Fav, Pokemon Starters - Page 4

ILIKEPIE · 09-30-2012, 11:38 PM

in real competive battles pokemon hold items

without life orb with sword dance
252Atk +2 Blaziken (+Atk) Hi Jump Kick vs 252HP/252Def Focus Sash Damp Swampert (+Def): 83% - 99% (339 - 400 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

without life orb and sword dance
252Atk Blaziken (+Atk) Hi Jump Kick vs 252HP/252Def Focus Sash Damp Swampert (+Def): 41% - 49% (169 - 201 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

Noctis Arashi · 09-30-2012, 11:39 PM

A pokemon can go twice if the speed differential is high enough. I've done it more than a few times.

The life orb doesn't effect the chance of OHKO that much. The facts are still valid.

Also, keep in mind this is a max def. max. hp swampert.

PrinceofPeace · 09-30-2012, 11:49 PM

SO 3 hits for a k.o. right?? Well Swampert only needs one hit with Blaziken's poor defense. Earthquake or hydro cannon and the match is over

Fire/fighting attacks will barely be effective and swampert is not that slow and he has better defenseives

Where's the math of how Blaziken will take a hit?

Noctis Arashi · 09-30-2012, 11:51 PM

Like I said, max Def. max HP Swampert. No EV's for attack or SP. Attack.

Fighting type moves have standard effectiveness and Blaziken gets STAB from it.

PrinceofPeace · 09-30-2012, 11:54 PM

Better to have super-effective than standard-effective... especially when Hi-Jump Kick may miss

Noctis Arashi · 09-30-2012, 11:56 PM

Doesn't matter when Swampert most definitely dies by getting high jump kicked twice.

ILIKEPIE · 10-01-2012, 12:13 AM

in an actualy set Swampert would use ev points for attack
lowered ev's for Swampert's tank set evs 240 hp, 16 hp, and 252 attack
no items
with sword dance
252Atk +2 Blaze Blaziken (+Atk) Hi Jump Kick vs 240HP/16Def Damp Swampert (+Def): 106% - 125% (429 - 505 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
without sword dance
252Atk Blaze Blaziken (+Atk) Hi Jump Kick vs 240HP/16Def Damp Swampert (+Def): 53% - 63% (214 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Noctis Arashi · 10-01-2012, 12:15 AM

Now please explain how swampert survives being high jump kicked twice. There is no longer any pheasable way for him to survive unless you happen to be an oddball with a max def swampert, in which case, it's still likely he dies in two hits.

PrinceofPeace · 10-01-2012, 12:20 AM

@Pie- with what attack

@Noctris- Never said that he would survie it but using 2 is risky and Blaziken could crash

Swampert just needs ONE Earthquake... which RARELY misses

Noctis Arashi · 10-01-2012, 12:34 AM

And? Over 8/10 Blaziken kills Swampert. The other 1.9 times, Blaziken dies due to accuracy.

Thus, Blaziken is not only stronger than swampert, but also the other starters.

PrinceofPeace · 10-01-2012, 12:48 AM

So it is still uncertain if Blaziken would win. If he could it would be by luck/fluke and would not always happen that way

Blaziken gettin past Blastoise defense.... yeah right

Noctis Arashi · 10-01-2012, 12:59 AM

It's not uncertain. It's statistics. Blaziken would reliably win more than 8/10 times. It's not luck or fluke. It's luck or fluke if he happens to lose, due to stats being on his side.

Plus, I just calculated. Blastoise is slow enough for Blaziken to hit twice. And he gets THKO'd clean.

Actually, I calculated again, even without the two hits, he get's OHKO'd clean with a SD High Jump Kick.

PrinceofPeace · 10-01-2012, 01:03 AM

It is still not a constant win for both.

Swampert stalls with Protect

ILIKEPIE · 10-01-2012, 01:06 AM

overall against a team Blaziken is more effective having less counters after a sword dance, while swampert can be easily revenged killed by the many pokemon faster than it.

Noctis Arashi · 10-01-2012, 01:07 AM

You sealed swamperts fate. Good job protecting on a speed boost blaziken. Blaziken is even faster now. Swampert dies the next turn.

It is consistent. Over 8/10 times consistent. That's consistency. It doesn't have to be 100% to be consistent. It's more than likely that both of them will die.

In fact, it's even higher that Blastoise dies at 9/10 times.

The only way you could say Swampert would beat, or at least pose a debate on Swampert beating Blaziken, is if the ratio were lower or at 5/10. Which it is not.

