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Old 06-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #41
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru Nara View Post
Precisely that.
If the author says it, it's true.

It's different than hype.
"Word of god" requires feats to be validated.
Otherwise what happens when the author claims naruto to be a god, or edward elrich with philosopher stone overdose? People step in and say "nope, feats say otherwise".
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:27 PM   #42
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
Because to disprove their omnipotence all we would have to do is pit them against another omnipotent.
Hence the whole "relative aspect" in that too only because they are multiple authors creating multiple fictional series.

Its the only reason why there are multiple "omnipotents".

While it is true no one can actually fathom what omnipotence is.

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As I said, Kami Tenchi vs TOAA, who would win?
Or TOAA vs all, who would win?
There is no winner in that one.

The latter is just an endless loophole of debate with immense unnecessary circle jerking but anyway we are not discussing that.

THis is about Discord.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

This is about change.
Can an omnipotent eliminate the source of their power, can a conceptual force (omni) eliminate an actual force?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:30 PM   #44
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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By definition omnipotence can not fail to do something unless it specifically chooses to.

An omnipotent being can do anything without limit or restriction. Period.

Frost Ninja's "arguments" are meaningless from start to finish. Just rehashing the same old tired and annoying arguments that got My Little Pony threads banned, I.E. Discord > omnipotent, which is axiomatically untrue.

And since we all know that Frost Ninja is never going to admit to being wrong, I vote this thread be locked with extreme prejudice.
This is my infallible logic and it still stands.
Grovel grovel grovel.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:31 PM   #45
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
This is about change.
Can an omnipotent eliminate the source of their power, can a conceptual force (omni) eliminate an actual force?
You want feats?

Alright what has Discord done?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #46
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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nbfkldsngf,dsg
I already went through how your idea is flawed in the ideal of omnipotence being a conceptual force stuck to following the rules we've set for it.

Using the word "by definition" invalidates your argument since your only case resides on what we have designated an omnipotent to be. In other words, omnipotence is only as power as human comprehension. Change goes far beyond that marker.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:34 PM   #47
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Originally Posted by 321zigzag3 View Post
You want feats?

Alright what has Discord done?
Why do I need feats? As you said, an omnipotent doesn't need feats.
So shall we stare at each other, or will you say I need to feat him an omnipotent so I can ask the same of you?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:35 PM   #48
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

No you didn't, you've just spouted the same BS that's been dsebunked time and time again when you tried to use it to make Discord omnipotent+.

It was garbage then and it's more than garbage now.

Once again:S since we all know that Frost Ninja is never going to admit to being wrong, I vote this thread be locked with extreme prejudice.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:37 PM   #49
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

The thread will remain open for now.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Even though FN is plainly trolling and is doing nothing but causing trouble?
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:39 PM   #51
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Originally Posted by Frost ninja View Post
Why do I need feats? As you said, an omnipotent doesn't need feats.
I am only doing it because you wanted it.

Quote:
So shall we stare at each other, or will you say I need to feat him an omnipotent so I can ask the same of you?
Are you really truly going to argue which state of "infinite concepts" are higher?

Even without feats.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:41 PM   #52
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Fair enough. But lets start with TOAA since I've listed what discord has earlier in the topic.


I'll argue the ideal of concept versus an actual thing.

Feats are the only way to go according to the rules of the BG.

@cult
Prove me wrong then, prove a concept limited by human comprehension can outdo an actual force that not only provides the basis for an omnipotent to exist but exists despite the existance of others of its kind. Change doesn't depend on being the only one of its kind to keep itself validated, after all. I'd say it persists beyond requiring an omnipotent to be the only one. Plus change exists everywhere, even beyond what we deem possible or impossible.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:41 PM   #53
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Even though FN is plainly trolling and is doing nothing but causing trouble?
As long as she's not breaking any rules, she can be as stubborn as she pleases.
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12:11 PM So you enter the debate with full knowledge that you know nothing of worth on the subject, and then state you will not make an effort to learn. Way to be poster-boy for blight of the forum. Leave discussions of intelligence to those that have it.

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Old 06-27-2012, 02:44 PM   #54
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

It's impossible to prove omnipotence with feats, which is why omnipotent characters are rarely if ever used in serious vs matches and when they do, they cause lots of arguments because some yahoo insists that X character isn't actually omnipotent and their favorite character (like *picks character at random* say, Discord from My Little Pony) is for no reason other than because they say so.

Fancy that.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Or because people don't like backless claims.

If you can't win outside of "omnipotent gg" then we might as well peg Edward on philso-stone overdose on the same tier as TOAA since the author marked him as a "god".

EDIT: Or Discord, since there was no proven limit to his powers.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:56 PM   #56
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

No, it's definitely what I said. Assuming a character has no limits because he has shown no limits is a no limits fallacy. Omnipotent characters are characters designated to bypass this fallacy because it is a part of their character. Their omnipotence can not be defied or redefined . If it can, then they aren't omnipotent. By accepting the premise that such a character exists, you can not therefore argue against it without selectively denying this very facet of the character, which I believe is called a Straw Man fallacy.

Omnipotence is infinite by definition. You pretend that this can be changed by our perception, but it is not any more than the concept of cold can be redefined as broccoli.

Supposing we can arbitrarily decided that concepts are other than what they are for no reason other than to win an argument on the internet: Rather than being the act or instance of making or becoming different, change is in fact the muscles responsible for excreting solid waste from the human body.

Similarly, conceptual is just another word for "covered in butter". Nothing more, nothing less.

This thread has no point. There is nothing to be accomplished here. No one is going to redefine omnipotence just because you're butthurt that Discord isn't all powerful.

Persistence is not a substitute for skill and rational thinking.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:03 PM   #57
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

If Author states character is Omnipotent you should assume so.

If narrator states so, the same thing!!!
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:05 PM   #58
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

Save in cases where this is directly contradicted by actions currently being commented on,
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:07 PM   #59
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

For all of your claim, you said two things...

"Their omnipotence cannot be defined or redefined. If it can, then they aren't omnipotent."

And then

"Omnipotence is infinite by definition"

By defining it, you've just proven theres no validity behind "omnipotence". Further, calling them omnipotent ceases their omnipotence as your defining them by a word.


The rest of it is pretty flat, same old denial. I don't really need to flaunt "skill and rational thinking" when your post wins me the point. I could care less about discord tbh, I care about people making feated claims in accordance to the rules, so the easiest way to do so is to give you a situation you can't hope to beat otherwise.

Going off of definition to describe something that, as you just said, can't be defined and still maintain itself to combat something that goes far beyond the scope of power that the word would entail is all thats necessary. Theres no way to claim "omnipotence" without sacrificing omnipotence for the character by defining them under that word and our rules of what applies to it.
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:11 PM   #60
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Default Re: omnipotence vs conceptual forces

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Blah blah Straw Man blah blah
Yeah, that's what I thought you'd say.
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