be a major factor in this battle, considering that is one of the reasons what made the Sannin so famous.

I imagine that this battle would most likely end up with Gaara vs Jiriaya, and Mei vs Tsunade.

Mei vs Tsunade
Although we have not seen much of Mei, and she has very few feats, she has not displayed any techniques that would deal with Tsunade and her summons. However, Tsunade would have to get in close for her to use her enhanced taijustu, which is definatly not going to happen, unless Tsunade could heal and just tank lava style ( which is very likely considering her healing seems to be practically instant.

In Gaara vs Jiriaya
Jiriah is usually shown to be jolly and goofy however considering how well he did against Pein he is obviously talented.

The biggest problem is that Gaara has alot of sand at his disposal especially in this environment, however when Jiriaya uses summoning he should have enough time to avoid the sand until he gathers enough sage chakra. Furthermore, after he enters sage mode, the battle would probably be over for Gaara. Gaara has no shown that much aptitude for deterring genjustu, especially senjustu empowered ones. Furthermore, a combination attack with his frogs, should be able to atleast counter Gaara's sand tsunami- even if it doesnot, Jiriaya has his summoning frog stomach feat, which could probably protect him from being crushed by sand.


However, lets say that instead of fighting separately, they tag team. This puts the kage's at a even lower percentage of winning, considering how many times Jiriaya has fought alongside with Tsunade.
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Since there are a number of people who seem to be going for team Sannin right now, I'm going to play devil's advocate and argue for Team Kage

@tsuki-This depends on if he gets into sage mode, and Gaara's sand is fast enough to block Amaterasu. SM Jiraiya is nowhere near that fast-no blitzing going on here.

@Kuromaki-When has Byakugou been proven to give Tsunade more speed? At any rate neither base Jiraiya or Tsunade have speed feats to prove they can escape Gaara's sand. Her Byakugou also isn't going to save her from lava, or, to borrow from Kimimaro, having all of her insides crushed beyond recognition in one Subaku Soso. Mei's lack of defensive feats aren't a problem-Gaara will defend her. As for the toads, Gaara wasn't attacking Gamabunta, but Naruto when the tongue got in the way, and if you remember it still failed as a defense. Also Current Gaara>>>>>Gaara from Gaara vs. Naruto. As commented by many characters his sand has gotten significantly faster and stronger and he can use copious amounts of it (enough to bury a boss frog) in the right environments. Oil isn't much of a problem for Gaara, since he has so much sand to work with in this environment.

@Naruto the Sage of Life: Lava is exponentially more damaging than fire attacks-I seriously doubt Tsunade could take a Yoton head on. Also, Frog Song is not as great as everyone on the forum cracks it up to be-it takes a long time to prepare, takes a long time to be performed, has to be performed just right, and has to be sung the whole way through to take effect. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you need to attack Ma+Pa/interrupt the song when they start it up, and it would be fairly easy to do. Finally, I don't really understand how Jiraiya's stomach summoning would protect him...

@everyone: Team Kage can fly-what do the Sannin plan to do about that?
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:15 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

^ Regarding Tsunade not surviving Mei and Gaara's attacks, keep in mind that Tsunade survived Lightspeed travel thats should have torn her apart with MR. In fact she didin't have MR active when she survived that, she used MR after said lightspeed travel to heal the damage that was done to her body.

Tsunade is probably the second fastest of the current 5 kage..........just sayin.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

