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Old 04-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #41
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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Of course I did, I can play that game to
what game?
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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That means he doesn`t outclass him in survivability, does it? Though I don`t see what you are trying to say. It is not like Itachi is allergic to water, salt or something like that.
He's not, but regardless of how much smarter or how better his jutsu are in comparison to Suigetsu, simply comparing their stats won't do anything when Itachi has nothing to hurt Suigetsu, or his jutsu can't do anything.
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I`m pretty sure Amaterasu burns even water, Suigetsu is still weak to Totsuka sword (or whatever it`s name is), Naruto knew about Genjutsu, but it didn`t help him much, did it? And it is not like he got caught only once!!!
Regardless, Amaterasu isn't burning a lake and Suigetsu is allowed to move around here.
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Also, since there are no restrictions, so I say Itachi can use Izanami. Even if it wasn`t shown doesn`t mean he cannot use it. So, he can use it. Next thing you ask: Is Izanami strong enough to beat Suigetsu. Fair enough. Whether you believe me right now or not, wait a week or two and you`ll see for yourself that Izanami could deal with Suigetsu!!!
He can use it but if we don't know what it can do so it's useless here. I also doubt he'd willingly use it as it gets rid of one of his eyes forever. It's not like Tobi was super willing to use Izanagi to survive Konan's ocean jutsu.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:15 PM   #43
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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He's not, but regardless of how much smarter or how better his jutsu are in comparison to Suigetsu, simply comparing their stats won't do anything when Itachi has nothing to hurt Suigetsu, or his jutsu can't do anything.
Regardless, Amaterasu isn't burning a lake and Suigetsu is allowed to move around here.
He can use it but if we don't know what it can do so it's useless here. I also doubt he'd willingly use it as it gets rid of one of his eyes forever. It's not like Tobi was super willing to use Izanagi to survive Konan's ocean jutsu.
Comparing stats is not bad, in situations when both fighters have little to no chance of hurting their opponent with direct attack!!!

Amaterasu will burn as long as the thing set on Amaterasu is not burned. That would include lake, probably. Though it would take days, weeks, months maybe to burn it entirely.
Totsuka sword can still be used. And so can Genjutsu be used, too.

Izanami is not one of those Jutsu we know a lot about, but I do believe that in less than month we will see at least part of its effect.

So, we just have to wait and see. I believe it will be enough to take care of someone like Suigetsu.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:33 PM   #44
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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Comparing stats is not bad, in situations when both fighters have little to no chance of hurting their opponent with direct attack!!!

Amaterasu will burn as long as the thing set on Amaterasu is not burned. That would include lake, probably. Though it would take days, weeks, months maybe to burn it entirely.
Totsuka sword can still be used. And so can Genjutsu be used, too.

Izanami is not one of those Jutsu we know a lot about, but I do believe that in less than month we will see at least part of its effect.

So, we just have to wait and see. I believe it will be enough to take care of someone like Suigetsu.
This isn't a text-based RPG in which the person with the better stats win an automatic battle, if the person who does have the better stats has no way to hurt the other then it's futile to use that in the debate.

Totsuka sword has to pierce its target, if there is nothing to pierce it cannot do anything. I've already talked about this, but genjutsu is useless because Suigetsu has full knowledge. And besides--assume genjutsu actually works. Then what? Itachi still has no way to hurt Suigetsu.

I agree we should learn about Izanami eventually but as of now it has little relevance, if the debates in this thread are still going on when it's revealed and it's significant, I'll restrict it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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Yeah but I never said that Suigetsu would have to break through Susanoo.
I never said you did.
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Susanoo doesnt stick to Itachi's body, it is more like a separate entity that forms around him - as demonstrated by Danzo seeing the hole in Sasuke's Susanoo, Sasuke passing through Susanoo in chapter 393 when Itachi approaches him, and Gaara pulling Madara out of his Susanoo.
I know.
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Not only that, but it's not like Susanoo defends Itachi from below. Suigetsu can just go under the water, and the unsuspecting Itachi, who will be trying to keep up Susanoo while having no clue where he went, will be vulnerable.
And while Suigetsu does all of this, Itachi just stands there, amirite?

Edit: Granted, I'm not stating that Itachi wins this match. He obviously loses due to Suigetsu having the locational advantage, as well as the elemental advantage. Itachi's only chance would have to either use Susano'o (which won't help) or use his Tsukuyomi. And since Amaterasu is nigh-pathetic, it ain't doing crap to Suigetsu.

Added to the fact that Suigetsu's durabilityis nothing to sneeze at either. He survived a TBB from Hachibi (only due to him merging with the water in that situation as well), if you can recall that. Itachi has virtually nothing that can put him down, let alone harm him.

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Old 04-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #46
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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i never said you did.
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so there is nothing to suggest that his water gun will work on itachi's susano'o.
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and while suigetsu does all of this, itachi just stands there, amirite?
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the unsuspecting itachi, who will be trying to keep up susanoo while having no clue where he went, will be vulnerable.
Agree with the rest
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:14 PM   #47
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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Water Gun. Regardless-This goes both ways. Nothing Itachi can do can hurt Suigetsu.
Debatuble, What about the new eye tech that he is going to use with sasuke
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:37 PM   #48
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

Assuming Suigetsu utilizes his full knowledge quite effectively, his greatest danger is still genjutsu still the Finger pointing.

Other than genjutsu + Tsukiyomi the only thing that might harm Suigetsu is Amaterasu but thats another debate all together.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:10 PM   #49
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

How did this survive 3 pages...?