ILIKEPIE · 10-01-2012, 01:18 AM

since blastoise was mentioned I'll mention Infernape vs Swampert
Infernape use speical to attack Swampert while Swampert use evs to increase phyical defense

without nasty plot
252SpAtk Iron Fist Infernape (+SAtk) Grass Knot vs 252HP/0SpDef Damp Swampert (Neutral): 89% - 104% (360 - 424 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 31% chance to OHKO.
with nasty plot or life orb it's a one hit kill

PrinceofPeace · 10-01-2012, 01:51 AM

so Earthquake is 1hko

Vocaloid · 10-01-2012, 04:42 PM

Pikachu's only a starter in the non-canon Yellow.

Blastoise.

View Poll Results: Favorite Starter
Venusaur	5	12.82%
Blastoise	8	20.51%
Charzard	20	51.28%
Pikachu	6	15.38%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

09-30-2012, 11:39 PM	#62
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters A pokemon can go twice if the speed differential is high enough. I've done it more than a few times. The life orb doesn't effect the chance of OHKO that much. The facts are still valid. Also, keep in mind this is a max def. max. hp swampert. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

09-30-2012, 11:49 PM	#63
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,363 Rep Power: 8	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters SO 3 hits for a k.o. right?? Well Swampert only needs one hit with Blaziken's poor defense. Earthquake or hydro cannon and the match is over Fire/fighting attacks will barely be effective and swampert is not that slow and he has better defenseives Where's the math of how Blaziken will take a hit? __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-30-2012, 11:51 PM	#64
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters Like I said, max Def. max HP Swampert. No EV's for attack or SP. Attack. Fighting type moves have standard effectiveness and Blaziken gets STAB from it. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

09-30-2012, 11:54 PM	#65
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,363 Rep Power: 8	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters Better to have super-effective than standard-effective... especially when Hi-Jump Kick may miss __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-30-2012, 11:56 PM	#66
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters Doesn't matter when Swampert most definitely dies by getting high jump kicked twice. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

10-01-2012, 12:15 AM	#68
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters Now please explain how swampert survives being high jump kicked twice. There is no longer any pheasable way for him to survive unless you happen to be an oddball with a max def swampert, in which case, it's still likely he dies in two hits. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

10-01-2012, 12:20 AM	#69
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,363 Rep Power: 8	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters @Pie- with what attack @Noctris- Never said that he would survie it but using 2 is risky and Blaziken could crash Swampert just needs ONE Earthquake... which RARELY misses __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2012, 12:34 AM	#70
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters And? Over 8/10 Blaziken kills Swampert. The other 1.9 times, Blaziken dies due to accuracy. Thus, Blaziken is not only stronger than swampert, but also the other starters. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

10-01-2012, 12:48 AM	#71
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,363 Rep Power: 8	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters So it is still uncertain if Blaziken would win. If he could it would be by luck/fluke and would not always happen that way Blaziken gettin past Blastoise defense.... yeah right __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2012, 12:59 AM	#72
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters It's not uncertain. It's statistics. Blaziken would reliably win more than 8/10 times. It's not luck or fluke. It's luck or fluke if he happens to lose, due to stats being on his side. Plus, I just calculated. Blastoise is slow enough for Blaziken to hit twice. And he gets THKO'd clean. Actually, I calculated again, even without the two hits, he get's OHKO'd clean with a SD High Jump Kick. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

10-01-2012, 01:03 AM	#73
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,363 Rep Power: 8	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters It is still not a constant win for both. Swampert stalls with Protect __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2012, 01:07 AM	#75
Noctis Arashi is rapidly losing blood from Naijeru's jugular attack Formerly Susanoo Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Transcendent of Space. Denizen of Fate. Posts: 24,184 Rep Power: 27 Member's Picture Albums	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters You sealed swamperts fate. Good job protecting on a speed boost blaziken. Blaziken is even faster now. Swampert dies the next turn. It is consistent. Over 8/10 times consistent. That's consistency. It doesn't have to be 100% to be consistent. It's more than likely that both of them will die. In fact, it's even higher that Blastoise dies at 9/10 times. The only way you could say Swampert would beat, or at least pose a debate on Swampert beating Blaziken, is if the ratio were lower or at 5/10. Which it is not. __________________ ~~ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ~~ "Memento Mori" ______________ Feel free to PM me if you need help with anything.

10-01-2012, 01:51 AM	#77
PrinceofPeace Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Village Hidden in the SUMMIT Posts: 14,363 Rep Power: 8	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters so Earthquake is 1hko __________________ NaruHina FOREVER(unless Naruto dies with Saskue which I approve) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Life doesn't play fair... So neither do I Don't worry be Happy now To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

10-01-2012, 04:42 PM	#78
Vocaloid Special Jonin Candidate Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: In Gamelon after seizing the island of Koridai Posts: 6,246 Rep Power: 12	Re: Fav, Pokemon Starters Pikachu's only a starter in the non-canon Yellow. Blastoise. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)