Mei vs. Hiruzen

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Kuromaki

chapter 563, chapter 577, chapter 465 and chapter 466. I cbf to say anything else right now and i gotta go.

577- Mei is inspired by Tsunade to use water dragon to defeat Madara attack

563- Tsunade heals Onoki and Garra while A yells at Mei to get started. Madara dodges a powerful Lava attack

465/466- Mei uses lava to attack saskue but it misses and he ddoges Boil almost kills a weak and tired saskue


Not that impressive. There is no speed in this and lava is easy to dodge and boil is only effective in small spaces which she barely uses

[Kuromaki]

I really don't want to type up yet another wall of text to explain Mei's feats, so here: http://naruto.viz.com/forum/showpost...9&postcount=12

Now that that's out of the way, if Mei's attacks are so slow and easy to avoid, can you provide feats for Hiruzen that would let him overpower them?

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

I recall...

Hiruzen fighting both kages up front and he was able to land a bomb on both of the kages legs

my main points are
1. Mei is only good at ninjutsu so with the close distance he would be able to hit her before she can finish hand seals
2. lava is mid to short range and is not very fast
3. boil is not an instant kill also he can use enma to hit her in boil
4. Hiruzen has excellent sensing skills and can find Mei in Mist
5. Water style is her only way to win. AND WATER STYLE NEVER KILLED ANYONE. Hiruzen can dodge with shadow clones
6. Hiurzen has enma... so it is 2v1
7. The best Mei can do is a tie cuz of Hiruzen sealing
8. Mei could never do as well as Hiruazn did when he fought Oro and edos
9. Mei has less experience and stamina
10. Hiruzen home field advantage
11. Hiruzen is getting held back because he does not have anime feats

What does Mei have against Hiruzen??

Hiruzen has too many advantages: stamina, strenght, taijutsu, genjutsu, sensing, home field, experience

Mei's only advantage is ninjutsu and hand signs speed

How does Mei beat enma
When has Lava style hit its mark? It is a slower attack and Boil takes a while to kill the foe

Water drgaon is her only way of winning and Hiruzen can make some clones to go in different directions. Or use Enma staff or ninja tool to defeat it. Hiruzen also has good distance to evade or run away

Their speed is equal what can Mei do that Hiruzen has not and vice versa

How does Mei win with JUST water style and slow lava style?

Hizen uses a giant staff to hit her in the mist and uses fire style to win. He stays out of her mist and he can get ready when he sees a water dragon coming for him

Hiruzen wins

[Cult of Personality]

Prove Hiruzen is stronger than Mei.
Prove he has better taijutsu.
Prove he has any genjutsu whatsoever.
Prove their speed is equal.
Prove lava style is slow.

[PrinceofPeace]

Originally Posted by Cult of Personality

Prove Hiruzen is stronger than Mei.
Prove he has better taijutsu.
Prove he has any genjutsu whatsoever.
Prove their speed is equal.
Prove lava style is slow.

You prove that Mei is better

a tired Saskue avoided lava

Mei has not shown anykind of strenght/taijutsu to beat Hiruzen. Hiruzen was able to fight through the wood style to summon Enma and use taijutsu to fight edos. Enma has better strenght/taijutsu than Mei

Mei has shown nothing in genjutsu or she would have tried to release A from genjutsu

They both have shown equal ability
- Mei kicking zetsu
- Hirzuen reaction time to edo's

[Cult of Personality]

You say Hiruzen is better, you prove it.

And none of that is actual proof by the way. Just wankery and bullcrap.

Chapter and page numbers if you've got the mental capacity for it.

[PrinceofPeace]

It is WAYYYY better than ur proof

You wanted proof I gave it... now how about you TRY and do the same

[Cult of Personality]

Once again, you make a claim you provide proof. It's not my job to provide proof to the contrary.

Provide chapter and page numbers to support your claims or admit that you are wrong.

[PrinceofPeace]

you just ask for proof. You do not even say how Mei wins or losses

I did not give exact page # put I do give examples of what happened.

[Cult of Personality]

This message is hidden because PrinceofPeace is on your ignore list.

I don't know why I didn't think to do this sooner.

So does everyone agree that Mei wins?

[PrinceofPeace]

No in fact I believe most people said Hiruzen

[Cult of Personality]

I'm glad you agree with me, PrinceofPeace.

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

Hiruzen has too many advantages: stamina, strenght, taijutsu, genjutsu, sensing, home field, experience

Mei's only advantage is ninjutsu and hand signs speed

How does Mei beat enma
When has Lava style hit its mark? It is a slower attack and Boil takes a while to kill the foe

Water drgaon is her only way of winning and Hiruzen can make some clones to go in different directions. Or use Enma staff or ninja tool to defeat it. Hiruzen also has good distance to evade or run away

Their speed is equal what can Mei do that Hiruzen has not and vice versa

How does Mei win with JUST water style and slow lava style?

Hizen uses a giant staff to hit her in the mist and uses fire style to win. He stays out of her mist and he can get ready when he sees a water dragon coming for him

Hiruzen wins

She doesn't have to beat Enma, she just has to fend him off

Prove that lava is slow. Boil release melted through Susanoo, Hiruzen is not as durable as Susanoo.

How do you use ninja tools and a staff to defeat a giant water dragon exactly? Hiruzen can't make too many clones or he will tire out.

Hiruzen can't use fire style to win. Mei has her own fire style along with a way way way superior water style that will extinguish anything Hiruzen tries to use.