Suigetsu goes puddle mode, Itachi stabs the puddle with the tosaka sword.
...right?
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:32 PM   #50
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

Totsuka is a sealing sword so assuming that Suigetsu's chakra water form gets "hit" it could seal him but we don't know.

Maybe. I won't be surprised if that is the case.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #51
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

I'm sure Itachi would have fun stabbing blindly into a lake.
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:22 AM   #52
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

U guys must not realize just how smart Itachi lol. Do u guys really think he can beat Itachi xD? Suigetsu can't even beat Kisame, Itachi and Kisame are in par and u guys are actin like hes just gonna stand there and stare at Suigetsu the whole time. Suigestu will not pierce through Susano and if he gets caught in a Amaterasu hes done and hes curtainly not faster then Itachi. Also if Suigetsu doesn't have someone else 2 break him out of a genjutsu then im sorry but he loses. Itachi figured out Nagato in a matter of seconds so he'll figure out Suigetsu, believe that.
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Old 04-06-2012, 06:25 AM   #53
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

^in this situation he has a pretty good chance since he has knowledge and they're on a lake

Quote:
Suigetsu goes puddle mode, Itachi stabs the puddle with the tosaka sword.
...right?
Thats what I said. Water or not, its suigetsu with a mass of suigetsu's chakra
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:15 AM   #54
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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^in this situation he has a pretty good chance since he has knowledge and they're on a lake

Thats what I said. Water or not, its suigetsu with a mass of suigetsu's chakra
If this were the case, if Itachi stabbed clones then the original would be sealed. It's not like this was an option when Kabuto spread himself out in his water form, Itachi had no idea where he was. Itachi cannot seal him by stabbing at a lake.

He's intangible when it comes to his water form, Itachi will be simply stabbing through him. Do you think Tobi would be sealed if he went intangible and the Totsuka went through him?
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:22 AM   #55
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

Tobi's intangibility and Suigetsu's intangibility aren't the same thing.

Not to mention some people would like to argue the whole spiritual sword sealing aspect.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:23 AM   #56
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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Tobi's intangibility and Suigetsu's intangibility aren't the same thing.

Not to mention some people would like to argue the whole spiritual sword sealing aspect.
They aren't the same thing, but fairly similar especially in this case. If a giant sword is stabbing through them, it's going to go straight through water and do practically nothing.

A better example than clones would have been Muu's splitting ability, I'm pretty sure this is common sense though.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:26 AM   #57
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

The point is that because Suigetsu's water chakra form and the fact Totsuka sword is spiritual and its a sealing sword to negate it.

I am not the one arguing that though but don't be surprised if people do.


Also Suigetsu isn't required to be looking at the finger to be caught in genjutsu.

Just throwing things out there.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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The point is that because Suigetsu's water chakra form and the fact Totsuka sword is spiritual and its a sealing sword to negate it.

I am not the one arguing that though but don't be surprised if people do.


Also Suigetsu isn't required to be looking at the finger to be caught in genjutsu.

Just throwing things out there.
I understand it's a chakra form, it's still water. He's practically omnipresent in his water form within the water. You saw what happened with Kabuto who has the exact same ability; the proof is right there. I've already seen people arguing for it though so, you're right that I'm not surprised.

If Itachi had any or many effective genjutsu that didn't require eyesight, he would have used it against Kabuto who blocked off his. He was fairly confident that Itachi couldn't use genjutsu on him now, regardless Suigetsu has full knowledge so he should be good.

Assuming genjutsu works...what can Itachi do? Suigetsu is still made of water, and I'm sure Suigetsu isn't amateur at breaking genjutsu regardless.
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:36 AM   #59
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

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I understand it's a chakra form, it's still water. He's practically omnipresent in his water form within the water. You saw what happened with Kabuto who has the exact same ability; the proof is right there. I've already seen people arguing for it though so, you're right that I'm not surprised.
Totsuka is a spiritual sealing sword. So thats why. Its different. Or so it supposed to be.

Itachi never attempted to use Totsuka on Kabuto anyway so you cannot use that scenario.

Plus Kabuto's liquidification is more manually based from what I have seen.

Quote:
If Itachi had any or many effective genjutsu that didn't require eyesight, he would have used it against Kabuto who blocked off his. He was fairly confident that Itachi couldn't use genjutsu on him now, regardless Suigetsu has full knowledge so he should be good.
The Finger doesn't require Kabuto to look at it but its likely weaker than sharingan genjutsu. Plus Kabuto being a skilled medic with quite great chakra control and able to master Sage Mode, its likely Itachi is seeing it won't be as effective.

Quote:
Assuming genjutsu works...what can Itachi do? Suigetsu is still made of water, and I'm sure Suigetsu isn't amateur at breaking genjutsu regardless.
If Itachi does, and if he does catch him. He could always trick him that so he could Tsukiyomi to subdue him.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:22 AM   #60
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Default Re: Suigetsu vs. Itachi

I have to give this one to Itachi. I know Suigetsu has the locational advantage, but Itachi has super powered Genjutsu and the Totsuka sword which are pretty much insta-KOs as well as a very high intellect. Suigetsu has not demonstrated any resistance to Genjutsu so saying he could break out of one of Itachi's genjutsus is pretty ridiculous. As far as the water body goes, I'm pretty sure the Totsuka sword would still be effective if it hit a part of his chakra manipulated water body, because it seals the soul/chakra.
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