Naruto vs Luffy

[Vashe]

quantified feat is always better than unquantified ones unless the difference is so overwhelmingly obvious... i don't like unquantified feats because it is unusable in battle threads generally...
if its like FTL vs mach 10000... then yeah i'd side with FTL even if it has no quantified number since even lowballing it would still put it above mach 10000... but if its unquantified FTL vs 100x FTL... i would side with the one with a number... until the no-number proves it has a larger one (by being quantified)... i dunno if i made any sense there... LOL

[321zigzag3]

It is better but you must know most quantified feats are likely subject to some type of error.

These are manga authors are imperfect after all.

If you use them in a singleverse matchup quanitifying isn't really that necessary.

This is why vs matches can very speculatory.

We won't always know the true answer. Some people even reject vs fights across different universes saying we don't if boths powers can be applied or would even work on each other or what if different laws of physics. etc etc etc.

Anyway..........for the FTL thing that I don't even go which FTL speed is even higher.

Be prepared to branch off if necessary like for example.

A. If this is much faster then speedblitz.
B. if speed equal this wins so on and so forth.

[Vashe]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

It is better but you must know most quantified feats are likely subject to some type of error.

These are manga authors are imperfect after all.

If you use them in a singleverse matchup quanitifying isn't really that necessary.

This is why vs matches can very speculatory.

We won't always know the true answer. Some people even reject vs fights across different universes saying we don't if boths powers can be applied or would even work on each other or what if different laws of physics. etc etc etc.

Anyway..........for the FTL thing that I don't even go which FTL speed is even higher.

Be prepared to branch off if necessary like for example.

A. If this is much faster then speedblitz.
B. if speed equal this wins so on and so forth.

yeah i get what you mean... but we can't resort to speculation... to some degree we always resort to some sort of quantification... FTL>>>lightspeed>>>nearlightspeed>>>relativistic>> >massively hypersonic>>>hypersonic>>>>supersonic>>>>sonic>>>> sub-sonic... the number may not be exact but we all know that a vague unquantified quality has a marginal limit that puts it above something else... a totally unknown quality is totally unusable... if someone says character X beats the flash... and character X has unknown speed, when asked for proof of how he beats the flash, he will get debunked...
as for the people who reject multi-verse match-ups, i would suggest to them to not participate in those kinds of threads...

[Ultimate combatant]

I`m still rather skeptic about One Piece speeds. I don`t know about Dragon, Gol D. Roger and the others, but Luffy`s speed is not that impressive, in my opinion. The only thing I noticed about his speed is that he is the much much faster than bullets and that he can easily dodge Pacifista laser. Now, the question is, how fast that is. Also, we can`t just conclude that bullets have the same speed as modern day rifles or that lasers have speed of ourverse lasers!!!

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Sora

I don't think Naruto would go full kyuubi though. That would put everyone else in danger. Same thing with ST/CT/Meteors. Or even Kakuzu's hugeass fire/wind releases. He'd probably go into RM or that upgraded RM with a hokage style cloak.

He could probably take a few attacks, but I don't see him taking haki reinforced ones too cleanly.

Or even pound cannons from Zoro. Now he can do his PTS max 360 pound cannon with one hand, and shot it through a hugeass fish while underwater. I'd love to see what he can do with all three swords now.

Doubtful bro for one the transformation is not dependent on just Naruto. It involves kurama. Who in fact can release the power anytime he chooses. His tranformations into the fox never takes that much time anyways. That last chapter was a plot drama transformation.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by Vashe

yeah i get what you mean... but we can't resort to speculation... to some degree we always resort to some sort of quantification... FTL>>>lightspeed>>>nearlightspeed>>>relativistic>> >massively hypersonic>>>hypersonic>>>>supersonic>>>>sonic>>>> sub-sonic... the number may not be exact but we all know that a vague unquantified quality has a marginal limit that puts it above something else... a totally unknown quality is totally unusable... if someone says character X beats the flash... and character X has unknown speed, when asked for proof of how he beats the flash, he will get debunked...
as for the people who reject multi-verse match-ups, i would suggest to them to not participate in those kinds of threads...

Of course we especially for Multiverse matches otherwise we have harder time of comparing.

As for those who reject them well their logic makes perfect sense if you look it that point of view, yet at the same time it has an inherent flaw.

Do you know what I am referring to? Good sir.

Originally Posted by Ultimate combatant

I`m still rather skeptic about One Piece speeds. I don`t know about Dragon, Gol D. Roger and the others, but Luffy`s speed is not that impressive, in my opinion. The only thing I noticed about his speed is that he is the much much faster than bullets and that he can easily dodge Pacifista laser. Now, the question is, how fast that is. Also, we can`t just conclude that bullets have the same speed as modern day rifles or that lasers have speed of ourverse lasers!!!

