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Old 05-07-2012, 06:51 AM   #21
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Sasuke and Itachi currently get stomped by Kabuto.


Naruto wins this with no effort.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

IMO, you all are seriously underestimating Sasuke...
A fight is not all about raw power and speed. Skills and strategy also play an important role.

Sasuke doesn't need a particularly powerful technique to stand against Naruto.
Like someone said before he will(or already has) learn A's "Lightening Armour". He has the required nature transformation skill(full body chidori).
Couple LA with his EMS, and Sasuke can easily predict and react to naruto's super-speed.

Against Naruto's full kyuubi mode, Sasuke has his Susanoo.
Naruto's tailed-beast bomb will never work on Sasuke. The moment Naruto tries to attack with a TBB Sasuke will shoot his Sussanoo arrow at it and Naruto's TBB will either completely fail or simply explode in his face.

Wherever Sasuke loses in terms of power and chakra compared to Naruto, he compensates it with his skill and precision. So I think they are evenly matched.
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Old 05-18-2012, 08:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Sasuke will win. Kishimoto will make sure of it.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Quote:
Naruto's tailed-beast bomb will never work on Sasuke. The moment Naruto tries to attack with a TBB Sasuke will shoot his Sussanoo arrow at it and Naruto's TBB will either completely fail or simply explode in his face.
Please tell me you're joking. Naruto's TBB deflected 5 Bijuu bombs on its own, each capable of mountain busting. Susanoo's arrow was knocked off course by Danzo's weak wood style.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

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Originally Posted by TheBlackChidori View Post
Please tell me you're joking. Naruto's TBB deflected 5 Bijuu bombs on its own, each capable of mountain busting. Susanoo's arrow was knocked off course by Danzo's weak wood style.
Every jutsu has its weakness!!
True, Naruto's TBB is powerful even more than that of 5 Bijuus combined.
But it also has its weakness and that is:
The precarious balance required between B/W chakra at an ratio of 8:2

Now, Sasuke's Susanno arrows are primarily made up of chakra.
So, Sasuke firing Susuanoo arrows at Naruto's TBB is same as adding external chakra to it.
Doing this will disturb that 8:2 ratio of B/W chakra and we will get to see an epic failure of TBB.

Just because a technique is weak doesn't mean that it is useless!
It's like chess; even a weak pawn when strategically placed, can take down the strongest queen!

Of course, it also depends on how soon Sasuke can figure this out...
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3nsh!n View Post
IMO, you all are seriously underestimating Sasuke...
A fight is not all about raw power and speed. Skills and strategy also play an important role.

Sasuke doesn't need a particularly powerful technique to stand against Naruto.
Like someone said before he will(or already has) learn A's "Lightening Armour". He has the required nature transformation skill(full body chidori).
Couple LA with his EMS, and Sasuke can easily predict and react to naruto's super-speed.

Against Naruto's full kyuubi mode, Sasuke has his Susanoo.
Naruto's tailed-beast bomb will never work on Sasuke. The moment Naruto tries to attack with a TBB Sasuke will shoot his Sussanoo arrow at it and Naruto's TBB will either completely fail or simply explode in his face.

Wherever Sasuke loses in terms of power and chakra compared to Naruto, he compensates it with his skill and precision. So I think they are evenly matched.
I'm sorry man but just NO lol. You do realize Naruto can make at least 15 clones...each of them strong enough to take Sasuke on. He wouldn't even have to resort to bijuu mode. In RM Mode Naruto was still stronger than Sasuke, let me just see if I can change your mind here. Let's go through some key aspects of a fight here...

Intel
Sasuke has been too proud to even listen to people talk about Naruto. He has NO idea what Naruto is capable of. The last time they fought Naruto wasn't even in his zero tails state. Sasuke has no intel other than Naruto improved all his fundamental abilities in base form over the two year time skip and then he suddenly got more powerful than Pain. Look at all the abilities Sasuke has no idea Naruto has...

Sage Mode: chakra sensing, superstrength, enhanced speed, rasengan variants, access to Ma and Pa (two S class shinobi on their own), enhanced durability, precog.

Kyuubi / Rikudo Mode: emotion sensing, superspeed, enhanced strength, even more rasengan variants, ridiculous stamina, chakra arms, a directly controlled FRS

Any one of 50 mistakes could lead to Sasuke getting killed. Many opponents just as skilled as Sasuke have been hurt or killed because of their lack of intel. What if Sasuke charges Sage Mode Naruto head on like Preta Path and gets punched in the face by a Frog Kata, that's an instant knock out or worse. What if Sasuke sees RM Mode Naruto's rasengan and assumes it's close range then Naruto extends his chakra arms and plows it right into his chest like what happened to Muu. Hell what if he just gets speed blitzed like Kisame or the Third Raikage.

Naruto on the other hand heard and prepared for Sasuke's lightning techniques, and has fought against and with Itachi numerous times. He has ample experience fighting against the mangekyo sharingan.

Technique Counters
Like I said Naruto's fought against MS three times already. There are no moves Sasuke can use other than the unknown EMS ability that Naruto can't counter

Genjutsu- We now know Sasuke doesn't use Tsukuyomi and now that Naruto works with Kurama he's immune to genjutsu like Bee

Amaterasu- Naruto now has enough speed to dodge Amaterasu like A

Susano'o- Rasengan spam, FRS, and Sage Mode superstrength tear it apart

As for the whole Sasuke gets Lightning Release theory, I'm actually thinking that Kishi's not going to have Naruto and Sasuke fight again but that's just me, anyways I highly doubt Sasuke would be able to pull that off. Even if that technique can be copied via sharingan which I doubt considering only two people have used it and they happened to be father and son, Sasuke certainly doesn't have the chakra and stamina to perform a technique that requires bijuu level chakra and constant control while using MS techs like Susano'o which is already hard to maintain.

