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Old 06-27-2012, 03:16 PM   #61
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Must be hard to contradict yourself, and have no answer to fall back on.
But hey, calling straw man on a direct counter to your statement will work for you. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I suppose. I didn't really misrepresent, nor did I bother to only quote certain parts to misrepresent your statement.

I quoted the parts that were necessary to counteract your point, but I left breaking your post to you.

I didn't even need to make a real rebuttal, in fact my entire post could've been done with just your two quotes.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:21 PM   #62
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Irony: verb: PEE-zuh: Simian teapots place great emphasis on pie making

In the Wizard of Oz, there was a scarecrow. A man of straw. A straw man if you will.

What was it he lacked? Was it a heart? No. Courage? Nah. A way home? So close. No, it was a brain wasn't it?


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Originally Posted by Cult of Personality View Post
By accepting the premise that such a character exists, you can not therefore argue against it without selectively denying this very facet of the character, which I believe is called a Straw Man fallacy.

J'accuse! You are guilty of constructing a straw man. You have attempted to selectively disregard the basic premise of omnipotence in your attempt to rebutt said omnipotence and in doing so have proven yourself (not for the first time) foolish in excess.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #63
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Oh dear.... an "omnipotence vs" debate
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #64
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

By accepting such a character exists, you cannot claim one cannot argue against it because the facets of the character cannot be completely defined and thus, are all open for disagreement as theres no way to refute any point made. I can argue against it all day because its something thats entire existance is the ideal of definition.

Plus I never accepting such a being existed, and have in fact argued to the point that not only do no such beings exist, but the entire premise of "omnipotence" is a flawed and unusable facet of a character in general to no rebuttal of merit.

I'm not straw manning, I'm debating a point to which you are commiting a straw man by misrepresenting my argument.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #65
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Refusal to accept premise of "omnipotent" +1

Trying to define omnipotence as something other than what it is for the purposes of somehow "debunking" it. +1

Insisting on dragging it out when it's clear to anyone that you're wrong. +1
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #66
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Don't like omnipotence as a concept, don't use it. Don't go into threads about it. You'll get nothing but people who are willing and able to debunk your silly attempts at straw manning your way around it. Everyone goes home happy.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #67
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

This thread`s debate is finished and should be locked!!!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #68
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Shoulda been locked the instant it was made.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:12 PM   #69
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Sorry, I left to nom chips.

"Don't like omnipotence as a concept?" I love it as a concept because its a weak and feeble word when its a concept. Your entire point, neigh your entire argument is around the premise of what a word means. Mine is all about how its just a word.

Discord is an omnipotent.
I said it, and looking at the word and how Discord seems to fit it, that means that TOAA can't beat him without destroying the concept of "omnipotence".

Your counter is "Something something flame something something straw man"
Followed by "something something wank something fanboyism something flame"

All of which is fine and dandy until you realize your arguing a word against something that goes beyond words, then it turns into

"I can't rationalize that the term omnipotence is a label and self-defeating in its purpose, but I'm going to point and say you don't understand what omnipotence is, thus turning your argument into mush."

To which I counter "I know what it is to the point where your only fallback is a definition limited by human comprehension"

"OH, but to accept it might exist means you can't argue against it"

"Or I can accept the term exists and argue against its lack of ability to substitute in for a facet."


I like debating against Devil's lawyer. Even when he is in right field, he can work around obsticles in his path. You haven't moved yet, and its fine that way because your not getting much of anywhere. Can't proof him to be omnipotent? Then proof him to be more powerful than discord.

But if all you have is "he is called omnipotent" then you might as well go and nom some chips yourself. Thats an old hat, and as much as you'd hate to admit it I've already brought into question the validity of simply terming someone something.