i think that either Sannin could potentially solo, it sounds ridiculous from what other peopel have said in this thread so far, but together its a stomp. Onokki had 0 chakra left and tsunade was also exhausted, she pumped chakra into him and he created a giant jinton 1/2 the size of perfect susano'o and obliterated 25 ems level susanoo with ease. if she did that with jiraiya and one of his extremely powerful techniques(oil for starters which>gaara) then i'm afraid for what will happen to team gaara.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
@Kuromaki-When has Byakugou been proven to give Tsunade more speed? At any rate neither base Jiraiya or Tsunade have speed feats to prove they can escape Gaara's sand. Her Byakugou also isn't going to save her from lava, or, to borrow from Kimimaro, having all of her insides crushed beyond recognition in one Subaku Soso. Mei's lack of defensive feats aren't a problem-Gaara will defend her. As for the toads, Gaara wasn't attacking Gamabunta, but Naruto when the tongue got in the way, and if you remember it still failed as a defense. Also Current Gaara>>>>>Gaara from Gaara vs. Naruto. As commented by many characters his sand has gotten significantly faster and stronger and he can use copious amounts of it (enough to bury a boss frog) in the right environments. Oil isn't much of a problem for Gaara, since he has so much sand to work with in this environment.
Tsunade showed speed boost against Madara and she was able to deflect Maddy's dragon fireballs while she was tired and about to collapse. Jiraiya on the other hand was able to escape Pain boss summons on his toad all while prepping sage mode, and he is a Sannin who is considered on Orochimaru's level.

If Byakugou can save Tsunade from getting ripped to shreds, burned to death by fireballs and getting stabbed through the body by Susanoo. I'm sure she can survive getting some limbs caught in lava or sand. Plus she is probably strong and fast enough to break out of sand or avoid lava. If she isn't, there are Jiraiya boss toads and Katsuyu to consider...

What matters is that the tongue was strong enough to survive an attack meant to kill its target, and that was just the tongue, so I would imagine Gaara having difficulty killing a boss toad with his sand. Although his sand increased in speed during the time skip, that does not mean that the toads wouldn't be strong enough to fight it off or jump away from it. After all, Gamabunta fought the sand spirit itself.

All Jiraiya has to do is target the sand in certain areas to make it all crumble apart. At the very least, he can hold off some of the sand with what oil he has so that his toads or tsunade can go on the offensive. Also @ what amon the holy savior said, Tsunade can pump chakra into him so he can fire off a huge oil attack once they figure out Gaara's weakness.

Gamabunta can use massive water bullets as well which Gaara would have trouble blocking - knowing what happens to sand at the beach it would also be logical to assume that the water bullets will make his sand heavier and thus slow it down. That's if the water bullets don't just blast through the sand considering they clashed with Shukaku's wind bullet that drilled through a forest. Katsuyu's acid attack gives no warning and covers a huge area, plus she can divide if sand or lava get to her, and give Tsunade's healing or chakra to Jiraiya.
Quote:
@everyone: Team Kage can fly-what do the Sannin plan to do about that?
dem boss toads can jump really high doe. Not that the sannin would sit there and let them have an aerial advantage.

Also, Jiraiya can summon more than one, so potentially Team Kage could be fighting off 3 giant toads + a giant slug + 2 Sannin who are already beasts by themselves.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

@Sagepain-Tsunade had only a few cuts on her after the teleportation (before she activated Genesis Rebirth) and Raikage had no damage...Mabui's technique is not as damaging as she cracked it up to be. I am in no way convinced that she can survive being melted by lava or survive a sand funeral which crushes the body in an instant-i.e. she has no time to heal as opposed to being stabbed or burned by something. Tsunade may be the 2nd fastest Kage on the ground, but Gaara and Onoki are faster when flying. This isn't saying too much anyway since none of the Kages have any amazing speed feats aside from Raikage.

@amon-More chakra does not not necessarily mean bigger techniques, you're still limited by your own ability. Onoki was already capable of using a dust release attack that large-all Tsunade did was replenish his chakra pool. Edo Madara never runs out of chakra, but that doesn't mean he can create a fireball as big as the world.

@Kuromaki-Being tired and blocking the fireballs show stamina, not raw speed. Jiraiya's toads avoiding Pain's summons (which aren't noted for being fast) and being a Sannin also do not show speed. Sand death is instantaneous, done by intense pressure-she has no time to heal from it as opposed to being stabbed and burned. Lava death is just a difference of opinion-IMO Tsunade hasn't healed from anything as damaging as lava.
As for the toads, Gaara has a ton of sand to work with in this environment-if he couldn't just bury them he'd at least be able to crush their legs leaving the Sannin at a disadvantage with Gaara and Mei in the air. The oil advantage here is fundamentally different than with the Mizukage-the Mizukage's whole body was made of oil, so Gaara couldn't crush him, Jiraiya doesn't have that- as soon as he's caught it's over. Jiraiya has never been shown to be capable of summoning more than one boss frog at a time.

