Who is stronger Itachi or Pain ??? Plz tell why!

[flash0212]

Hey i looked at a forum putting the strongest akatsuki member to the weakest almost all put Itachi above Pain. Heres one question didn't Madara say that the step above the ems(eternal mangenko sharingan) was the rinnegan? And Itachi only has ms(mangenko sharigan). Also Pain can take ppls souls and revive ppl. So i wanna know how Itachi is stronger if Pain has the powers of the sage of six paths the strongest ninja ever.

[Warrior3]

now I believe Itachi is stronger lol

[Maruko]

Itachi- probably smarter and more powerful with tactics
Pein- Stronger Ninjutsu in general, stronger brute force AKA bigger alpha damage

[radwan rushdi]

pain is the pain i become happy when naruto kill him

[Maruko]

Naruto didn't kill Pein, dude.

[radwan rushdi]

i think pain stronger than itachi

[radwan rushdi]

itachi is strong at genjutsu

[flash0212]

i guess mabe itachi could use izanagi to kill pain im not sure though

[LilHinataGirl]

I can equally see them both strong, but Itachi is recommended to be strong, since he's the only one who cheated off Kabuto's Jutsu so where as Kabuto couldn't use him as his "Doll"
...
Itachi has shown a well talented fact for the war, and so has Sasuke so its a believeable state of mind.

[Sasori Red Sand]

Originally Posted by flash0212

i guess mabe itachi could use izanagi to kill pain im not sure though

I think you mean Izanami, which we haven't seen yet. Izanagi makes an eye go blind to basically make your death an illusion. Basically Izanagi changes your fate, while Izanami creates your fate as Itachi put it. Still don't know what it does...

Originally Posted by LilHinataGirl

I can equally see them both strong, but Itachi is recommended to be strong, since he's the only one who cheated off Kabuto's Jutsu so where as Kabuto couldn't use him as his "Doll"
...
Itachi has shown a well talented fact for the war, and so has Sasuke so its a believeable state of mind.

That has nothing to do with Itachi. It was Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan that did it, not Itachi's.

Anyway if Nagato wasn't crippled by the Gedo Mazo and could move. I think Nagato would defeat Itachi 1 vs 1. However since Nagato is crippled... It would need to be Itachi vs The Six Paths of Pain, in which case I can't declare a winner, since they are so evenly matched. Grant you I think Itachi has an edge in that situation. Or Itachi vs a crippled Nagato, which case Itachi obviously.

I have had this debate before and I can actually go on a long rant as to why I feel the way I feel. However I would need to go into the manga, so there would be spoilers. Still I might do so if I am bored later.

[Sasori Red Sand]

"BUT WHY?!" As the op stressed to me in another post regarding Madara vs Itachi and Sasuke, that I never answered...

Okay this time I'll explain why a non-crippled Nagato would most likely defeat Itachi, why Itachi wins against crippled Nagato 1v1 (no brainer), and why it's close with Itachi vs The Six Paths of Pain. Though I lean towards Itachi on the Six Paths of Pain, though it is very, very close and I don't really know for sure.

There are manga spoilers so, read at your own risk if you haven't read the manga.

Spoiler:

Itachi vs Crippled Nagato

In a way this already happened, grant you it wasn't Itachi alone. It was Itachi, Naruto, and Killer Bee. All very formidable characters, and Nagato still managed to throw them off with Planetary Devastation. Luckily Itachi is a genius and managed to think fast and Seal Nagato with Totsuka, one of the most powerful weapons in his arsenal. Suffice it to say as insanely powerful as Nagato is, the simple fact is that he was crippled when he first performed Gedo Mazo vs Hanzo. That right there is pretty much a guaranteed loss against someone like Itachi no matter how powerful you are. So Itachi wins here. I mean after Nagato was sealed Kabuto even lamented about how it was a shame that Nagato couldn't move.