Which brings me to my previous point.
Discord is omnipotent. What can you do about it? If we are using words as evidence in here, then you are stuck.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #70
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Also I didnt make this topic, so yeah <_<

On second thought, lock this. Its not common enough that something like this will occur, so theres no point in praddling on about it like old ninnies right now. If the time comes we can discuss it further, but as for now I tire of going in circles.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:33 PM   #71
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

No, by claiming that omnipotence is "just a word" you are selectively denying parts of it in an attempt to get around it. Hence, Straw Man.

More Discord wank.

Oh look, another straw man. You could at least have the decency to pretend you're not using them.

I have not begun to flame you. When I'm flaming you, you'll know it. Generally I use the word "idiot" alot, but in a pinch I may get anatomical.

This next part is just you soliloquizing about how great your straw man arguments are and how out of my depth I am and aren't I just a stupid face. I know what everyone is thinking. Where does FN get all that straw?

I move when there's need for me to move. All you've done is try and straw man your way around the basic premise of the argument, and when that failed, straw man your way around me. So there's no reason to change my stance since you're not doing anything to challenge it.

You're not the first person to question the ability to properly...I don't know the word...like categorize but not...the concept of omnipotence and you won't be the last.

Regardless of whether you believe that defining something as infinite somehow proves it is not infinite, the fact will remain that omnipotence is infinite, all powerful, all everything forever and ever and there is nothing you can ever do to change that.

Discord can be accepted as omnipotent when the writer says so. Until then it's just wank by someone who doesn't want to admit that Discord is capable of losing.

So please, stop.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:51 PM   #72
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Blah blah, you took so long to type all of that up.
So if you want to keep going, I can. Your argument is non-existant by this point and all your doing is trying to break down small pieces of mine.

I can deny omnipotence as a whole by claiming its "just a word". Perhaps you don't know what a strawman truly is, or perhaps thats the only fallacy you know aside from no-limits and you believe it applies. Good and jolly, you are more knowledgeable than some debaters.

However, taking your entire premise and turning it down in the light that its a definition and has no existant backing aside is no straw-man. I can't change omnipotence? Of course I can, after all, the people who made the word changed it as well.

I'm fully aware Discord is capable of losing, I have no quarrel with that. I do, however, have issues with people using words and believing thats the end-all. So whats your premise?

"
Regardless of whether you believe that defining something as infinite somehow proves it is not infinite, the fact will remain that omnipotence is infinite, all powerful, all everything forever and ever and there is nothing you can ever do to change that." Should about sum it up, yes?
So I can avoid "straw-manning" you, as you should claim, I'd like you to summerize your statement into simpler terms, perhaps something so simple that it could fit into one or two sentences instead of 4 or 5 paragraphs?

That way if I am straw-manning, it'll be blatantly obvious instead of what you believe is straw-manning. I've already done it plenty of times in the whole "Omnipotence itself is a concept, Change is a open force beyond control." statement, whats your basis?
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:03 PM   #73
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Otherwise I've already asked this be closed since I'm honestly too lazy to keep pressing the point and its too uncommon to keep going on about.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:26 PM   #74
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

lol frosty, use the edit button
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:35 PM   #75
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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The thread will remain open for now.
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As long as she's not breaking any rules, she can be as stubborn as she pleases.
you both have a job to do under these rules she must be punished

oh and being stubborn when you're wrong would count towards trolling as far as those rules are concerned

this section will no longer protect opinions that are stupid or misinformed or biased, you have a duty to uphold the rules do you not? end this farce and rake her over the coals
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:40 PM   #76
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

If an omnipotent can be defeated then it's not an omnipotent. It really is that simple.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #77
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

I didn't say she wasnt being a troll or whatever. The thread barely had a life.
Anyway I do agree it is time for a lock.
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Old 06-27-2012, 07:27 PM   #78
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Heat death! An omnipotent changes the entropy to the universe to it highest level.

Change ceases to exist. Also, there is no power to resist this(except other omnipotent) as ALL powers is even spread through the entire universe.

Also, there are no conceptual forces as there is no one to think them as thinking would require a non-heat death universe. The omnipotent need not consider any thought or conceptual force, so those also cease to exist.
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