Also, what defense do the Sannin have against a large scale water attack from Mei? I can see Jiraiya going for a fire/oil combo with Bunta and then Mei overpowering it with water. Yes, water hasn't been shown to kill anyone, but like Kages vs. Madara, Gaara could put sand in Mei's large scale water attack and bind the Sannin with that trick...or just use a large scale sand tsunami from the outset...
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime Kazekage View Post
@Kuromaki-Being tired and blocking the fireballs show stamina, not raw speed. Jiraiya's toads avoiding Pain's summons (which aren't noted for being fast) and being a Sannin also do not show speed. Sand death is instantaneous, done by intense pressure-she has no time to heal from it as opposed to being stabbed and burned. Lava death is just a difference of opinion-IMO Tsunade hasn't healed from anything as damaging as lava.
As for the toads, Gaara has a ton of sand to work with in this environment-if he couldn't just bury them he'd at least be able to crush their legs leaving the Sannin at a disadvantage with Gaara and Mei in the air. The oil advantage here is fundamentally different than with the Mizukage-the Mizukage's whole body was made of oil, so Gaara couldn't crush him, Jiraiya doesn't have that- as soon as he's caught it's over. Jiraiya has never been shown to be capable of summoning more than one boss frog at a time.

Also, what defense do the Sannin have against a large scale water attack from Mei? I can see Jiraiya going for a fire/oil combo with Bunta and then Mei overpowering it with water. Yes, water hasn't been shown to kill anyone, but like Kages vs. Madara, Gaara could put sand in Mei's large scale water attack and bind the Sannin with that trick...or just use a large scale sand tsunami from the outset...
It shows speed because she was fast enough to intercept an attack from Madara, who wanted to get in close and end it.

What makes Pain's best summons so slow? He's Pain, after all. Jiraiya avoided Konan's attacks too and kept up with Orochimaru when he was drugged (to be fair, Orochimaru was armless but he could still attack with his other.. parts). Jiraiya was also fast enough to react to and summon a toad to block Kisame's Samehada when Itachi & Kisame were in konoha. Itachi & Kisame respected Jiraiya's powers, if jiraiya was such a slow and weak ninja they wouldn't have bothered. Speed isn't everything, all that matters is that the Sannin will be fast enough to react to the Kage's attacks. And in the scenario that Jiraiya uses SM, good game.

I'm sure tsunade would die if her whole body was crushed in the sand, but logically she would take care to avoid it as best she could, and try to break out of it in the instance that she does get caught.

Jiraiya can do those underground attacks too, Dark Swamp anyone? And the toads can jump to avoid their legs getting caught in sand.

True that Jiraiya can't turn into oil like the Mizukage, but it is still a big part of his moveset and he can spit out enough to defend himself. Gamabunta can spit out oil too, actually, along with the massive scale water bullets that I mentioned previously.

Jiraiya never showed that he could summon more than one toad on panel but that doesn't mean he can't He has shown the chakra capacity to summon multiple toads (he was never tired or fatigued after summoning one) and he did manage to summon Shima & Fukasaku who are insanely powerful :P

Toad Oil Flame Bullet is bigger than Madara's fire attack, and unlike Madara's fire attack, it's powered with oil so Mei would have more trouble countering that. At best, their attacks would probably cancel out.

If Gaara uses sand tsunami the sannin have time to summon and get away from it. Gaara's dad i believe had enough time to talk with the other kages, put his hands on the ground, and counter sand tsunami with gold.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

gaara and mei are IMO too dangerous. remember meis lava would burn past most of waht jiraiya throws at them. her suitons countered madaras katons meaning jiraiyas katons are no problem. gaara has sensor sand which makes him immune to the effects of kirigakure no jutsu. sure jiraiya may decide "i should go to SM" but that takes time. time he doesnt have against gara whos powerful enough to attack from every single direction, including underground. swamp of the underworld would only prompt gaara to take flight above the mist and drop sand hail and sand spears.
if gaara has mei with him when he flies, then mei can just drop acid mist and melt team 2.