However, what did I take out of this fight between crippled Nagato vs Itachi? Even with no legs Nagato is insane! He blew out Amaterasu with Shinra Tensei... I mean to say he blew out Amaterasu alone... o_o Nagato also demonstrated that even without Sage Mode he has acute senses totally on par. I cite the incident when he sensed that Itachi was about to use Amaterasu against Naruto and Bee prior to Shisui's eye freeing Itachi from the Edo Tensei. Basically Nagato sensed a change in air pressure and knew immediately that Itachi was about to use that specific technique and warned Naruto. On top of that he has all the powers of each of the Six Paths of Pain all in one body! Which means, all of these powers reside in one man.


Animal Path
- Spamming Summon Jutsu's
- All animals summoned increase Pains visibility
Asura Path
- This Path as we saw spams bombs and heat seeking missile's
- It can create a massive area of effect chakra blast
- It can also propel it's self at high speed with rocket boots
Deva Path
- The most infamous and memorable Pain with Yahiko's body
- Shinra Tensei this Pains most memorable attack... after all he used it to destory all of Konoha
Banshō Ten'in aka the all mighty pull
- Chibaku Tensei aka Planetary Devastation
Human Path
- This one allows him to rip out an enemies soul. Could've been a great counter for Kabuto's Edo Tensei.
- This ability also allows Nagato to instantaneously know everything about the victim.
Naraka Path
- This ability is basically how he can control life and death. We've never fully scene what it's capable of. Nagato used it to revive all of Konoha at the price of his life, so it didn't seem to be meant for that. However for it to do that is spooky. It's what revived fallen Pain's as well overtime.
Preta Path
- Absorbs and and all forms of chakra bursts, and any... I repeat any ninjutsu.
- It can also sap the chakra directly out of anyone so long as there is physical contact with the person, or their chakra.

That's the Rinnegan for you, and I notice on many occasions people don't seem to see why it's such a big deal, though I understand the reasoning behind that. Kishimoto gave the Sharingan a lot more love in terms of showing it off so we always think, "yeah but, Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o, Izanagi!" We keep forgetting though... The entire reason Madara fought the first Hokage was so he could complete the Sharingan. The Rinnegan is basically EMS 2.0.

When Madara popped out of his coffin and used the Rinnegan he began lobbing meteors at everyone Sephiroth style! Madara has much better control over the Rinnegan it seems, on top of that he has Harashima's powers, he also has deep knowledge of Uchiha powers as well unlike Nagato, and unlike Nagato he can walk. He seems like a demi-god! While Nagato is certainly no Madara he's still crazy powerful.

So...

Itachi vs Nagato (Not crippled)

While I lean strongly towards Nagato there is an off chance Itachi might be able win here. Off chance though... I won't say with Izanami since I'm not 100% sure how that works, or even if it would work against Nagato. Y'see while Jiraya's Genjutsu worked on a few of the Pain's in ear shot, it was a sonic Genjutsu, not an ocular Genjutsu, let alone an ocular Genjutsu based on the Sharingan, which is a bloodline limit that is essentially a downgrade of The Rinnegan, since The Sage of Six Paths divided the power between Uchiha and Senju. So logic would dictate that an ocular Jutsu performed with version 0.5 the Mangekyo Sharingan, which Itachi has against version 2.0 the upgrade from EMS, likely wouldn't work.

However lets say it does? Okay Nagato already showed he has senses like a Sage, so trapping him in a Tsukoyomi would be hard. On top of that with the Animal Path not only does he have a bunch of creatures to sink on Susano'o, they also don't die, but instead one becomes two, and they continue to multiply as such. So Itachi would have to seal them away. But that's not all the Animal Path provides Nagato, it also equips him multiple security cameras. So if Itachi's Tsukoyomi does work on him he doesn't need to risk exposing himself. Between his heightened senses and ability to cover his blind spots an ocular genjitsu just won't work on him. Then again as I said I am not sure how Izanami works exactly. So for now I'm not going to use that until I know exactly what it does. If it can lock someone into a Genjutsu without eye contact... hmmm... That does change things for Itachi.