State of Mind
Naruto will always be a sap for his best friend he thinks of as a brother BUT the emotion sensing granted to him in RM Mode will prevent him from making any fatal mistakes, or falling for Sasuke's traps.

So long story short...Sasuke gets owned, there's not even a need for a bijuu transformation.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:25 AM   #27
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
I'm sorry man but just NO lol. You do realize Naruto can make at least 15 clones...each of them strong enough to take Sasuke on. He wouldn't even have to resort to bijuu mode.
Creating clones means Naruto runs short of chakra much faster-although this is not really a problem considering his abnormally high chakra levels because of Kurama, compared to Sasuke.
But each clone only has a fraction of Naruto's real strength and they disappear immediately after getting a critical hit.

Too many clones-and they are easy to target. Because they actually occupy physical space, their movement will get restricted. Sasuke just needs to spam Amaterasu to take care of them.
Naruto cannot come up with a better way to waste chakra...

And if Naruto is planning to go Sage mode he cannot create more than 3/4 clones-that's his limit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Intel
Sasuke has been too proud to even listen to people talk about Naruto. He has NO idea what Naruto is capable of. The last time they fought Naruto wasn't even in his zero tails state. Sasuke has no intel other than Naruto improved all his fundamental abilities in base form over the two year time skip and then he suddenly got more powerful than Pain. Look at all the abilities Sasuke has no idea Naruto has...
lol...
You talk as if Naruto knows every technique Sasuke is going to use and what he is capable of.
It's true he has been lately spamming MS techniques-but that doesn't mean that's all he knows.
After all he did spend 3 years learning Ninjutsu from Oro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Sage Mode: chakra sensing, superstrength, enhanced speed, rasengan variants, access to Ma and Pa (two S class shinobi on their own), enhanced durability, precog.

Kyuubi / Rikudo Mode: emotion sensing, superspeed, enhanced strength, even more rasengan variants, ridiculous stamina, chakra arms, a directly controlled FRS
Chakra sensing and emotion sensing?!!
What good are they in 1 on 1 battle? Or do you think Naruto needs to use his chakra sensing ability to know where Sasuke is even though he sees him standing in front of him?

Rasengan variants?!
Now let's be realistic here. It's not like they are much different from their original versions. i.e normal rasengan and FRS (I personally like that mini-FRS)
Only the size(power) and number changes...

Enhanced strength, speed are all good but Naruto still cannot use SM and RM together.
So you can only consider either one at a given moment.

If Naruto has got Ma and Pa, Sasuke's got his hawks!!
Must I remind you that having an aerial advantage can easily tilt the outcome of a battle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Any one of 50 mistakes could lead to Sasuke getting killed. Many opponents just as skilled as Sasuke have been hurt or killed because of their lack of intel. What if Sasuke charges Sage Mode Naruto head on like Preta Path and gets punched in the face by a Frog Kata, that's an instant knock out or worse. What if Sasuke sees RM Mode Naruto's rasengan and assumes it's close range then Naruto extends his chakra arms and plows it right into his chest like what happened to Muu. Hell what if he just gets speed blitzed like Kisame or the Third Raikage.
You are forgetting something important here...
Sasuke uses a chokuto, his attack range is larger.
Not only that, but he also runs lightning chakra across the blade making it super sharp.
You have to consider that in hand-to-hand combat Sasuke has the advantage, because Naruto cannot block that blade, only dodge.
So obviously, Sasuke's fighting style is way different from the Pretha path. So it's unlikely that he will get knocked out like that Pretha path.

Talking about the chakra arms...
Sasuke already fought against Naruto in kyuubi cloak(red coloured) in part I. He saw that the chakra could form arms, extend and attack, were even unpredictable despite having sharingan.
If he saw Naruto in RM mode with chakra cloak, he will assume that it too can extend and attack-just to be on safer side.
So I doubt he will get caught off guard like Muu did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Naruto on the other hand heard and prepared for Sasuke's lightning techniques, and has fought against and with Itachi numerous times. He has ample experience fighting against the mangekyo sharingan.

Technique Counters
Like I said Naruto's fought against MS three times already. There are no moves Sasuke can use other than the unknown EMS ability that Naruto can't counter
When did Naruto fight against MS?
Did he ever get tortured by Itachi's Tsukuyomi? Or did Itachi use Amterasu on Naruto?
Naruto has never faced MS. If I remember correctly, the only time Itachi tried using MS on Naruto, it triggered Shisui's Kotoamatsukami.
And you call that ample experience? Don't make me laugh!
Knowing about a technique and facing it in a battle is very different.

Saying Naruto has prepared against Sasuke's lightning techniques-did you forget Sasuke can also use fire-techniques?
With fire element Sasuke can get advantage against Naruto's wind element techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Genjutsu- We now know Sasuke doesn't use Tsukuyomi and now that Naruto works with Kurama he's immune to genjutsu like Bee
It's not like that is a handicap for Sasuke-genjutsu is not his preferred style of fighting.

Also you are forgetting something important again. Even with Kurama's help Naruto is not completely immune to Genjutsu.
Genjutsu will no longer be effective on him, because Kurama can snap him out of it.
But the important point is that Naruto will get caught and then will get Kurama's help.