Quote:
Jiraiya could use his toads to avoid either Gaara's sand
gaaras sand reacted to and blocked 5 susano swords and amaterasu

Quote:
oil for starters which>gaara
sand pyramid > oil
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Gaara blocked blaze release not amaterasu itself, susanoo swords sure but that was more impressive in terms of durability.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

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Gaara blocked blaze release not amaterasu itself, susanoo swords sure but that was more impressive in terms of durability.
Actually, it was the other way around. Gaara's sand was the one attacking, and Sasuke had to block it with an Enton.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:30 AM   #16
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Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.Shikamaru Nara is the subject of legends and tales that shall be passed on for generations to come.

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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Jiraiya kills Tsunade for sucking.
Jiraiya kills himself for touching Tsunade.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:44 AM   #17
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

the Sannin win.

Mei is just holding Garra back.

The Sannin both summon Katsyu and Gama. Does Garra have enough sand to hold both of them???

Mei's only stength is long ranged Jutsu so if the sannin get close to her the battle is over for her
Tsunade>Mei Jiryira>Mei

Garra is the only threat
Garra> Tsunade
Garra>Jiryria
Garra<Tsunade and Jiryria

How do you kill Katysu by the why??? Tsunades strength would easily be able to break free of the sand.

Jiryira just has to stall with frogs.

SoTU would take care of Mei or slug acid

Once Jiryia goes Sage mode it is all over his genjutsu would take care of Mei and Garra.

How can Gara solo the Sannin
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

@megabbaut yeah exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
Mei is just holding Garra back.
Mei never holds anyone back bro

If I were to debate for the Kages, Mei would actually be pretty helpful since she can hold off Tsunade at least temporarily
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuromaki View Post
@megabbaut yeah exactly


Mei can hold off Tsunade at least temporarily
I know Mei is your fav character But come on she is not even very helpful in this war right now.

The ony thing that Mei can do is constantly use Boil to keep Tsunade at distance...BUT that will not help because Tsunade summons Kaytsu to spam acid ( Mei is not really that fast)

Mei would not last long.

Garra is then busy trying to chase down Jiryira. Jiryria can evade by
1) Reverse summoning
2) Using 3 boss toads to attacks Garra with oil/water attacks
3) Hiding in their mouth
4) Jiryia gets on toad and they hop away from sand attacks

Eventually it will be Jiryria and Tsunade vs Garra. There is no way Garra can beat both with Tsunade healing injuries and Jiryria using INCREDIBLE SAGE ATTACKS
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mei and Gaara vs. Tsunade and Jiraiya

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace View Post
I know Mei is your fav character But come on she is not even very helpful in this war right now.

The ony thing that Mei can do is constantly use Boil to keep Tsunade at distance...BUT that will not help because Tsunade summons Kaytsu to spam acid ( Mei is not really that fast)

Mei would not last long.

Garra is then busy trying to chase down Jiryira. Jiryria can evade by
1) Reverse summoning
2) Using 3 boss toads to attacks Garra with oil/water attacks
3) Hiding in their mouth
4) Jiryia gets on toad and they hop away from sand attacks

Eventually it will be Jiryria and Tsunade vs Garra. There is no way Garra can beat both with Tsunade healing injuries and Jiryria using INCREDIBLE SAGE ATTACKS
son, she put out Madara's fire and saved Tsunade's life. Tsunade is currently the most helpful one in the war along with Onoki. Without Mei, she would be dead.

she used hidden mist which enabled for Onoki & A to attack Madara. She used lava which helped A attack Madara which helped stall for Tsunade to heal Gaara and Onoki.

Mei's lava or boil release can take care of Katsuyu. There's no rule saying Katsuyu is immune to being melted to death.

Well, now I'm playing devil's advocate, though I believe the sannin would win.
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