Then you have the Asura Path which provides Nagato with extra speed, and basically a barrage to smash against Susano'o to keep Itachi pressed for chakra. But one of the most dangerous things to Itachi would be the Deva Path. It can blow out Amaterasu, and then you have the pull. As was demonstrated during the fight between Madara and the 5 Kages you can pull someone out of Susano'o at least briefly. Gaara if I recall managed this by moving the ground underneath Madara. So it wouldn't be too farfetched if an all mighty pull was able to yank Itachi out of Susano'o for a bit. Though that 5 second cooldown is something to keep tabs on. On top of that Planetary Destruction would definitely make Itachi unstable.

The Human Path isn't really worth mentioning for this battle. The Nakara Path is fascinating. Nagato manged to resurrect countless dead with it. One has to wonder if he can use it in a similar fashion to Izanagi, to basically self-rez if Itachi got lucky? I know when it came to the Six Paths of Pain one Pain was in charge of rezzing the others, but the full version Nagato with all the Paths in one body, what could he do? Again speculation...

So let me just get to one of the most dangerous powers Nagato would have working in favor for him against poor Itachi in this situation. The Preta Path, which makes Nagato immune to Ninjutsu and all chakra based attacks. Not just immune they refill his chakra, and if he gets his hand's on Itachi it's all over.

Basically as someone else said Nagato would have much "stronger brute force." To the point it's almost overwhelming. Itachi's only chance would be to really put his wits to the test, and Itachi is no fool, then again neither is Nagato, but... Itachi's best bet would be to use Susano'o very carefully, avoid expending chakra unnecessarily ie forget about Ninjutsu... Maybe use ninja weapons in an elaborate plan to trick Nagato and seal him with the Totsuka. That's Itachi's only real chance, to seal him somehow. It's not impossible, but overall Nagato has a massive advantage here imo.

Itachi vs The Six Paths of Pain

Now this would be the most realistic setup, since Nagato is a cripple after all. And in this setup things swing more in Itachi's favor. By dividing the Paths to one Pain alone Itachi has a greater chance of defeating them with his strategic genius. Grant you it still wouldn't be an easy feat since they work so well in unison.

Now once again the question of an ocular jutsu like Tsukoyomi comes up especially considering the six Pain's never seemed to show any signs of heightened senses like Nagato himself. Still, I don't think it would be a factor. If Tsukoyomi actually can effect Nagato, Itachi would need to find out where Nagato's hiding and do it to him directly. Again, as was demonstrated with Jiraya's sonic genjutsu only the Pain's in it's radius were effected. On top of that what are The Six Paths of Pain? They're puppets made out of corpses, so an attack that relies so much on breaking one psychologically like Tsukoyomi really won't effect marionettes. However if Itachi managed to find Nagato right away, which who knows? He's clever... and if he managed to get Nagato with Tsukoyomi... Well who controls the puppets when the puppet-master is caught in a 72 hour nightmare?

Basically Itachi is going to want to go after their Priest first (WoW reference lol) aka the Nakara Path so they can't get rezzed. Then seal away Preta Path, and let loose. It's easier said than done, but if he can manage to separate them enough he can take one individual Pain down at a time. The hardest will probably be The Deva Path as was the case with Naruto. Again that pull can likely yank him out of his Susano'o, he can blow out Amaterasu, and overall he'll be the biggest menace.

So with this it's tough since again, even if their powers are split up, they still have them, which equals that "brute force" that was mentioned. Also they if they work very well in unison it means blind spots are covered even better. The only way is to trick them, and get them totally separated somehow to pick them off, and it would be a REAL DRAIN on Itachi's chakra. Still even though it's pretty even, I think Itachi has a better advantage in this situation. Especially if he manages to find Nagato fast somehow.