Sasuke's Tsukuyomi causes paralysis. So it's not completely useless.
Sasuke may not be able to trap Naruto forever in Tsukuyomi, but even then he can paralyze Naruto for 1-2 seconds or at least for a fraction of second -time required for Kurama to snap Naruto out of Tsukuyomi...
Being paralyzed for even a fraction of second could mean death in high-level battles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Amaterasu- Naruto now has enough speed to dodge Amaterasu like A
Again this depends on how it's used...
People forget that Naruto cannot teleport-but actually has to travel that distance.
What if Sasuke spammed the entire arena with Amaterasu?
I would like to see Naruto dodge all of that and yet maintain his super speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
Susano'o- Rasengan spam, FRS, and Sage Mode superstrength tear it apart
No complaints here, it's already been proved Susanoo can be destroyed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
As for the whole Sasuke gets Lightning Release theory, I'm actually thinking that Kishi's not going to have Naruto and Sasuke fight again but that's just me, anyways I highly doubt Sasuke would be able to pull that off. Even if that technique can be copied via sharingan which I doubt considering only two people have used it and they happened to be father and son, Sasuke certainly doesn't have the chakra and stamina to perform a technique that requires bijuu level chakra and constant control while using MS techs like Susano'o which is already hard to maintain.
No offence-but are you serious?
What idiot would use Lightning armour + Susanoo?
It's a complete waste of chakra...

Lightning armour raise defence, speed and reflexes
Susanoo also raises your defense but it slows down your movements (speed of travel from one point to other) especially in the complete form.
You lose that speed and reflex that you gain from LA, also since Susanoo surrounds user's body, that defense provided by LA is of no use unless Susanoo is destroyed.
Sasuke is not stupid. He knows he has very limited amount of chakra, unlike Naruto who can afford to waste chakra.

And it's not about copying-you cannot simply copy anything with sharingan...
Sasuke already excels in lightning nature transformation-he has the required talent. The principle behind LA should be similar to his Full body Chidori.
And although he may not have bijuu level chakra to sustain LA for hours like A, he can do it for at least a few minutes without excessive chakra drain...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
State of Mind
Naruto will always be a sap for his best friend he thinks of as a brother BUT the emotion sensing granted to him in RM Mode will prevent him from making any fatal mistakes, or falling for Sasuke's traps.
This is not an advantage...
Sasuke already declared that he will kill Naruto.
I doubt he is looking for way to ambush Naruto- he's looking for a 1 on 1 battle and wants to crush Naruto with everything he has got...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
So long story short...Sasuke gets owned, there's not even a need for a bijuu transformation.
If you think about it, Sasuke doesn't get owned-he can actually put up a good fight...
Anything Naruto has, Sasuke can counter it as long as there is a way.
So yes, Naruto needs bijuu transformation, all the more if you are to consider the x-factor that Sasuke could gain a new powerful technique with his EMS.

I'm not a Sasuke fan- but I do think you need to give him enough credit for his abilities, skills and intellect.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:33 AM   #28
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

EXPLOSIVE nine tailed naruto uses a tailed beast bomb but Sasuke does have susanoo so close fight
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:32 AM   #29
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3nsh!n View Post
Creating clones means Naruto runs short of chakra much faster-although this is not really a problem considering his abnormally high chakra levels because of Kurama, compared to Sasuke.
But each clone only has a fraction of Naruto's real strength and they disappear immediately after getting a critical hit.

Too many clones-and they are easy to target. Because they actually occupy physical space, their movement will get restricted. Sasuke just needs to spam Amaterasu to take care of them.
Naruto cannot come up with a better way to waste chakra...

And if Naruto is planning to go Sage mode he cannot create more than 3/4 clones-that's his limit.


lol...
You talk as if Naruto knows every technique Sasuke is going to use and what he is capable of.
It's true he has been lately spamming MS techniques-but that doesn't mean that's all he knows.
After all he did spend 3 years learning Ninjutsu from Oro.



Chakra sensing and emotion sensing?!!
What good are they in 1 on 1 battle? Or do you think Naruto needs to use his chakra sensing ability to know where Sasuke is even though he sees him standing in front of him?

Rasengan variants?!
Now let's be realistic here. It's not like they are much different from their original versions. i.e normal rasengan and FRS (I personally like that mini-FRS)
Only the size(power) and number changes...

Enhanced strength, speed are all good but Naruto still cannot use SM and RM together.
So you can only consider either one at a given moment.

If Naruto has got Ma and Pa, Sasuke's got his hawks!!
Must I remind you that having an aerial advantage can easily tilt the outcome of a battle?


You are forgetting something important here...
Sasuke uses a chokuto, his attack range is larger.
Not only that, but he also runs lightning chakra across the blade making it super sharp.
You have to consider that in hand-to-hand combat Sasuke has the advantage, because Naruto cannot block that blade, only dodge.
So obviously, Sasuke's fighting style is way different from the Pretha path. So it's unlikely that he will get knocked out like that Pretha path.

Talking about the chakra arms...
Sasuke already fought against Naruto in kyuubi cloak(red coloured) in part I. He saw that the chakra could form arms, extend and attack, were even unpredictable despite having sharingan.
If he saw Naruto in RM mode with chakra cloak, he will assume that it too can extend and attack-just to be on safer side.
So I doubt he will get caught off guard like Muu did.


When did Naruto fight against MS?
Did he ever get tortured by Itachi's Tsukuyomi? Or did Itachi use Amterasu on Naruto?
Naruto has never faced MS. If I remember correctly, the only time Itachi tried using MS on Naruto, it triggered Shisui's Kotoamatsukami.
And you call that ample experience? Don't make me laugh!
Knowing about a technique and facing it in a battle is very different.

Saying Naruto has prepared against Sasuke's lightning techniques-did you forget Sasuke can also use fire-techniques?
With fire element Sasuke can get advantage against Naruto's wind element techniques.