Well they blitz bullet timers users thats a lot.

As for our bullets well more likely not necessarily always our speed but still it doesn't make a huge difference.

As for lasers, fictional lasers will always be much slower, well usually not always.

[Devils Lawyer]

I like that physics point zig made. The fact remains no verse is the same. For one op bullet times but the fact remains they actually can't maintain that speed. If that was the case they would have no need for ships and their travel speed would be massive. The speed thrown in manga is mostly for effects. Only comics is really good for speed debates. The rest is heavily subjective and highly opionated.

[321zigzag3]

This is why many distinguish COmbat speed from Travel speed with good reason.

Even most comic book speedsters are not exempt from this for combat speed and travel are different.

People do it bursts or just in combat.

Here is a better example.

Look at Albert Wesker and how he uses his speed. See my point ladies and gentlemen?

[Devils Lawyer]

But you will get a hardcore group who will downplay that immediately if you bring it up in a debate. Anothet good example is Luffy at Enies lobby and whitebeard.

[321zigzag3]

What do you mean hardcore group downplaying it? Example?

Is Enies Lobby the one with the flood?

Whitebeard I understand when Luffy was running up to Ace.

Although at the same time he was in Gear 2 against Mihawk.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

Of course we especially for Multiverse matches otherwise we have harder time of comparing.

As for those who reject them well their logic makes perfect sense if you look it that point of view, yet at the same time it has an inherent flaw.

Do you know what I am referring to? Good sir.



Well they blitz bullet timers users thats a lot.

As for our bullets well more likely not necessarily always our speed but still it doesn't make a huge difference.

As for lasers, fictional lasers will always be much slower, well usually not always.

The funny thing about lasers is if you see them firing you should already be dead.

I forgot the Star Trek episode where there was time distortions and a Kirk(?)saw everythign thing in slow-mo. Some how he or his opponent avoided a phaser.

I think this was done again(Generations?), but here the start of the phasers activation was weak, so you could see it hit you but move to avoid the pulse buildup that would kill you.

So I always take laser dodging as moving to avoid the power buildup.
Actually, pretty close to how a high power laser would actually work, not that any real human could use that time to do anything.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by Wooster

The funny thing about lasers is if you see them firing you should already be dead.

I forgot the Star Trek episode where there was time distortions and a Kirk(?)saw everythign thing in slow-mo. Some how he or his opponent avoided a phaser.

I think this was done again(Generations?), but here the start of the phasers activation was weak, so you could see it hit you but move to avoid the pulse buildup that would kill you.

So I always take laser dodging as moving to avoid the power buildup.
Actually, pretty close to how a high power laser would actually work, not that any real human could use that time to do anything.

this is all that is needed.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

this is all that is needed.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Yep, if Han didn't shoot first. It would mean he is only alive because Greedo missed him.

Of course, I hae no clue why Greedo would want to kill Han when Jabba wanted money from him. Seems a poor way to collect.

[321zigzag3]

What I am more curious is why George Lucas wanted it changed so Greedo shot and missed first. It makes the scene look retarded.

[Wooster]

Because he wanted to give nobility to Han,i.e. he would never kill anyone unprovoked?

[Nightmare Luffy]

I guess its hard for the Naruto haters to accept Naruto being basicaly proven stronger now but I understand

[Towerworld]

Possible speed feat for New naruto as well, he caught 7 tails before he could react from cloud level.

[Cult of Personality]

I vote for Luffy because unlike Naruto he's a good person and the good guys always win. Well known fact.

[Devils Lawyer]

Originally Posted by 321zigzag3

What do you mean hardcore group downplaying it? Example?

Is Enies Lobby the one with the flood?

Whitebeard I understand when Luffy was running up to Ace.

Although at the same time he was in Gear 2 against Mihawk.

Any individual that worship speed feats would instantly get offensive about suggesting they can't maintain that speed. Me personally I think travel speed is more useful than combat speed. Combat speed you are focusing on certain muscles and mainly is a display of power more than speed.

[321zigzag3]

Originally Posted by Devils Lawyer

Any individual that worship speed feats would instantly get offensive about suggesting they can't maintain that speed. Me personally I think travel speed is more useful than combat speed. Combat speed you are focusing on certain muscles and mainly is a display of power more than speed.

And this is why Silver Surfer is considered equal to Frieza in Vs forum because his combat speed is apparently alot more inconsistent.