There you go... God I'm bored... XD

[itachipeintobi]

Pein cause If Itachi was stronger Itachi would be the leader of the Akatsuki but Itachi wasnt so Pein was stronger....but thats what i believe

[flash0212]

Originally Posted by Sasori Red Sand

"BUT WHY?!" As the op stressed to me in another post regarding Madara vs Itachi and Sasuke, that I never answered...

Okay this time I'll explain why a non-crippled Nagato would most likely defeat Itachi, why Itachi wins against crippled Nagato 1v1 (no brainer), and why it's close with Itachi vs The Six Paths of Pain. Though I lean towards Itachi on the Six Paths of Pain, though it is very, very close and I don't really know for sure.

There are manga spoilers so, read at your own risk if you haven't read the manga.

Spoiler:

Itachi vs Crippled Nagato

In a way this already happened, grant you it wasn't Itachi alone. It was Itachi, Naruto, and Killer Bee. All very formidable characters, and Nagato still managed to throw them off with Planetary Devastation. Luckily Itachi is a genius and managed to think fast and Seal Nagato with Totsuka, one of the most powerful weapons in his arsenal. Suffice it to say as insanely powerful as Nagato is, the simple fact is that he was crippled when he first performed Gedo Mazo vs Hanzo. That right there is pretty much a guaranteed loss against someone like Itachi no matter how powerful you are. So Itachi wins here. I mean after Nagato was sealed Kabuto even lamented about how it was a shame that Nagato couldn't move.

However, what did I take out of this fight between crippled Nagato vs Itachi? Even with no legs Nagato is insane! He blew out Amaterasu with Shinra Tensei... I mean to say he blew out Amaterasu alone... o_o Nagato also demonstrated that even without Sage Mode he has acute senses totally on par. I cite the incident when he sensed that Itachi was about to use Amaterasu against Naruto and Bee prior to Shisui's eye freeing Itachi from the Edo Tensei. Basically Nagato sensed a change in air pressure and knew immediately that Itachi was about to use that specific technique and warned Naruto. On top of that he has all the powers of each of the Six Paths of Pain all in one body! Which means, all of these powers reside in one man.


Animal Path
- Spamming Summon Jutsu's
- All animals summoned increase Pains visibility
Asura Path
- This Path as we saw spams bombs and heat seeking missile's
- It can create a massive area of effect chakra blast
- It can also propel it's self at high speed with rocket boots
Deva Path
- The most infamous and memorable Pain with Yahiko's body
- Shinra Tensei this Pains most memorable attack... after all he used it to destory all of Konoha
Banshō Ten'in aka the all mighty pull
- Chibaku Tensei aka Planetary Devastation
Human Path
- This one allows him to rip out an enemies soul. Could've been a great counter for Kabuto's Edo Tensei.
- This ability also allows Nagato to instantaneously know everything about the victim.
Naraka Path
- This ability is basically how he can control life and death. We've never fully scene what it's capable of. Nagato used it to revive all of Konoha at the price of his life, so it didn't seem to be meant for that. However for it to do that is spooky. It's what revived fallen Pain's as well overtime.
Preta Path
- Absorbs and and all forms of chakra bursts, and any... I repeat any ninjutsu.
- It can also sap the chakra directly out of anyone so long as there is physical contact with the person, or their chakra.

That's the Rinnegan for you, and I notice on many occasions people don't seem to see why it's such a big deal, though I understand the reasoning behind that. Kishimoto gave the Sharingan a lot more love in terms of showing it off so we always think, "yeah but, Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu, Susano'o, Izanagi!" We keep forgetting though... The entire reason Madara fought the first Hokage was so he could complete the Sharingan. The Rinnegan is basically EMS 2.0.

When Madara popped out of his coffin and used the Rinnegan he began lobbing meteors at everyone Sephiroth style! Madara has much better control over the Rinnegan it seems, on top of that he has Harashima's powers, he also has deep knowledge of Uchiha powers as well unlike Nagato, and unlike Nagato he can walk. He seems like a demi-god! While Nagato is certainly no Madara he's still crazy powerful.