It's not like that is a handicap for Sasuke-genjutsu is not his preferred style of fighting.

Also you are forgetting something important again. Even with Kurama's help Naruto is not completely immune to Genjutsu.
Genjutsu will no longer be effective on him, because Kurama can snap him out of it.
But the important point is that Naruto will get caught and then will get Kurama's help.

Sasuke's Tsukuyomi causes paralysis. So it's not completely useless.
Sasuke may not be able to trap Naruto forever in Tsukuyomi, but even then he can paralyze Naruto for 1-2 seconds or at least for a fraction of second -time required for Kurama to snap Naruto out of Tsukuyomi...
Being paralyzed for even a fraction of second could mean death in high-level battles.


Again this depends on how it's used...
People forget that Naruto cannot teleport-but actually has to travel that distance.
What if Sasuke spammed the entire arena with Amaterasu?
I would like to see Naruto dodge all of that and yet maintain his super speed.


No complaints here, it's already been proved Susanoo can be destroyed.


No offence-but are you serious?
What idiot would use Lightning armour + Susanoo?
It's a complete waste of chakra...

Lightning armour raise defence, speed and reflexes
Susanoo also raises your defense but it slows down your movements (speed of travel from one point to other) especially in the complete form.
You lose that speed and reflex that you gain from LA, also since Susanoo surrounds user's body, that defense provided by LA is of no use unless Susanoo is destroyed.
Sasuke is not stupid. He knows he has very limited amount of chakra, unlike Naruto who can afford to waste chakra.

And it's not about copying-you cannot simply copy anything with sharingan...
Sasuke already excels in lightning nature transformation-he has the required talent. The principle behind LA should be similar to his Full body Chidori.
And although he may not have bijuu level chakra to sustain LA for hours like A, he can do it for at least a few minutes without excessive chakra drain...


This is not an advantage...
Sasuke already declared that he will kill Naruto.
I doubt he is looking for way to ambush Naruto- he's looking for a 1 on 1 battle and wants to crush Naruto with everything he has got...


If you think about it, Sasuke doesn't get owned-he can actually put up a good fight...
Anything Naruto has, Sasuke can counter it as long as there is a way.
So yes, Naruto needs bijuu transformation, all the more if you are to consider the x-factor that Sasuke could gain a new powerful technique with his EMS.

I'm not a Sasuke fan- but I do think you need to give him enough credit for his abilities, skills and intellect.
Ugh, it's sad but you actually seem sold on the idea that this is an even fight. There were a lot of things wrong with this post, I'll break it down by paragraph.

1.) Clones. You do realize that RM Mode clones are not like any other clones. They can survive plenty of critical hits, and the portion of Naruto's strength doesn't matter anymore because Naruto's chakra is ridiculous, you answered your own objection. Do you want some of the feats of Naruto's clones...pwning 20 zetsu with ease, defeating an Edo with ease, defeating Muu, defeating Third Raikage, fighting with Madara, holding of Madara's Mokuton barrage, and helping everyone clear their respective battlefields. Each one of those clones is Kage level in its own right.

As for Sage Mode, you made a mistake a lot of people make for some reason. Naruto can make as many clones as he wants!!! The only reason he made 3-4 was because he needed a clone to stay back and gather natural chakra if he ignores the five minute time limit like he did against the Kyuubi (and recently in the last Naruto movie although I usually stick to canon I'm just pointing this out), Naruto can make far more than 3 or 4 clones.

And you said Sasuke just needs to spam Amaterasu, are you kidding me? He's not hitting RM Narutos with that, they dodged A at full power who dusted Sasuke when he wasn't fully activated. You also forget that Sasuke has to actually stare at and focus on the object he's trying to ignite. Hate to break it to you, but he can't look 15 places at once. His best bet would be to do what he did against Kabuto and make a circle of fire around himself, which still sucks because he basically confines his movements.

2.) Naruto can use them both at the same time, he just has some of his clones go Sage Mode and the other clones go Rikudo Mode. He did it like six chapters ago when he transformed for the first time. He made one clone and had it go SM to find the chakra receivers and he used the other clones in RM Mode to pull them all out.

3.) I must ask you, did you seriously just compare Ma and Pa to Sasuke's hawks -_____- come on are you serious. Ma and Pa are the equivalent of two S rank shinobi, all the hawk can do is help Sasuke run away. Do you know how versatile Ma and Pa are, they can use Dust Cloud, Frog Screech, Elemental Ninjutsu, their tongues have special abilities, they also have superstrength, and they have ridiculously powerful genjutsu...those hawks can't even use technique, I can't believe you'd bring that up. And as for chakra and emotion sensing it would help if Naruto used smoke bombs or if the toads used dust cloud because although Sasuke wouldn't be able to see them, they would know exactly where he is.

4.) Well actually if you remember correctly Preta Path also charged in with a long rod trying to stab Naruto and SM Naruto dodged it and hit him with Frog Kata. Third Raikage charged in with his one finger hell stab which is just as long as Sasuke's sword and faaaaar more sharp, yet Naruto dodged it just as well and hit him with Rasengan because he has precog. which you didn't point out. The Third Raikage is both faster, stronger, and better than Sasuke at taijutsu so no Sasuke does not have advantage against Naruto at close range. RM Naruto has chakra arms which can block the sword and smash Rasengan into Sasuke. SM Naruto has precog., superstrength, and invisible punches with larger range.

