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Old 01-11-2012, 08:06 AM   #1
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Default The Iranian War

Bet you didn't know, but it is being waged right now.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/co...already-begun/

Pretty unlikely that Obama is doing this, more likely to be Mossad.

Is this a good or bad? Will this keep nukes out of Iranian hands? Do you think Ron Paul opposes this?(Duh, of course he does. )
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Iranian War

Wait isn't this terrorism? What would call that if American citizens (scientist, politician, or otherwise) were being taken out by car bombs?
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Iranian War

If it were individuals, I call it assination, which is what this is. You know, standard things you do during war.

But you will have to bring that up with you good friends the Israelis because it is no doubt their doing.

Really this won't work. Full war is the way to stop this.
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Old 01-12-2012, 04:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Iranian War

Oh yes, it sure is better to kill of individuals to save a few American and British soldiers it'd take to negotiate a cease of arms creation.
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Iranian War

Yes, much better to let a nuclear arms race start in the Middle East.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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Yes, much better to let a nuclear arms race start in the Middle East.
Pakistan, India, Turkey, and Israel all of have nukes.

List of soon to be or nuclear powered states in/near the Middle East or Central Asia:

India
Pakistan
Iran
Israel
Kazakhstan
UAE

And don't make me post a list of those states which are not our allies or are directly opposed to us that have nuclear power or weaponry.

Why are we so scared of a country that compared to us is so weak? They have no capacity at all to ever attack us on our own soil. Where did the days go when we used to be scared of real threats like the SU?
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:10 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Iranian War

That's exactly what people said about Hitler's Germany.
Turkey has US nukes deployed in it's country, but does not have nukes itself.
Kazakhastan? UAE? Now you are just spouting nonsense.

And you fail to understand what I said. I said a nuclear arms race i.e. Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Jordan vs. Syria and Iran. That will invetiably lead to an actual war drawing in Russia, China, Israel, and of course, eventually us. Say hello to World War 4.

MAD is a delicate balance of sane individuals, which was a horrible system to begin with. Give them to terrorist, religious fanatics, and tinpot states, and nukes will be going off right and left. But I am sure your extreme pacifism will win out; it did before WW 2.

PEACE IN OUR TIME
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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That's exactly what people said about Hitler's Germany.
Turkey has US nukes deployed in it's country, but does not have nukes itself.
Kazakhastan? UAE? Now you are just spouting nonsense.

And you fail to understand what I said. I said a nuclear arms race i.e. Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Jordan vs. Syria and Iran. That will invetiably lead to an actual war drawing in Russia, China, Israel, and of course, eventually us. Say hello to World War 4.

MAD is a delicate balance of sane individuals, which was a horrible system to begin with. Give them to terrorist, religious fanatics, and tinpot states, and nukes will be going off right and left. But I am sure your extreme pacifism will win out; it did before WW 2.

PEACE IN OUR TIME
Same thing people said about Hitler? Iran has no where near the natural resources, infrastructure, or economic power it would need to become a major player. As it stands it has a weak and not very loyal military force. So much so it has created a second military just to keep the first one in check. It is incomparable to Germany.

I am in the damn military. Don't try to spin me off as some pacifist. That's down right deceitful.

What people have said was that Pakistan getting nukes would lead to an all out war. And they said that with North Korea as well. It has yet to happen bud. You know which country realistically poses the greatest nuclear threat to us? Russia. If they had the interest they could give them to anyone who wanted to strike at us. Plus they have tons of unguarded nukes just sitting where they were last stationed at the end of the Cold War.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:08 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Iranian War

the biggest Danger of Iran getting nukes is them hocking it off to terrorist and letting them do their thing yes?

as for this: I see nothing wrong with doing anything within Americas power as the current hyperpower to prevent the rise of another violent religiously oppressive hyper racist nation as a major world power this is what happened in the build up to the second world war with Imperial Japan (minus nukes) there's no reason not to use cold war style tactics like this to stop it

I mean really.. if it this was while say The British Empire, or France or Spain or The Mongols or hell even The Romans ran the show you know they'd of sent an army over there and just flat out wiped a city or two off the map to send a message.

The US is acting discretely compared to it's historical peers and it's doing something that's necessary while sad and unfortunate to prevent the rise of something worse.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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the biggest Danger of Iran getting nukes is them hocking it off to terrorist and letting them do their thing yes?

as for this: I see nothing wrong with doing anything within Americas power as the current hyperpower to prevent the rise of another violent religiously oppressive hyper racist nation as a major world power this is what happened in the build up to the second world war with Imperial Japan (minus nukes) there's no reason not to use cold war style tactics like this to stop it

I mean really.. if it this was while say The British Empire, or France or Spain or The Mongols or hell even The Romans ran the show you know they'd of sent an army over there and just flat out wiped a city or two off the map to send a message.

The US is acting discretely compared to it's historical peers and it's doing something that's necessary while sad and unfortunate to prevent the rise of something worse.
Notice how all of them are no longer great nations, some not even nations period.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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Notice how all of them are no longer great nations, some not even nations period.
The same could be said of Melos, except it ceased to exist. So much for being neutral.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:06 PM   #12
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The same could be said of Melos, except it ceased to exist. So much for being neutral.
Remaining neutral and not being able to defend yourself against threats are two different things. In this day and age there are very few countries who can defend themselves from us, not the other way around.

If any country demanded tribute from our gov't and tax payers that would be a reason to go to war. Especially since they didn't start the fight.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Iranian War

That is what Melos did, and they lost. Badly.

Isolationism leads to a weak military. There is no exception.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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That is what Melos did, and they lost. Badly.