So...

Itachi vs Nagato (Not crippled)

While I lean strongly towards Nagato there is an off chance Itachi might be able win here. Off chance though... I won't say with Izanami since I'm not 100% sure how that works, or even if it would work against Nagato. Y'see while Jiraya's Genjutsu worked on a few of the Pain's in ear shot, it was a sonic Genjutsu, not an ocular Genjutsu, let alone an ocular Genjutsu based on the Sharingan, which is a bloodline limit that is essentially a downgrade of The Rinnegan, since The Sage of Six Paths divided the power between Uchiha and Senju. So logic would dictate that an ocular Jutsu performed with version 0.5 the Mangekyo Sharingan, which Itachi has against version 2.0 the upgrade from EMS, likely wouldn't work.

However lets say it does? Okay Nagato already showed he has senses like a Sage, so trapping him in a Tsukoyomi would be hard. On top of that with the Animal Path not only does he have a bunch of creatures to sink on Susano'o, they also don't die, but instead one becomes two, and they continue to multiply as such. So Itachi would have to seal them away. But that's not all the Animal Path provides Nagato, it also equips him multiple security cameras. So if Itachi's Tsukoyomi does work on him he doesn't need to risk exposing himself. Between his heightened senses and ability to cover his blind spots an ocular genjitsu just won't work on him. Then again as I said I am not sure how Izanami works exactly. So for now I'm not going to use that until I know exactly what it does. If it can lock someone into a Genjutsu without eye contact... hmmm... That does change things for Itachi.

Then you have the Asura Path which provides Nagato with extra speed, and basically a barrage to smash against Susano'o to keep Itachi pressed for chakra. But one of the most dangerous things to Itachi would be the Deva Path. It can blow out Amaterasu, and then you have the pull. As was demonstrated during the fight between Madara and the 5 Kages you can pull someone out of Susano'o at least briefly. Gaara if I recall managed this by moving the ground underneath Madara. So it wouldn't be too farfetched if an all mighty pull was able to yank Itachi out of Susano'o for a bit. Though that 5 second cooldown is something to keep tabs on. On top of that Planetary Destruction would definitely make Itachi unstable.

The Human Path isn't really worth mentioning for this battle. The Nakara Path is fascinating. Nagato manged to resurrect countless dead with it. One has to wonder if he can use it in a similar fashion to Izanagi, to basically self-rez if Itachi got lucky? I know when it came to the Six Paths of Pain one Pain was in charge of rezzing the others, but the full version Nagato with all the Paths in one body, what could he do? Again speculation...

So let me just get to one of the most dangerous powers Nagato would have working in favor for him against poor Itachi in this situation. The Preta Path, which makes Nagato immune to Ninjutsu and all chakra based attacks. Not just immune they refill his chakra, and if he gets his hand's on Itachi it's all over.

Basically as someone else said Nagato would have much "stronger brute force." To the point it's almost overwhelming. Itachi's only chance would be to really put his wits to the test, and Itachi is no fool, then again neither is Nagato, but... Itachi's best bet would be to use Susano'o very carefully, avoid expending chakra unnecessarily ie forget about Ninjutsu... Maybe use ninja weapons in an elaborate plan to trick Nagato and seal him with the Totsuka. That's Itachi's only real chance, to seal him somehow. It's not impossible, but overall Nagato has a massive advantage here imo.

Itachi vs The Six Paths of Pain

Now this would be the most realistic setup, since Nagato is a cripple after all. And in this setup things swing more in Itachi's favor. By dividing the Paths to one Pain alone Itachi has a greater chance of defeating them with his strategic genius. Grant you it still wouldn't be an easy feat since they work so well in unison.