5.) Naruto did not actually experience any MS techniques but he has experience fighting Itachi and knows what each technique does. He's seen Amaterasu up close since he was a kid. He knows how it's activated and exactly what it does. He's been warned by Kakashi about the dangers of Tsukuyomi and has been lectured by Chiyo and Jiraiya about genjutsu, and Sasuke can't even use Tsukuyomi so it doesn't matter. In the fight against Edo Itachi Naruto even warned Bee about Itachi's MS abilities. So yes I call that ample experience compared to Sasuke who hasn't seen Naruto fight in years and who you magically assume will just instantly figure out all of Naruto's abilities and have perfect counters to them. He doesn't even know what FRS is or what it does.

6.) Just be aware that all I'm doing is entertaining your far fetched theory that Sasuke has lightning armor. I have no reason to believe this is true and it hasn't been shown anywhere on panel. For all we know it's a KKG which cannot be copied, and you're completely wrong, and that's the stance you should be taking here but instead you're giving Sasuke power ups he doesn't have to suit your argument.

7.) Oh right just ignore the genjutsu thing. Did you forget Sasuke turning his back on a downed opponent because he thought he'd been trapped in genjutsu. Then Sasuke turned around and got his chest blown open. Sasuke has no idea that Naruto has control of Kurama. Don't give me that safe side crap, he has no reason to think Naruto would be immune to genjutsu, he is just as likely to commit the same mistake.


I am not downing Sasuke, he is a very competent and extremely powerful shinobi, he just happens to be completely outclassed here. Oh yeah and in this whole scenario I still didn't need to put Naruto in bijuu mode where you know he owns Sasuke.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Sasuke had better show something really strong with that eternal Mangekyo of his if he ever hopes to last more than five seconds against Current Naruto,
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:48 PM   #31
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
1.) Clones. You do realize that RM Mode clones are not like any other clones. They can survive plenty of critical hits, and the portion of Naruto's strength doesn't matter anymore because Naruto's chakra is ridiculous, you answered your own objection. Do you want some of the feats of Naruto's clones...pwning 20 zetsu with ease, defeating an Edo with ease, defeating Muu, defeating Third Raikage, fighting with Madara, holding of Madara's Mokuton barrage, and helping everyone clear their respective battlefields. Each one of those clones is Kage level in its own right.
No! Not even RM clones will survive if they get cut or burned by Amaterasu!
Or are you under the impression that if even if an RM clone got its hand cut in two, it will still continue to fight?

And no one's denying the feats Naruto performed.

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As for Sage Mode, you made a mistake a lot of people make for some reason. Naruto can make as many clones as he wants!!! The only reason he made 3-4 was because he needed a clone to stay back and gather natural chakra if he ignores the five minute time limit like he did against the Kyuubi (and recently in the last Naruto movie although I usually stick to canon I'm just pointing this out), Naruto can make far more than 3 or 4 clones.
Yes I made a mistake. I realized it some time later after I made that post, but I was already offline by then...

But the point is, Naruto cannot have too many clones going SM at the same time.
Because it takes too much concentration-Naruto said that himself!
All the more if he is planning to create more RM clones, having even one clone go SM will limit the max no of other clones he can create.

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And you said Sasuke just needs to spam Amaterasu, are you kidding me? He's not hitting RM Narutos with that, they dodged A at full power who dusted Sasuke when he wasn't fully activated. You also forget that Sasuke has to actually stare at and focus on the object he's trying to ignite. Hate to break it to you, but he can't look 15 places at once. His best bet would be to do what he did against Kabuto and make a circle of fire around himself, which still sucks because he basically confines his movements.
Too many clones-and the chances of 1-2 clones getting randomly hit every time Sasuke uses Amaterasu, is greatly increased.
Because there movement gets restricted due to neighbouring clones. Not all RM clones will be able to use their hyper speed to dodge-they may simply bump into each other, since Naruto's clones aren't synchronized like Pain's paths...

I am not saying that Sasuke can look at 15 places at same time.
When I said, Sasuke could spam Amaterasu, I didn't mean that he could target every single clone! I meant he could spam Amaterasu everywhere on ground
Unlike normal fire Amaterasu never stops burning. There is no way Naruto can extinguish it.
If there is Amaterasu every few feet on the ground, it effectively takes care of large no of clones.
Because even if they so much as touch it, they will disappear even if they are RM clones.
This also cripples Naruto's hyper-speed. He can't use it if there is Amaterasu blocking his path every few feet. Or are you going to say that Naruto can still maintain his speed even if has to travel a zigzag path? o_O

All you think of Amaterasu is as a way to incinerate something you look at. And that once you dodge it, you can forget about it. It's not that simple!!
Amaterasu is one of the best techniques ever. It can not only be used for attack but also for defense.

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2.) Naruto can use them both at the same time, he just has some of his clones go Sage Mode and the other clones go Rikudo Mode. He did it like six chapters ago when he transformed for the first time. He made one clone and had it go SM to find the chakra receivers and he used the other clones in RM Mode to pull them all out.
By using SM and RM, I meant SM+RM fusion...
So at any time, for an individual clone, you can only consider one set of abilities.

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3.) I must ask you, did you seriously just compare Ma and Pa to Sasuke's hawks -_____- come on are you serious. Ma and Pa are the equivalent of two S rank shinobi, all the hawk can do is help Sasuke run away. Do you know how versatile Ma and Pa are, they can use Dust Cloud, Frog Screech, Elemental Ninjutsu, their tongues have special abilities, they also have superstrength, and they have ridiculously powerful genjutsu...those hawks can't even use technique, I can't believe you'd bring that up. And as for chakra and emotion sensing it would help if Naruto used smoke bombs or if the toads used dust cloud because although Sasuke wouldn't be able to see them, they would know exactly where he is.
No I wasn't making a direct comparison of their abilities...