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

You prove that Mei is better

a tired Saskue avoided lava

Mei has not shown anykind of strenght/taijutsu to beat Hiruzen. Hiruzen was able to fight through the wood style to summon Enma and use taijutsu to fight edos. Enma has better strenght/taijutsu than Mei

Mei has shown nothing in genjutsu or she would have tried to release A from genjutsu

They both have shown equal ability
- Mei kicking zetsu
- Hirzuen reaction time to edo's

I already gave feats for this, you provide your own. I'm sure it's not that hard to give the chapter and page # for notable Hiruzen feats, given that his fight is only in like chapters 120-122

Mei couldn't break A out of genjutsu because she was far away getting her ass kicked by other susanoos ._. besides, what does genjutsu have to do in this fight? Hiruzen has shown none.

[PrinceofPeace]

How does she fend off enma. Also Boil does not cover the whole area. Hiruzen has the distance to dodge it

When has lava ever hit the target and Lava could not even hit a tired Saskue

Hiruzen makes at least 3 clones to go in different directions. explosive kunai can at least slow it down. Plus water style never killed anybody

What fire attacks can Mei use?

Nobody has said how Mei wins

[megabbaut]

She wins with seduction since Hiruzen was affected by Naruto's sexy jutsu
Lava should take care of everything Hiruzen takes out.

[PrinceofPeace]

HOW?!?!?!?

When has Lava ever hit the target???? Lava is mid-short range so it will not help Mei out too much

[Kuromaki]

Originally Posted by PrinceofPeace

How does she fend off enma. Also Boil does not cover the whole area. Hiruzen has the distance to dodge it

When has lava ever hit the target and Lava could not even hit a tired Saskue

Hiruzen makes at least 3 clones to go in different directions. explosive kunai can at least slow it down. Plus water style never killed anybody

What fire attacks can Mei use?

Nobody has said how Mei wins

She fends off enma by covering the area in lava, which will hurt him, or using acid on him, or blocking his attacks with water jutsu to keep him at bay, etc.

Boil release is like hidden mist. It spreads over the whole area eventually. Anyway, Hiruzen will have difficulty getting up close without harming himself due to the acid.

Tired sasuke without susanoo is still pretty fast seeing as he reacted to Mifune and blocked his sword strike. The lava still reached the entrance to the hallway before Sasuke could, pretty impressive. Also, where are the speed feats proving that Hiruzen can dodge a large scale lava attack(think Chapter 563), since you're always asking me for Mei's feats?

Mei can just melt the clones or use a massive water jutsu to defend herself from them. Water release is a good defensive jutsu and I don't think you realize the scale of Mei's suiton, go back to chapter 577.

Water style has never killed anybody? That's like saying Hiruzen's staff and Hiruzen's fire jutsu have never killed someone (which if you're going by on panel feats, is true). Water style can still drown someone, and at the very least Mei can use it to defend herself.

Idk, but since she was born with fire nature, is a Kage level ninja, and has it in both of her Kekkei Genkai, she should be pretty good with it. She can either use fire jutsu to cancel out Hiruzen's, or like I said use her water jutsu.

Mei wins by burning him, melting him, or drowning him. There.

[PrinceofPeace]

She can not cover the WHOLE area in lava. That would take too much chakra and Mei does not have stamina. She can not even cover the whole field in acid. Enma can still hurt her through the acid. Enma would take damage but so would Mei.

To cover the whole Chunnin Exams area that would take a lot of Chakra and Mei does not have that much stamina. Even if it did Hiruzen can leave the area.

I said water style has never killed anyone i never said it can not kill anyone

there is no evidence of Mei having a fire attack so it can not be used

Hiruzen kept up with wood style for a while with his speed.Also the clones can still run in different directions. Not only does water dragon a good defense but it gives off her position.

Also it takes time for the acid to cover the whole area. With the distance Hiruzen can try and force Mei into close combat. Hiruzen would suffer damage but with his stamina he can endure it enough to land some fatal blows

[Kuromaki]

Idk about Mei not having stamina, man. She fought off black zetsu and then managed to fight alongside the kages. Hiruzen doesn't have much stamina in his old age and could barely make 2-3 clones. This is also on the Hokage rooftop, not the Chuunin Exams stadium (but in the stadium it would be worse for Hiruzen since gases spread faster in an enclosed area).

So Enma is melting to death while Mei is chilling, avoiding his attacks and blocking them?

There is, in fact, evidence of Mei using fire nature. Just by the fact that she has both Boil and Lava Release.

Hiruzen blocked like one wood attack using his adamantine cage. Good thing the cage has gaps, which Mei can exploit.

The water dragon gives off her position, but I think Hiruzen and the clones would be more worried about not getting pushed away by the current.

He forces her into close combat, she uses close range lava or suiton to fend him off again. There is no way he's surviving an Acid Mist attack either.

[PrinceofPeace]

She is always giving up. Mei told A that they were out of options and A had to tell her to shut up. Mei also has low stamina because she could not even save Tsunade from Madara's fire attacks. REALLY what has she done in the war??? I am mad because I used to LOVE MEI but now she is not living up to expectations

Hiruzen has WAYYYYY more stamina than Mei. He has the WILL OF FIRE!!!! While Mei has the Will to give up. He survived and did not give up. He was able to take out both edos and force Oro not to use ninjutsu. If it was not for Hiruzen Saskue would be dead and we would alll be in trouble. He survived a sword to his chest and struggled to take Oro's soul. HOW DOES HIRUZEN NOT HAVE STAMINA????

The barriers are not on the rooftop so Hiruzen can still easily move around and have plenty of distance

It would take time for Enma to be defeated in staff form just by acid.

I know she has a fire nature but we have not seen any fire attacks. For all we know it could not be her speciality or she has weaker firea attacks

Enma would not do the cage it would not help instead they gain distance or attack right away before the acid spreads and gets worse

It is a huge dragon but it still has to go after 3 Hiruzen's and a ape

Enma would take the hit of lava. Some of her attacks require hand seals. When she is making the hand seals he has time to attack. The acid is not an automatic kill that attack takes time