Now once again the question of an ocular jutsu like Tsukoyomi comes up especially considering the six Pain's never seemed to show any signs of heightened senses like Nagato himself. Still, I don't think it would be a factor. If Tsukoyomi actually can effect Nagato, Itachi would need to find out where Nagato's hiding and do it to him directly. Again, as was demonstrated with Jiraya's sonic genjutsu only the Pain's in it's radius were effected. On top of that what are The Six Paths of Pain? They're puppets made out of corpses, so an attack that relies so much on breaking one psychologically like Tsukoyomi really won't effect marionettes. However if Itachi managed to find Nagato right away, which who knows? He's clever... and if he managed to get Nagato with Tsukoyomi... Well who controls the puppets when the puppet-master is caught in a 72 hour nightmare?

Basically Itachi is going to want to go after their Priest first (WoW reference lol) aka the Nakara Path so they can't get rezzed. Then seal away Preta Path, and let loose. It's easier said than done, but if he can manage to separate them enough he can take one individual Pain down at a time. The hardest will probably be The Deva Path as was the case with Naruto. Again that pull can likely yank him out of his Susano'o, he can blow out Amaterasu, and overall he'll be the biggest menace.

So with this it's tough since again, even if their powers are split up, they still have them, which equals that "brute force" that was mentioned. Also they if they work very well in unison it means blind spots are covered even better. The only way is to trick them, and get them totally separated somehow to pick them off, and it would be a REAL DRAIN on Itachi's chakra. Still even though it's pretty even, I think Itachi has a better advantage in this situation. Especially if he manages to find Nagato fast somehow.

There you go... God I'm bored... XD

I like this its very informative and plays out possible scenarios nice

[flash0212]

Originally Posted by Sasori Red Sand

I think you mean Izanami, which we haven't seen yet. Izanagi makes an eye go blind to basically make your death an illusion. Basically Izanagi changes your fate, while Izanami creates your fate as Itachi put it. Still don't know what it does...



That has nothing to do with Itachi. It was Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan that did it, not Itachi's.

Anyway if Nagato wasn't crippled by the Gedo Mazo and could move. I think Nagato would defeat Itachi 1 vs 1. However since Nagato is crippled... It would need to be Itachi vs The Six Paths of Pain, in which case I can't declare a winner, since they are so evenly matched. Grant you I think Itachi has an edge in that situation. Or Itachi vs a crippled Nagato, which case Itachi obviously.

I have had this debate before and I can actually go on a long rant as to why I feel the way I feel. However I would need to go into the manga, so there would be spoilers. Still I might do so if I am bored later.

No i meant izanagi that was an old post because we are now seeing how izanami works today.

[Sasori Red Sand]

Originally Posted by flash0212

No i meant izanagi that was an old post because we are now seeing how izanami works today.

Ah... well be that the case. Izanagi could help Itachi out in a real jam, but it doesn't "kill" anyone. However if he does it one of his eyes go blind hurting his Sharingan and vision. Grant you in all the situations it could save him and keep him going just a little longer, but if he has to use it chances are he's desperate and losing.

As for the manga I need to read the new chapter when I get the chance, haven't gotten around to it yet.

[flash0212]

Originally Posted by Sasori Red Sand

Ah... well be that the case. Izanagi could help Itachi out in a real jam, but it doesn't "kill" anyone. However if he does it one of his eyes go blind hurting his Sharingan and vision. Grant you in all the situations it could save him and keep him going just a little longer, but if he has to use it chances are he's desperate and losing.

As for the manga I need to read the new chapter when I get the chance, haven't gotten around to it yet.

its cool it shows izanami and gives a pretty good picture how it works i dont know if you have heard about it already so i wont spoil anything.

[Evert131]

Come on people, let's stay realistic!
Itachi said it himself that he was afraid of Jiraiya's power, Pain easily killed him.

[Kiko-kun]

<_< Itachi probably stronger.

[Jonesy]

Itachi took down a whole clan, but Pain took down a whole village.

I'll let you do the math.

[TheOwneROfShaRingaN]

I think with Pain's rinnegan he is stronger. Itachi have mangekyou sharingan, but rinnegan is still the most powerfull eye.