Ma and Pa are strong, have super-strength, elemental Ninjutsu, their tongues have special abilities etc...
But none of it means anything, if Sasuke is flying on his hawk's back, outside their range of attack.
All of Ma and Pa's attacks-except that Sound Genjutsu-are mid-range attacks at the best. But Sasuke's Susanoo bow and arrows has a long-range attack, its attack range further increased due to height. He can attack-but they cannot. Even that sound genjutsu has got its weakness...
If Naruto uses toad bombs or the toads use dust technique, Sasuke could always use his hawks to fly and get an better idea of Naruto's movements.

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4.) Well actually if you remember correctly Preta Path also charged in with a long rod trying to stab Naruto and SM Naruto dodged it and hit him with Frog Kata. Third Raikage charged in with his one finger hell stab which is just as long as Sasuke's sword and faaaaar more sharp, yet Naruto dodged it just as well and hit him with Rasengan because he has precog. which you didn't point out. The Third Raikage is both faster, stronger, and better than Sasuke at taijutsu so no Sasuke does not have advantage against Naruto at close range. RM Naruto has chakra arms which can block the sword and smash Rasengan into Sasuke. SM Naruto has precog., superstrength, and invisible punches with larger range.
Pretha Paths had a long-rod. He used stabbing attacks.
Sasuke uses a chokuto. He uses slash and cut attacks!!
There is a BIG difference between stabbing and slashing...
Unlike stabbing attacks, slashing attacks have much wider range of attack, so they are more difficult to dodge.

And about Third Raikage
In case you haven't noticed, he also uses stabbing attacks.
Though lethal it has small AoE and therefore easier to dodge
Naruto dodged Third Raikage attack at the last moment and then used his rasengan...
Now the Raikage maybe faster and stronger than Sasuke. But what you forget, while making that comparison is that Sasuke has got Sharingan unlike Raikage.
Even if Naruto makes such last moment twist, Sasuke can predict them and dodge. Having sharingan makes all that difference.

Maybe Nauto can block that blade with chakra arms. but do you realize that could also mean that Sasuke can chop off Naruto's chakra arms? Sure they can be replaced but it can be a good way to avoid Naruto FRS attack using chakra arms.
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5.) Naruto did not actually experience any MS techniques but he has experience fighting Itachi and knows what each technique does. He's seen Amaterasu up close since he was a kid. He knows how it's activated and exactly what it does. He's been warned by Kakashi about the dangers of Tsukuyomi and has been lectured by Chiyo and Jiraiya about genjutsu, and Sasuke can't even use Tsukuyomi so it doesn't matter. In the fight against Edo Itachi Naruto even warned Bee about Itachi's MS abilities. So yes I call that ample experience compared to Sasuke who hasn't seen Naruto fight in years and who you magically assume will just instantly figure out all of Naruto's abilities and have perfect counters to them. He doesn't even know what FRS is or what it does.
Naruto knew everything about Nagato's Rinnegan abilities, had actual experience fighting against the Rinnegan. But he still got owned by Nagato, even though it was Kabuto who was controlling him.
If B hadn't intervened he would have got soul sucked long ago...

I'm not assuming Sasuke will magically figure out Naruto's abilities.
But here again you are ignoring Sharingan's abilities-to predict movements and analyse chakra(although not on Byakugan's level)
Susanoo can always take majority of damage preventing instant knockout or kill.
Sasuke may not know what FRS is, but his sharingan lets him analyse it to get information. By just one look he will instinctively realize it to be dangerous amount of highly concentrated chakra-something he should not mess with or take lightly.

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
6.) Just be aware that all I'm doing is entertaining your far fetched theory that Sasuke has lightning armor. I have no reason to believe this is true and it hasn't been shown anywhere on panel. For all we know it's a KKG which cannot be copied, and you're completely wrong, and that's the stance you should be taking here but instead you're giving Sasuke power ups he doesn't have to suit your argument.
Lightning armour cannot be a KKG. It uses only lightning nature transformation
It just that it requires large amount of chakra and is difficult to perform.
How many ninja do you think can perform Naruto's FRS? Probably none.
But does it mean FRS is a KKG? Of course not! Same with LA.

Sasuke needs the LA only to keep up with Naruto's hyper-speed.
Even if he hasn't got LA, there are ways to cripple Naruto's hyper-speed.

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
7.) Oh right just ignore the genjutsu thing. Did you forget Sasuke turning his back on a downed opponent because he thought he'd been trapped in genjutsu. Then Sasuke turned around and got his chest blown open. Sasuke has no idea that Naruto has control of Kurama. Don't give me that safe side crap, he has no reason to think Naruto would be immune to genjutsu, he is just as likely to commit the same mistake.
Sasuke almost died during that attack! Do you seriously think he will make that same mistake again?
Sasuke already knows that Tsukuyomi isn't his best shot-it didn't even work on Danzo. So he won't drop his guard again when using Tsukuyomi.

And even if he doesn't know Naruto can fully control his bijuu, he knows that Naruto is a jinchuriki like B is.
His genjutsu didn't work on B, a jinchuriki. So even he used it on Naruto he won't just turn around like before.

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Originally Posted by JLI2infinity View Post
I am not downing Sasuke, he is a very competent and extremely powerful shinobi, he just happens to be completely outclassed here. Oh yeah and in this whole scenario I still didn't need to put Naruto in bijuu mode where you know he owns Sasuke.
And no, I am not sold on the idea that this is a even fight...
But you certainly seem so awed by Naruto's strength and feats if you think Naruto can pawn Sasuke just like that, means you fail to see this simple fact:
A fight is not all about raw power and speed. Skills and strategy also play an important role.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

wow I'm suprized that someone is actually dedating it for Sasuke considering how many people here seem to think sm Naruto > Sasuke Ems
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:01 AM   #33
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

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wow I'm suprized that someone is actually dedating it for Sasuke considering how many people here seem to think sm Naruto > Sasuke Ems
You are getting a wrong idea-I am not debating because I support Sasuke!
lol! I don't even like him that much!