Isolationism leads to a weak military. There is no exception.
We would be more safe with Ron Paul's plan. Instead of having 900 bases over seas, they would be here on our own shores ready to defend our country. It is more cost effective and more effective period.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:26 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Iranian War

Yes, because it wouldn't be more efficient to have bases all over the world that could respond at a moment's notice.

Paul wants to return to the time of 1800's "Fortress America", but he seems to not realize that the British Empire no longer exists. I suppose that's where his reactionary protectionist policies come in. I have an idea for him. The US should move to the moon. Be even easier to isolate ourselves from the rest of humanity.
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Old 01-22-2012, 02:47 PM   #16
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Yes, because it wouldn't be more efficient to have bases all over the world that could respond at a moment's notice.

Paul wants to return to the time of 1800's "Fortress America", but he seems to not realize that the British Empire no longer exists. I suppose that's where his reactionary protectionist policies come in. I have an idea for him. The US should move to the moon. Be even easier to isolate ourselves from the rest of humanity.
Give me a scenario where we will need to have bases all over the world in order to defend the continental US. Our bases are over there to defend other countries. They are there for offensive purposes.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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Notice how all of them are no longer great nations, some not even nations period.

I know right? I mean it's totally their aggressive actions to assure national security and their own interests ,lead to their collapse..and not things like a massive infestation of corruption over many generations or them being too small to control such a huge territory (and even then the Mongols merely changed shape they hardly collapsed) or hey I mean a large scale military response..was what broke Rome or the BE? oh wait no it didn't it. It broke Spain but even when she declines for a great deal of other reasons.

in all things though a weakening of their military followed by more ignoring things beyond their borders or merely throwing money or aid at the problem hoping it would go away..definitely hastened their decline

Rome tried talking to terrorists..then it was delt a cup de gras more or less

I mean I understand where your coming from but I believe that doing what your doing is the equivelent of tossing a wounded mammoth into a den of Wolves

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Old 01-23-2012, 08:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Iranian War

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Give me a scenario where we will need to have bases all over the world in order to defend the continental US. Our bases are over there to defend other countries. They are there for offensive purposes.
Missile defense.

That was easy.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:09 PM   #19
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I know right? I mean it's totally their aggressive actions to assure national security and their own interests ,lead to their collapse..and not things like a massive infestation of corruption over many generations or them being too small to control such a huge territory (and even then the Mongols merely changed shape they hardly collapsed) or hey I mean a large scale military response..was what broke Rome or the BE? oh wait no it didn't it. It broke Spain but even when she declines for a great deal of other reasons.

in all things though a weakening of their military followed by more ignoring things beyond their borders or merely throwing money or aid at the problem hoping it would go away..definitely hastened their decline

Rome tried talking to terrorists..then it was delt a cup de gras more or less

I mean I understand where your coming from but I believe that doing what your doing is the equivelent of tossing a wounded mammoth into a den of Wolves
Ever heard of Black Water? Do some research.

And yes it was there over aggression. They spread themselves too thin, recruited from indigenous tribes for military, support, and attempted to run half of the world. Rome was great at invading and killing. Even at forcing the local people to assimilate to Roman culture to an extent. But ultimately it was people living within the Empire's "borders" that tore the nation apart.

If you think for half a second we aren't buying support in Afghanistan and Iraq you are blatantly wrong. There is more corruption going in those two countries than any where else in our gov't. If you don't think our foreign aid is an attempt at buying support from traitorous countries like Pakistan, you are wrong.

I have one question for you. As an active duty member of the US military why the hell would you ask me to risk my life to fight for Germans and Europeans who don't send their own people to fight wars and don't contribute financially?
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Missile defense.

That was easy.
So our 700 bases overseas are missile defense bases? Also look up the AEGIS missile defense system. Who knew our ships could be used to shoot down missiles?
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:33 PM   #20
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Ever heard of Black Water? Do some research.
Man I was so hoping you'd go with the British East India Company instead you went with Black Water...fine current events and all

a few bad examples don't invalidate the premise

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Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
And yes it was there over aggression. They spread themselves too thin, recruited from indigenous tribes for military, support, and attempted to run half of the world. Rome was great at invading and killing. Even at forcing the local people to assimilate to Roman culture to an extent. But ultimately it was people living within the Empire's "borders" that tore the nation apart.
and You think it was all the military and it's generals fault? they had a myriad of personal internal problems that is a massive over simplification


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
If you think for half a second we aren't buying support in Afghanistan and Iraq you are blatantly wrong. There is more corruption going in those two countries than any where else in our gov't. If you don't think our foreign aid is an attempt at buying support from traitorous countries like Pakistan, you are wrong.
wait, you're under the belief I'm in favor of this mess? that I'm in favor of foreign aid an such things? that playing politics with a bunch of crazed, racist religious zealots at the cost of our economic stability is my idea of a good thing?

oh no not at all in fact my response would have been..something else entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post

I have one question for you. As an active duty member of the US military why the hell would you ask me to risk my life to fight for Germans and Europeans who don't send their own people to fight wars and don't contribute financially
?

You should not die for Europeans your life should not be put on the line so a culture of elitist hypocrites who spent thousands of years raping and murdering their way around the world willy nilly..can sit back and criticize and defame you..no, you shouldn't be doing anything on their behalf. As Far as I'm concerned the lot of them aren't worth your spit much less your life.

That being said I'd rather have you there..especially during the current economic crisis..as a reminder to what awaits them should they decide to vent their frustrations on the rest of the world as they've done so many times in the past.

and yeah sure..protecting American interests in that area applies too

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamabunta View Post
So our 700 bases overseas are missile defense bases? Also look up the AEGIS missile defense system. Who knew our ships could be used to shoot down missiles?

hey if they revive project Orion if we get GOD sats that can flatten any resistance from orbit anywhere...I'll be on your side the next time this debate comes up.

but as it stands now? The Alternative seems to be more damaging.
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