I just think that this needs to be considered objectively, since all others seem so awed by Naruto's recent show of prowess-they don't even consider the possibility that Sasuke could actually put up a good fight, even if Naruto may outclass him in terms of raw power, chakra , stamina and *cough cough* PnJ...
It's not a debate if everyone just keeps agreeing with the OP.

If "Deadliest Warrior" were to simulate this battle in their show, I'm sure the outcome of that fight would be that Naruto wins 850+ battles out of 1000.
But that also means that he loses those remaining fights...
If there is a way Sasuke could win-I just want to find out how
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Geez... I know Naruto is good but it's a massive understatement to say Naruto would win effortlessly.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

Sasuke had lightning armor In the latest anime outro/ending... Does that mean hell get it in the manga? :O
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:21 AM   #36
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

I hope not.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

The more I hear about it, the more possible it seems. How in the world could Sasuke keep up with Naruto without some super speed enhancement. And even then he`d be a slowpoke who can barely react to Naruto`s moves!!!
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

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No! Not even RM clones will survive if they get cut or burned by Amaterasu!
Or are you under the impression that if even if an RM clone got its hand cut in two, it will still continue to fight?

And no one's denying the feats Naruto performed.


Yes I made a mistake. I realized it some time later after I made that post, but I was already offline by then...

But the point is, Naruto cannot have too many clones going SM at the same time.
Because it takes too much concentration-Naruto said that himself!
All the more if he is planning to create more RM clones, having even one clone go SM will limit the max no of other clones he can create.


Too many clones-and the chances of 1-2 clones getting randomly hit every time Sasuke uses Amaterasu, is greatly increased.
Because there movement gets restricted due to neighbouring clones. Not all RM clones will be able to use their hyper speed to dodge-they may simply bump into each other, since Naruto's clones aren't synchronized like Pain's paths...

I am not saying that Sasuke can look at 15 places at same time.
When I said, Sasuke could spam Amaterasu, I didn't mean that he could target every single clone! I meant he could spam Amaterasu everywhere on ground
Unlike normal fire Amaterasu never stops burning. There is no way Naruto can extinguish it.
If there is Amaterasu every few feet on the ground, it effectively takes care of large no of clones.
Because even if they so much as touch it, they will disappear even if they are RM clones.
This also cripples Naruto's hyper-speed. He can't use it if there is Amaterasu blocking his path every few feet. Or are you going to say that Naruto can still maintain his speed even if has to travel a zigzag path? o_O

All you think of Amaterasu is as a way to incinerate something you look at. And that once you dodge it, you can forget about it. It's not that simple!!
Amaterasu is one of the best techniques ever. It can not only be used for attack but also for defense.


By using SM and RM, I meant SM+RM fusion...
So at any time, for an individual clone, you can only consider one set of abilities.


No I wasn't making a direct comparison of their abilities...

Ma and Pa are strong, have super-strength, elemental Ninjutsu, their tongues have special abilities etc...
But none of it means anything, if Sasuke is flying on his hawk's back, outside their range of attack.
All of Ma and Pa's attacks-except that Sound Genjutsu-are mid-range attacks at the best. But Sasuke's Susanoo bow and arrows has a long-range attack, its attack range further increased due to height. He can attack-but they cannot. Even that sound genjutsu has got its weakness...
If Naruto uses toad bombs or the toads use dust technique, Sasuke could always use his hawks to fly and get an better idea of Naruto's movements.


Pretha Paths had a long-rod. He used stabbing attacks.
Sasuke uses a chokuto. He uses slash and cut attacks!!
There is a BIG difference between stabbing and slashing...
Unlike stabbing attacks, slashing attacks have much wider range of attack, so they are more difficult to dodge.

And about Third Raikage
In case you haven't noticed, he also uses stabbing attacks.
Though lethal it has small AoE and therefore easier to dodge
Naruto dodged Third Raikage attack at the last moment and then used his rasengan...
Now the Raikage maybe faster and stronger than Sasuke. But what you forget, while making that comparison is that Sasuke has got Sharingan unlike Raikage.
Even if Naruto makes such last moment twist, Sasuke can predict them and dodge. Having sharingan makes all that difference.

Maybe Nauto can block that blade with chakra arms. but do you realize that could also mean that Sasuke can chop off Naruto's chakra arms? Sure they can be replaced but it can be a good way to avoid Naruto FRS attack using chakra arms.

Naruto knew everything about Nagato's Rinnegan abilities, had actual experience fighting against the Rinnegan. But he still got owned by Nagato, even though it was Kabuto who was controlling him.
If B hadn't intervened he would have got soul sucked long ago...

I'm not assuming Sasuke will magically figure out Naruto's abilities.
But here again you are ignoring Sharingan's abilities-to predict movements and analyse chakra(although not on Byakugan's level)
Susanoo can always take majority of damage preventing instant knockout or kill.
Sasuke may not know what FRS is, but his sharingan lets him analyse it to get information. By just one look he will instinctively realize it to be dangerous amount of highly concentrated chakra-something he should not mess with or take lightly.


Lightning armour cannot be a KKG. It uses only lightning nature transformation
It just that it requires large amount of chakra and is difficult to perform.
How many ninja do you think can perform Naruto's FRS? Probably none.
But does it mean FRS is a KKG? Of course not! Same with LA.

Sasuke needs the LA only to keep up with Naruto's hyper-speed.
Even if he hasn't got LA, there are ways to cripple Naruto's hyper-speed.


Sasuke almost died during that attack! Do you seriously think he will make that same mistake again?
Sasuke already knows that Tsukuyomi isn't his best shot-it didn't even work on Danzo. So he won't drop his guard again when using Tsukuyomi.

And even if he doesn't know Naruto can fully control his bijuu, he knows that Naruto is a jinchuriki like B is.
His genjutsu didn't work on B, a jinchuriki. So even he used it on Naruto he won't just turn around like before.


And no, I am not sold on the idea that this is a even fight...
But you certainly seem so awed by Naruto's strength and feats if you think Naruto can pawn Sasuke just like that, means you fail to see this simple fact:
A fight is not all about raw power and speed. Skills and strategy also play an important role.
1.) Now you're just getting desperate. Name one time Naruto's clones have been out of sync and bumped into each other. I can't believe you actually just tried to use that as an argument. Naruto's never had a problem fighting with clones before. They've never restricted each other's movements, ever. And if they fight in wide open space like the battlefields we've been seeing the war take place in, what you're saying would be even more ridiculous. This isn't genin Naruto after just learning Kage Bunshin, this is S rank Naruto who can perform the technique flawlessly and has fought many intense battles using clones.

And if the Amaterasu spam you were referring to was Sasuke making an Amaterasu circle around himself. That restricts his movements more than Naruto's, you do understand that. What you're saying is like if we were on a beach and you drew a circle in the sand and stand in the middle, then you go "AHA I have restricted your movements." You definitely have but I get an entire beach to maneuver around while you have cornered yourself.

2.) Is that the best you can do with the hawk summon? You do know in Sage Mode Naruto, Ma, and Pa can jump like 200 feet in the air and Ma and Pa have tongues at least 50 feet long. Pa jumps into the air and uses Frog Screech to paralyze the hawk and Sasuke like Kabuto's white rage attack did. Ma jumps behind them and grabs the hawk's leg with her superstrong tongue and slams it into the ground, poof goes the hawk. Naruto with 40 Sage Mode clones has several Sage Art Oodoma Rasengans set up and rams them into Susano'o like he did the Kyuubi. Two RM Mode clones are sitting back with FRS's charged up and they throw them, Sasuke has no defense...game over.

Your point about Sage Mode doesn't matter. Yes, it is possible that only one clone can use it at a time, but that one clone can also make Sage Mode clones (in case you forgot his clone used clones against Third Raikage and Madara).

3.) Umm, I don't know how to break this to you but Sasuke uses stabbing attacks too, as a matter of fact the first two moves we every saw him use with his sword were stabbing attacks...one to kill Naruto and the other to attack Yamato. As for the chakra arms who says they have to grab the sword. You do remember when Edo Nagato was using Asura Path against Naruto...Bee who's a far better swordsman than Sasuke tried to attack Nagato from a blindspot with his swords and Nagato used multiple mechanical attachments to grab Bee's arms and throat. Naruto could do the exact same thing in RM Mode.

4.) Every idiot who's ever seen FRS knows it's nothing to play around with, you don't need a sharingan for that, even Chouji and Ino figured it out. The real surprise is that it can be thrown at high speeds. That was something Ma, Pa, and Pain did not know and if you think Sasuke will be able to guess that you're overhyping him big time.

5.) Why are we even having this Raiton Armor debate. Not only has Sasuke not demonstrated it on panel. Not only can you not prove it's a KKG. But Sasuke had the perfect opportunity to demonstrate the ability in this most recent fight. He was facing an opponent in Sage Mode (just like Naruto will be in) and he got completely outclassed. He was clueless about the precog. and him and Itachi got speedblitzed numerous times, one resulting in Itachi getting sliced in half with Sasuke standing there shocked and helpless. If you think after that display that (1) he is hiding some powerful technique that gives him a boost in speed and reflexes and (2) that he fought well against Sage Mode. You must be crazy or Kishi must be trolling.

6.) I understand that a fight isn't just speed and power, that should be obvious from my first post where I broke down intel and technique counters. Sasuke is just completely outclassed here and you fail to admit it. There are too many things he doesn't know about and although he can counter them in theory like you've demonstrated, on a battlefield it's just not going to happen. I don't get how you could see him almost get overwhelmed by Kabuto like that and then assume he will be fine against 15 opponents that can fight on par with Kabuto and share some of his abilities. Sasuke couldn't land one hit on SM Kabuto because of the precog. and enhanced speed. The best he could do was catch Kabuto's tail in an arrow. I understand Kabuto is much more intelligent than Naruto and has a variety of techniques but that should at least tell you something.

Naruto doesn't need bijuu mode to win. I can provide at least twenty scenarios where it's not necessary. Some of them I wrote above.

@Uchiha_Sora That wasn't exactly lightning armor just some lightning based aura just like Naruto used some weird green aura to attack. It's probably just the animation studio's creative licensing like in one of the intros were we saw Naruto use a fire release tech.

@ILIKEPIE I wasn't convinced that SM Naruto could take on EMS Sasuke until recently. Now that Kurama works with him there is nothing to prevent his fusion with Ma and Pa. So with perfect SM, Tajuu Kage Bunshin, FRS, and no time limit I'm inclined to think it would be a very good fight.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

full control or not I still can't see Naruto fusing with ma and pa and Kurama may be willing to give Naruto control but fusing with frog is something he might resist
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: Bijuu Mode Naruto vs. EMS Sasuke

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I hope not.
It was his own version. He actually looked pretty badass using it.
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